funny question

[ej]

I think the answer is obvious, I'm not sure why nobody's mentioned it yet, so please correct me if I'm being out of line...

It concerns the cranial nerves. Eating concerns vision, smell, taste, and complicated sensorimotor function. It isn't a simple 'knee jerk' function.

Eating and breathing take place from the head because they need to be close to the brain.

(oh, and if you want an example of 'poor design' - the recurrent laryngeal nerves can be a real bother.)

 

[ej]

having a mouth in your head, (and a crossing windpipe and foodpipe) is indicative of either an idiot designer, or a blind process which just selects for whatever happens to be the most successful at the time.

I disagree. They both need to be near the brain, and there is an epiglottis to stop you choking. You choke if you (in some way) interrupt your body's defense against it.

There are lots of other examples of bad design, such as our knees,

Human knees last 50-100 years, depending on how much weight and strain is put through them. A prosthetic arthroplast lasts anything up to 15 years. Man cannot create a better one, so I would personally not call ours a 'bad design.'

Overweight people have a much higher incidence of osteoarthritis. That isn't a design flaw, it's misuse of the knee. Similarly, sports injuries... it takes a LOT of trauma to disrupt ligaments - chances are that the knee was being misused.

the shape of the appendix,

Vestigial organ... helps you out in your evolution arguments

the coccyx, the extensor coccyxis,

as above...

 

[Philosoft]

I think the answer is obvious, I'm not sure why nobody's mentioned it yet, so please correct me if I'm being out of line...

It concerns the cranial nerves. Eating concerns vision, smell, taste, and complicated sensorimotor function. It isn't a simple 'knee jerk' function.

Eating and breathing take place from the head because they need to be close to the brain.

This is an interesting idea. Perhaps the functions currently handled by multiple cranial nerves were, in very old ancestral mammals, handled by significantly fewer nerves. Smell and taste are closely related, so having these organs nearby might be more efficient.

 

[Philosoft]

I disagree. They both need to be near the brain, and there is an epiglottis to stop you choking. You choke if you (in some way) interrupt your body's defense against it.

But they hardly need to share tissue do they?

Human knees last 50-100 years, depending on how much weight and strain is put through them. A prosthetic arthroplast lasts anything up to 15 years. Man cannot create a better one, so I would personally not call ours a 'bad design.'

But it's quite obviously a modified design.

Overweight people have a much higher incidence of osteoarthritis. That isn't a design flaw, it's misuse of the knee. Similarly, sports injuries... it takes a LOT of trauma to disrupt ligaments - chances are that the knee was being misused.

I don't know. Some people tear ACLs rather easily. Trust me, I'm on my third. Also, women have ACL tears at two or three times the rate as men.

 

[LorentzHA]

Emmajane-

Good points but I also think gravity plays a part where the food starts out and where it exits. Funny thing about choking..I have seen it all too often, the sad ones are the kids. I know of a boy who died eating a large marsh-mallow.

 

[ej]

Emmajane-

Good points but I also think gravity plays a part where the food starts out and where it exits. Funny thing about choking..I have seen it all too often, the sad ones are the kids. I know of a boy who died eating a large marsh-mallow.

Nice theory, but try standing on your head and eating an apple - it goes down by peristalsis not gravity. And the gut is over 3 metres long, it's not all down-the-way.

Tragically, I know people who have died through choking too. I've seen them die . If you do something as simple as speak or cough whilst food is going down, you can disrupt the protective mechanism. Bad design?

 

[ej]

But they hardly need to share tissue do they?

Yes, they do.
I don't want to lecture you on head-and-neck anatomy. But hold your nose and swallow. You'll realise that ears, nose and throat are all linked.

There are surgical interventions (eg PEG feeding into the stomach, tracheostomy) whereby the two tubes do not 'share tissue' but these are not ideal either.

But it's quite obviously a modified design.

The knee prosthesis? Well, it's designed to perform the function of your own knee...

I don't know. Some people tear ACLs rather easily. Trust me, I'm on my third. Also, women have ACL tears at two or three times the rate as men.

I'm not here to talk about your ACL, but I'm fully aware that it takes a heck of a lot of strain to break your original one (and that this can be avoided with careful athletic coaching). Your new one is probably either cadaveric tendo-achilles, your own hamstring or patellar tendon. These aren't as good as the original.

The increased incidence in women has been shown to have nothing to do with the knee, but is due to the fact that womens' hips are further apart (and hence generally more dynamic) than mens.'

(why am I talking about knees? ugh! )

 

[Philosoft]

Yes, they do.
I don't want to lecture you on head-and-neck anatomy. But hold your nose and swallow. You'll realise that ears, nose and throat are all linked.

I'm aware of the current state-of-cranial-affairs. My point is that there is no a priori reason why the two tubes should share tissue.

The knee prosthesis? Well, it's designed to perform the function of your own knee...

No, the knee itself. It's not an ideal bipedal joint.

I'm not here to talk about your ACL, but I'm fully aware that it takes a heck of a lot of strain to break your original one (and that this can be avoided with careful athletic coaching).

The requisite amount of strain can be quite easily applied by landing on someone else's foot awkwardly. Trust me.

Your new one is probably either cadaveric tendo-achilles, your own hamstring or patellar tendon. These aren't as good as the original.

I have a patellar tendon and a quadriceps tendon. Both, I am told, are about 90% of the strength of the original.

The increased incidence in women has been shown to have nothing to do with the knee, but is due to the fact that womens' hips are further apart (and hence generally more dynamic) than mens.'

May I see a reference for this?

 

[ej]

The requisite amount of strain can be quite easily applied by landing on someone else's foot awkwardly. Trust me.
I have a patellar tendon and a quadriceps tendon. Both, I am told, are about 90% of the strength of the original.
May I see a reference for this?

Do a Pubmed search
(knee research isn't the topic of the thread, but do a search and you'll find evidence for the above. I was registrar to JFK for 1 year, you'll find tons of his work online)

 

[Jet Black]

I disagree. They both need to be near the brain, and there is an epiglottis to stop you choking. You choke if you (in some way) interrupt your body's defense against it.

but they do not need to be the same pipe at all.

Human knees last 50-100 years, depending on how much weight and strain is put through them. A prosthetic arthroplast lasts anything up to 15 years. Man cannot create a better one, so I would personally not call ours a 'bad design.'

It's a bad design because they would be better the other way round. or so I have read at any rate.

Vestigial organ... helps you out in your evolution arguments

not only vestigial, but a nasty shape for catching bacteria.

as above...

for the coccyx, yes. the extensor coccyxis is however, completely useless. I hear we have another muscle somewhere that is only connected at one end, but I am no expert in anatomy.

 

[ej]

but they do not need to be the same pipe at all.

They do. Babies with blocked noses or congenital absence of airways cannot feed, as sucking (at a nipple or teat) requires both an airway and an oesophagus. Patients with a tracheostomy have difficulty swallowing, and many are fed by a tube into the stomach.

Re: knees...It's a bad design because they would be better the other way round. or so I have read at any rate.

I haven't heard this but I'll research it

for the coccyx, yes. the extensor coccyxis is however, completely useless. I hear we have another muscle somewhere that is only connected at one end, but I am no expert in anatomy.

You don't need to be an expert. Suffice to say there are lots of bits of our body that we can survive without. That doesn't suggest to me that we are designed badly, but that we are on an evolutionary route.

 

[Data]

They do. Babies with blocked noses or congenital absence of airways cannot feed, as sucking (at a nipple or teat) requires both an airway and an oesophagus. Patients with a tracheostomy have difficulty swallowing, and many are fed by a tube into the stomach.

Which would be related to the reduction in use of the nose for breathing. They don't need to be connected but you would have to change some other things around too.

 

[ej]

Which would be related to the reduction in use of the nose for breathing. They don't need to be connected but you would have to change some other things around too.

You can't suck with your oesophagus.

They need to be connected.

 

[Data]

You can't suck with your oesophagus.

They need to be connected.

Ack! You're right! Didn't read it properly..

Sorry about that

 

[LorentzHA]

Nice theory, but try standing on your head and eating an apple - it goes down by peristalsis not gravity. And the gut is over 3 metres long, it's not all down-the-way.

Tragically, I know people who have died through choking too. I've seen them die . If you do something as simple as speak or cough whilst food is going down, you can disrupt the protective mechanism. Bad design?

Yes, I am familiar with the sizes of the large AND small intestine. I have dissected more than my share of cadavers.

Gravity does play a large part in many of our body functions and wiithout it things detoriorate RAPIDLY (bones muscles etc.) Yes, peristalsis is a factor but after a surgery etc. that is stunted for a while. Please do not try to stand on your head and eat that apple, I sincerely do not want you to be the next choking victim. It is not a case of "one thing" systems function with each other and with properties of this planet. As far as the mouth being near the brain for eating and breathing since they are crucial really does not make too much sense since if that were the case of importance of function the Heart would sit closer than it does. Nerve cells are the longest in the body some can be over a meter long. They fire VERY rapidly so distance is not a factor. You can think about moving your foot and then do it in WAY under a second.

 

[Jet Black]

Nerve cells are the longest in the body some can be over a meter long.

oh I forgot about nerves, isn't theer one that goes from the head, under the arteried in the heart, and then back up to the larynx again, even in giraffes? and that reminds me of testicular plumbing, which seems to be proof in one piece of piping that either God is having a laugh, or ID is false.

 

[Jet Black]

They do. Babies with blocked noses or congenital absence of airways cannot feed, as sucking (at a nipple or teat) requires both an airway and an oesophagus. Patients with a tracheostomy have difficulty swallowing,

oh I am not saying that any alterations would not require a radical system redesign. everything is pretty much plugged together now. If however one was designing a lifeform from scratch, odds are one could do it better.

You don't need to be an expert. Suffice to say there are lots of bits of our body that we can survive without. That doesn't suggest to me that we are designed badly, but that we are on an evolutionary route.

well as I mentioned in the previous post, the vagus nerve (is it, or the laryngeal nerve, I can't remember now) is a corker, and the way testicles are plumbed in leaves something to be desired too, and also the vertebral discs.

what is your opinion on it all though ID or evolution?

 

[ej]

Yes, I am familiar with the sizes of the large AND small intestine. I have dissected more than my share of cadavers.

Gravity does play a large part in many of our body functions and wiithout it things detoriorate RAPIDLY (bones muscles etc.) Yes, peristalsis is a factor but after a surgery etc. that is stunted for a while. Please do not try to stand on your head and eat that apple, I sincerely do not want you to be the next choking victim. It is not a case of "one thing" systems function with each other and with properties of this planet. As far as the mouth being near the brain for eating and breathing since they are crucial really does not make too much sense since if that were the case of importance of function the Heart would sit closer than it does. Nerve cells are the longest in the body some can be over a meter long. They fire VERY rapidly so distance is not a factor. You can think about moving your foot and then do it in WAY under a second.

LOL I know how nerve cells work.

I also know how gravity works - are you thinking about resistance, and atrophy of muscle in astronauts?

I am fully aware of cardiac innervation. I disagree that the heart should be closer to the brain. The vagus is well protected on its course; the heart is well protected within the ribcage; the heart is fairly central in the body; the heart receives innervation from spinal nerves as well as its tenth cranial nerve supply.

Breathing and eating use cranial nerves I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, IX, X, XI, and XII. I imagine one could involve the vesibulocochlear nerve too if they used some imagination.

As I postulated previously, these functions of the head and neck are so complex that their innervation is both delicate and complicated. This is my theory as to why we have a mouth in our head. Refute my theory by all means, but don't try to re-invent anatomy.

 

[ej]

Yes, peristalsis is a factor but after a surgery etc. that is stunted for a while

Paralytic ileus.

It can't be overcome by gravity, sadly.
We have to wait for the peristaltic function to return (in a nutshell - that's not all we do )

 

[ej]

Please do not try to stand on your head and eat that apple, I sincerely do not want you to be the next choking victim.

LOL thanks for the concern... I did this many times as a young child, I was fascinated by the human body. I have never choked, so don't you worry about me