Fundamentalism and Intellectualism

[mpok1519]

If they'd just keep it to themselves, I wouldn't care what they thought about science, logic, and reason... but no, they insist upon indoctrinating their children as well and see it as an act of love. It's kind of scary to live in a country where ignorance and irrationality are seen as virtues :/

and its harmful and unhealthy behavior, sadly.

I've heard it stated explicitly by fundamentalists that "reason is the enemy of faith" and "logic is the Devil's tool." I even bought into that for a while... I seriously thought logic and reason were evil whenever they went against the Bible. It just goes to show how far people will go to keep their fairy tales alive :/

it really is disturbing and scary.

I think its psychological/personal trauma.

 

[AV1611VET]

and its harmful and unhealthy behavior, sadly.



it really is disturbing and scary.

I think its psychological/personal trauma.

I started to say, "that's probably why you're not a psychiatrist"; then realized you would probably make a good one.

 

[mpok1519]

Doesn't sound like professionals I would want to go to.

Ask them the next time if they know what psychoheresy is, and if they know the Bobgans?

(Don't tell them their first names [Martin and Diedre], they should know them already. They're probably the most feared [hated] couple today.)

Anyway, as I was saying, doesn't sound like professionals I would want to go to, if that's their opinion of fundamentalists.

Speaking of "opinions" --- can you tell me how they're taught to score people who see Christian symbols in the Rorschach Test?Unless they offer their services for free, would you be willing to foot the bill, so you can help a poor fundamentalist get "help"?

sigh.

usually one needs to hep their self before others can help them.

and no, I dont particularily care to discuss psychoheresy if it will ultimately have no purpose other than to entertain another fundamentalist notion of 'logic'.

 

[mpok1519]

I started to say, "that's probably why you're not a psychiatrist"; then realized you would probably make a good one.

more sighs.

 

[Hespera]

gaara sez.....If they'd just keep it to themselves, I wouldn't care what they thought about science, logic, and reason... but no, they insist upon indoctrinating their children as well and see it as an act of love. It's kind of scary to live in a country where ignorance and irrationality are seen as virtues :/

I've heard it stated explicitly by fundamentalists that "reason is the enemy of faith" and "logic is the Devil's tool." I even bought into that for a while... I seriously thought logic and reason were evil whenever they went against the Bible. It just goes to show how far people will go to keep their fairy tales alive :/ __________________QUOTE////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


hespera sez.................

Gor anyone who doesnt know, i spent my early years in Hong Kong, that bastion of freedom and capitalism surrounded by Communist China. I had a lot of relatives who were caught up in the whole mao cult. Some of them still havent given it up...... speaking of keeping alive the fairy tale!

My dad is American, he has said that communism in russia and especially china was the best thing possible for the USA, it took them totally out of any serious competition. But that if they ever got over it, look out! Well, look what happened the past 20 - 30 years. He was right!

Countries like China and Russia could hardly hope for anything better than for the spread of fundamentalism in the USA, the kind that teaches just what Gaara speaks of here.

"Science can take a hike"

That would make a good slogan for a third world country, a little shot at definace of their masters.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Doesn't sound like professionals I would want to go to.

Well, that's completely unsurprising.

Ask them the next time if they know what psychoheresy is, and if they know the Bobgans?

(Don't tell them their first names [Martin and Diedre], they should know them already. They're probably the most feared [hated] couple today.)

Alas, no, AV -- they're far too obscure and insignificant to be known, much less hated or feared.

Head over to the Politics forums and you'll think the most hated couple today must be the Obamas.

Anyway, as I was saying, doesn't sound like professionals I would want to go to, if that's their opinion of fundamentalists.

Given the the feeling is mutual, who are you to talk?

Speaking of "opinions" --- can you tell me how they're taught to score people who see Christian symbols in the Rorschach Test?

Why not ask one when you visit?

Unless they offer their services for free, would you be willing to foot the bill, so you can help a poor fundamentalist get "help"?

Where would I go for entertainment if we did that?

 

[gaara4158]

Speaking of "opinions" --- can you tell me how they're taught to score people who see Christian symbols in the Rorschach Test?

Ah, you managed to sneak that one in again. The simple and final answer is:

1. Such a trend would certainly signify a one-track mind, and possible obsession. Further inquiry would be required to reach a diagnosis, but that would definitely provide the practitioner with a "heading."

2. You cannot reach a diagnosis solely by using the Rorschach test. It's not designed that way; it's not objective. Many psychologists don't even bother with it, and others consider it to be utterly useless.

That's the answer. So stop asking it.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's the answer. So stop asking it.

Not hardly ---

The guidelines reveal the test’s religious bias. If a person sees religious symbols, those responses will generally be scored as abnormal. The Rorschach Interpretation: Advanced Technique authors say:

Religion contents are virtually never present in the records of normals. Their occurrence is associated with profound concern about the problems of good and evil, concern which, almost always, is a screen for and displacement of guilt induced by sexual preoccupation. Religion contents may be used to infer critical and unresolved problems of sexuality . . . [religion] responses are most common among schizophrenics, particularly patients with delusions which concern religion.
​

One wonders how many unsuspecting Christians might have taken the Rorschach and consequently been treated for sexual preoccupation.

SOURCE

 

[Catherineanne]

Atheism- a lack of belief in god(s). Of course even Christians are atheist, they don't believe in Zeus, Odin, Lugh, or any other god besides their own.

Poppycock.

AV certainly has competition.

 

[Catherineanne]

If God can walk on water in violation of science, God can embed age in violation of science.

This God you postulate is deceitful, and his creation bears false witness. Who is it that the Bible says is the father of lies, in whom is no truth? It isn't God, that's for sure.

Therefore, your theory is complete balderdash.

 

[Catherineanne]

And you have just completely misunderstood my analogy. The question is not about the existence of my brother, but his location. I don't believe he's in Vancouver (atheism) but I can't be sure (agnosticism).

Atheism is not about the location of God, therefore your analogy does not apply. It is meaningless.

Atheism says there is no God, and therefore nothing can be said about him, let alone where he is. Any discussion whatever of a Deity is a waste of time, because he is as real as the tooth fairy. Moreover atheism will see the huge damage caused in the name of various deities to mankind, and may well end up very anti religion. That is a valid point of view.

Agnosticism says I do not know whether there is a God or not, but does not discount discussion of God, because it wants to know why others believe, either in theism or atheism. Agnosticism can see and understand atheism, and can see but probably not understand theism.

Theism says, there is a God. It does not specify which, or how he is to be worshipped, or how many deities there may be. It only says, there is such a thing as God. And from theism, come believers of whatever religion.

 

[Catherineanne]

I think its mental problems, honestly. I think fundamentalists need help on a professional level, really. This is me speaking from the bottom of my heart; I think that if your beliefs are hinged on the most ridiculous/harmful of ideas, there might be personal/psychological trauma from their past that one must confront and solve in order to help theirselves before they can ever possibly help others.

That may be going too far.

The need for certainty is understandable, in any of us. Fundies just carry this need for certainty a tad further than most of us need to.

 

[AV1611VET]

This God you postulate is deceitful, and his creation bears false witness.

Really?

If God wanted to be deceitful, why did He put what He did in Writing?

He could have left Genesis 1 out.

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

He even tells us not to look to the world for explanations.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Who do you think is included in that word 'man' --- does Charles Darwin come to mind?

What do you think is included in that word 'philosophy' --- does evolution come to mind?

What do you think is included in that phrase 'rudiments of the world' --- does the Periodic Table come to mind?

 

[Catherineanne]

Speaking of "opinions" --- can you tell me how they're taught to score people who see Christian symbols in the Rorschach Test?

I once asked a psychologist whether it was pathological (unhealthy) to have experiences of angels. I was very afraid that he might say it was a sign of serious mental problems. However, he said that if a person lives in a culture, such as our own, where angels are accepted by the majority of people as a reality, having any experience which involves angels will not necessarily be regarded as pathological. It would depend how they were experienced, but could well be accepted as part of our cultural heritage, and therefore perfectly normal.

All of which was most comforting.

Therefore, although I do not know the actual answer to the question you ask, I can deduce that as long as the symbol is pretty well evident, then it will be accepted as part of that person's cultural heritage. But if a person were to see a Christian symbol in every image, that might well be indicative of obsession, and therefore pathology.

In other words, psychologists do not need to share our beliefs to have respect for them. And conversely, just because a person sees a Christian symbol, that does not mean that they are fit and well.

 

[Catherineanne]

I think its psychological/personal trauma.

Trauma of this kind more often results in a loss of sustaining faith or belief, rather than a strengthening of fundamentalist values.

 

[Skaloop]

Atheism is not about the location of God, therefore your analogy does not apply. It is meaningless.

Are you just trying to be difficult now?

Real atheism = disbelief in [a god].
My analogy atheism = disbelief in [my brother being in Vancouver].

The analogy is about belief/disbelief, not location nor existence. You're confused.

But whatever, carry on. I think you and I are done here anyway, as I am not about to acquiesce that atheism and agnosticism are mutually exclusive any more than you would be willing to accept that they aren't. But come back in a few years, as the dictionaries should have caught up to reality by then, and what atheism actually means these days will be properly represented.

 

[Split Rock]

Not hardly ---
SOURCE

The reference for this assertion about Christians who see crosses in teh test as being pathological is the folowing:
Leslie Phillips and Joseph Smith. Rorschach Interpretation: Advanced Technique. New York: Grune and Stratton, 1953, p. 149

How come I knew ahead of time that this reference would be completely out of date? A standard creationist technique is to quote old, out of date sources, and then claim it represents modern scientific thought.

 

[AV1611VET]

The reference for this assertion about Christians who see crosses in teh test as being pathological is the folowing:
Leslie Phillips and Joseph Smith. Rorschach Interpretation: Advanced Technique. New York: Grune and Stratton, 1953, p. 149

How come I knew ahead of time that this reference would be completely out of date? A standard creationist technique is to quote old, out of date sources, and then claim it represents modern scientific thought.

Hey --- I don't want to hear it.

I stated it as a question --- many times --- (one specific person I asked 3 times) --- and not one person answered, until Gaara finally did.

Finally, I give an answer, and here come the "experts".

I'm seriously not interested.

 

[gaara4158]

Hey --- I don't want to hear it.

I stated it as a question --- many times --- (one specific person I asked 3 times) --- and not one person answered.

Finally, I give an answer, and here come the "experts".

I'm seriously not interested.

I'm fed up with this, AV. I give you a very clear, explicit answer AS A PSYCHOLOGY STUDENT and you tell me I'm wrong, throwing an outdated text in my face as the Final Answer. Then you have the audacity to claim that "nobody has answered my question." It's absolute RUBBISH, beyond the level of your silly word games. You are literally rejecting my reality and substituting your own. I am in no mood and will have none of it. I'm taking this as personal and I am reporting you. Posting whatever you want, ignoring all responses is called spamming.

The nerve...

 

[jpcedotal]

A mad agnostic? Must be God's fault.