Fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe.

[Pachomius]

Someone here presumably an atheist says that I am the one bringing up the flying spaghetti monster, the invisible pink unicorn, the celestial teapot.

No, I am not the one, here is the one below who I know from his style of posting to be an atheist of the obstructionistic kind, no utmost good faith and no utmost good will, in posting here in this Christian forums website.

Originally posted by Gracchus #14 - 14th May 2011, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Pachomius

What is the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe?
​

That is like asking what the relationship is between Russel's Teapot and the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the asteroid belt, or the Invisible Pink Unicorn and Beijing.

As a Christian theist I will say that the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe is that God is the creator of the universe.

What about other Christians here and also non-Christians?
​

Brahma creates, Vishnu preserves, and Shiva destroys. If a god is or gods arpostulated at all someone has made some baseless statement about his or their "fundamental" nature(s).

It is like asking whether Goldilocks had a blue hair ribbon or a red one, based upon a personality assessment.


__________________
"A belief which leaves no place for doubt is not a belief; it is a superstition." - Jose Bergamin

"You can't trust an honest man." --- Anonymous

"He does not believe who does not live according to his belief." -- Thomas Fuller

"The fact that the author thinks slowly is not serious, but the fact that he publishes faster than he thinks is inexcusable." -- Wolfgang Pauli

"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" -- Micah 6:8

"It is because we believe absurdities that we are able to commit atrocities." -- Voltaire

"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." -- Wolfgang Pauli

"Je ne suis pas marxiste." -- Karl Marx

"Faith is believing what you know ain't so."-- Mark Twain

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein




​

So, addressing the author of the post above, please go away, return to your fellow brethren atheists and engage in your obstructionistic strategy with them for your all mutual pleasure degrading to yourselves, so as to feel so smart that you can muddle everything and evade everything to your heart's content and get away with it for your own sense of whatever you feel so sure about.



Pachomius

 

[Wiccan_Child]

What is the fundamental relationship between God and the universe, from the Christian worldview? That one is subservient to and was created by the other.

 

[Pachomius]

Originally posted by Gracchus link 57500447 #40 18th May 2011, 09:18 AM

[...]

Not all Christians put their faith in a god who is a sadistic moron, but some of them do.

​

Dear atheist fellow human, please divest yourself first of your grudges against God, and just attend to the concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe.


Abstain from all such speech as is obviously motivated by grudges.


Grudges have no place in an academic exchange of thoughts.



Your speech betrays your heart, it is full of grudges.


And you are the one who first brought up in this thread the phrases flying spaghetti monster, invisible pink unicorn, (celestial) teapot, when you can say academically that the concept of God is simply similar to unprovable (to yourself) concepts or incoherent concepts, no need to resort to demeaning images.


Time to examine your heart and make sure it does not rule your mind.





Pachomius

 

[quatona]

Originally posted by Gracchus link 57500447 #40 18th May 2011, 09:18 AM

[...]

Not all Christians put their faith in a god who is a sadistic moron, but some of them do.

​

Dear atheist fellow human, please divest yourself first of your grudges against God, and just attend to the concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe.


Abstain from all such speech as is obviously motivated by grudges.


Grudges have no place in an academic exchange of thoughts.

Since you are so concerned with keeping this exchange academic I am a bit surprised that you yourself apparently can´t (or are not willing to) differenciate between God and your (or anyone else´s, for that matter) god concept.
Gracchus wasn´t saying that God is a moron but that certain god concepts picture God as a moron.

 

[Pachomius]

Originally posted by Gracchus #42 link 57500740 18th May 2011, 09:41 AM

So, everything is either God or not God. But you can demonstrate any real thing that is not God. You cannot demonstrate any real thing that is God.

You cannot demonstrate the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, Russel's Teapot, or (your) God. Those things have that in common.

Pantheists and panentheists can point to the universe and say "That's God."

Their God is real because their God is reality itself. (Admittedly the panentheists claim that God is or may be more than what is real.)
​

You insist on your stubbornness to act obstructionistic to the thread which is about concepts, not demonstrations of anything to exist in reality or not.

That betrays your real agenda here, to obstruct the development of the thread.

Then you are obviously possessed by grudges, you just cannot abstain from hitting God with calling him demeaning epithets.



Anyway, tell me in the universe which is the research object of astrophysicists, what are the components thereof according to their empirical examinations?

And don't bring in spaghetti, and one horned horse, and teapot, unless you really cannot or will not which is worse for your academic orientation, abstain from being grudgeful against God, even just the concept of God as maker of everything that is not God Himself.


Go and examine your heart, and then you just might resolve to change and develop it as to find your life worth living.

Otherwise you will suffocate, kill yourself with grudges against God Who to you does not exist either except to be the object of your grudges that you call him even sadistic moron.

See, you are the worst example but genuine of a heart and mind all mixed up with grudges.

Go for therapy, or better since you are still capable of coherent speech in a way, then you can presumably still examine yourself and engage in some DIY self-healing.



Pachomius

 

[Pachomius]

Originally posted by quatona #43 link 57503181 18th May 2011, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Pachomius

All such phrases are distractions: flying spaghetti monster, invisible pink unicorn, celestial teapot.
​

That would depend on the topic and the context.
Btw.: In this your thread you were the one who brought them up. Typically, atheists don´t bring them up in discussions about the concept of god, but in discussions about evidence and such.

Just keep to the concept, maker of everything that is not God.

What is wrong with that concept?
​

That such an entity exists is an unparsimonous assumption, to begin with.
​

Get your facts straight, Gracchus is the one who first brought them up: flying spaghetti monster, invisible pink unicorn, (celestial) teapot.

See #42 14th May 2011, 04:18 PM.


You say:

That such an entity exists is an unparsimonous assumption, to begin with.
​

You guys seem to be impervious to conceptual thinking.

I have told you time and again to keep to concepts.


You are obviously into obstructing the development of the thread, go away, return to your atheist brethren instead of bellyaching your grudges here in Christian forums.


"Unparsimonous" you say? but not like your flying spaghetti monster, invisible pink unicorn, and celestial teapot, that is the kind of (un)thinking you guys are used to, to all appearances yes.

Which is more unparsimonious? A concept or flying spaghetti monster, invisible pink unicorn, and celestial teapot?


You are asked to find what is wrong with a concept, wherefore if you are possessed of conceptual thinking, you examine the internal ingredients of the concept.


Here, I will give you a tip.

Just examine the ingredients of the concept, maker of everything not God Himself, see anything that among themselves cannot belong together?

maker
of
everything
not
God
Himself​

You guys seem patently to be impervious to conceptual thinking.

Because your heart and mind are mired in grudges against God Whom ironically you shout loudly all the time you don't believe exist.




Pachomius

 

[Pachomius]

Originally posted by quatona; 57527869

Since you are so concerned with keeping this exchange academic I am a bit surprised that you yourself apparently can´t (or are not willing to) differenciate between God and your (or anyone else´s, for that matter) god concept.
Gracchus wasn´t saying that God is a moron but that certain god concepts picture God as a moron.
​

Let the man speak for himself, he is of age and not dumb.


Besides, you said you are out here because you don't want to waste your time here. and I was glad for myself and the readers here who do I want to assume care to read a productively enriching exchange of views on the concept of God in relation to the universe, in the Christian faith.

Originally posted by quatona; 57517994

Initially I wasn´t intending to waste my time here - au contraire I felt it might be a worthwhile thread.

Thanks for your advice, and thanks for warning me that the time spent here is wasted! I have come to that conclusion, as well.

​

I am not being unacademic, just don't use words which are emotionally inflammatory.

But I will be stern with people who are stubborn and cannot or insist on going the wrong way, when the issue is in a clear direction not the direction they are pursuing in order to obstruct its development.

And the author keeps reminding participants to keep to the direction, namely, the thread is concerned with concepts, in particular the fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith, in relation to the universe.



Pachomius

 

[quatona]

Thanks for the reminder - much appreciated.

 

[Gracchus]

con·cept (knspt)
n.
1. A general idea derived or inferred from specific instances or occurrences.
2. Something formed in the mind; a thought or notion. See Synonyms at idea.
3. A scheme; a plan: "began searching for an agency to handle a new restaurant concept" (ADWEEK).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Late Latin conceptus, from Latin, past participle of concipere, to conceive; see conceive.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

So what the OP proposes for us to discuss is something formed in someone's mind, that the poster thinks is fundamental to the Christian idea of divinity.

My opinion on such matters is that such a concept has no basis in reality, that like the IPU, RTp or the FSM it is simply something made up, a fantasy. God may be real, but Christian theologians have made his qualities so contradictory, and at the same time so unfalsifiable that discussing them is like discussing the color of the ribbon in Goldilocks' hair.

What is the fundamental Christian concept of God? Is it shared by all Christians? You think that non-Christians don't know what it is or understand it, but even Christians don't seem to agree about it. Some Christians, like Pachomius, seem to think that God is something entirely separate from his creation. On the other hand some seem to think that there is a divine spark in the human individual. And one or two say that we are in the Lord and the lord is in us. (It's a kind of fractal!)

OK, Pachomius, don't be coy! Dump it out and see if it draws flies.

If, as I suspect, your "fundamental concept" is not better formulated than the FSM or the IPU, then I don't think you are going to be very convincing, or even interesting. But I could be wrong.

 

[sandwiches]

Just focus on God in the Christian faith.

As I said for myself as a Christian theist the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe is that God is the creator of the universe.

So, if you are not acquainted with the concept of God in the Christian faith, please do some reading and learn what is God in the Christian faith.

Most of us are acquainted with this concept and your opinion on the subject has been dully noted. Also, from your posts it appears that you're trying to take complete control of the discussion and take it only where you want it to go.

Moving on... First define 'universe.' If we define the universe as all that exists, then God is part of the universe and within it as is everything else that we know of. Would this make God merely a powerful entity that exists, as we do, in this universe?

 

[Pachomius]

Well, some people here want to know what is the universe that I am talking about in my presentation of the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe in the Christian faith.

It is most disappointing that English conversant people have to ask what I mean by the word universe, when that word is one that English speaking and writing people who read internet forums on philosophy must know otherwise they should not be reading internet forums on philosophy.

Tell you what people who want to know but are conversant in English what I mean by universe, enter the word universe in google search box and find out what you can and should learn what is universe, for I will not cater to your obstructionistic maneuverings.

If you cannot make up what I mean, then ask your teacher in schools even just the one teaching you English composition in grade school.

Now, if you cannot know just the same after all your utmost good faith and utmost good will in your search to know what is the meaning of the word universe, then please go away, you are not qualified to participate in this thread.


Next, some people are saying that Christians do not have a common fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe.

Since the Christian faith is the most populously adhered to in mankind today, then the ordinary English reading person in the West should know already that there is a common fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe.

Several of you atheist folks here have from utmost good faith and from utmost good will have already contributed what they know to be the fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe, and I have congratulated them that they have the correct concept.

So, this is your opportunity to read the present thread from page 1 # 1 and meet their texts on what they know which is correct of the fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe, which is the common concept among Christians.

However, if and it is so, your intention is to obstruct the development of this thread, please just go away and join your atheist brethren in atheists' forums where you can do anything even without ever caring to know what the issue is all about, just so that no one gets to put in a word to explain to you atheist folks in the way of trying to get your brain to exercise your thinking cells in analyzing what is God, in terms of the fundamental concept in the Christian faith in the relation to the universe.


So, for people who are qualified, let me just invite you and myself to analyze the fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe, which I have stated to be in very plain, simple, clear words which even a child of nursery school age can understand:

Maker of everything that is not God Himself.​

So, presenting the ingredient words of that statement, we have the following words which we will now analyze to see first, whether they can belong among themselves together compatibly, i.e., not one word in the concept of God should be removed because it has no place in the concept as expressed in that brief line:

Maker of everything that is not God Himself.​

Maker
of
everything
that
is
not
God
Himself.​

By way of example, someone here earlier much earlier already tells us that an example of a concept that is not right is defining a triangle as a figure with four sides.

I ask everyone with the utmost good faith and the utmost good will to share among ourselves constructively and thus profitably to the advancement of knowledge in each one of us, what is the word in the concept of a triangle defined as a figure with four sides, that should not belong among the rest of the words?

Do we all agree that is the word four, which should not belong in the correct concept of a triangle, because a triangle is a figure with three sides, and neither more nor less than three sides.



By the way, if you atheists who do not know or deny that there is a common fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith, ie., among Christians, in relation to the universe, a quick way is to call up any pastor of a flourishing church and ask him what is the common fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe, then if you have called up five and you don't find that they have given you ideas by which you intelligently at once can filter out the common fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe, then I must conclude that you are definitely not qualified to participate in this thread, and I fear not in any thread either specially in a board which is into philosophy.



Pachomius

 

[Gracchus]

Well, some people here want to know what is the universe that I am talking about in my presentation of the fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe in the Christian faith.

It is most disappointing that English conversant people have to ask what I mean by the word universe, when that word is one that English speaking and writing people who read internet forums on philosophy must know otherwise they should not be reading internet forums on philosophy.

Let's be fair. Some words have more than one meaning. Some folks use words in non-standard ways. So when extraordinary or fantastic claims are made it behooves us to make sure we understand how the words are being used.

Tell you what people who want to know but are conversant in English what I mean by universe, enter the word universe in google search box and find out what you can and should learn what is universe, for I will not cater to your obstructionistic maneuverings.

"The universe is commonly defined as the totality of everything that exists, including all physical matter and energy, the planets, stars, galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, although this usage may differ with the context (see definitions, below)."

Universe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you cannot make up what I mean, then ask your teacher in schools even just the one teaching you English composition in grade school.

Begging your pardon, but some of my grade school teachers were not very careful with facts and definitions, especially those concerning religion or science, although most were conversant with spelling and elementary English grammar.

Now, if you cannot know just the same after all your utmost good faith and utmost good will in your search to know what is the meaning of the word universe, then please go away, you are not qualified to participate in this thread.

Assume we know what a Google search turned up. Is this what you mean by "universe": "Everything that exists"?

Next, some people are saying that Christians do not have a common fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe.

Well some Christians I have met do say that God created the universe, and is therefore not part of the universe, but by the definition above, that would mean that God does not exist, because that definition of the universe is everything that does exist.

Since the Christian faith is the most populously adhered to in mankind today, then the ordinary English reading person in the West should know already that there is a common fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe.

But anyone reasonably familiar with the tens of thousands of Christian sects is aware that you are going to find some that will disagree with the others about any one point of doctrine.

Several of you atheist folks here have from utmost good faith and from utmost good will have already contributed what they know to be the fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe, and I have congratulated them that they have the correct concept.

In other words you have congratulated those who agree with you.

So, this is your opportunity to read the present thread from page 1 # 1 and meet their texts on what they know which is correct of the fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe, which is the common concept among Christians.

It may be common, but it may not be universal, and if it is not universal can it be fundamental?

However, if and it is so, your intention is to obstruct the development of this thread, please just go away and join your atheist brethren in atheists' forums where you can do anything even without ever caring to know what the issue is all about, just so that no one gets to put in a word to explain to you atheist folks in the way of trying to get your brain to exercise your thinking cells in analyzing what is God, in terms of the fundamental concept in the Christian faith in the relation to the universe.

I would suggest you purchase Christian Forums so that you can decide who posts here. Or perhaps you should post in one of the "Christians Only" forums, although you would probably find even there that some Christians would disagree with you. Of course if you did not find anyone who disagreed with you there, you would be "preaching to the choir" and why would you bother?

So, for people who are qualified, ...

Who would seem to be those who agree with you!

...let me just invite you and myself to analyze the fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe, which I have stated to be in very plain, simple, clear words which even a child of nursery school age can understand:

Maker of everything that is not God Himself.
​

So, either God did not make the universe or God does not exist. That seems clear enough.

So, presenting the ingredient words of that statement, we have the following words which we will now analyze to see first, whether they can belong among themselves together compatibly, i.e., not one word in the concept of God should be removed because it has no place in the concept as expressed in that brief line:

Maker of everything that is not God Himself.
​

Maker
of
everything
that
is
not
God
Himself.
​

You are repeating yourself unecessarily. We got it. Either God did not make the universe or God does not exist.

By way of example, someone here earlier much earlier already tells us that an example of a concept that is not right is defining a triangle as a figure with four sides.

I think we can agree that some concepts are not in accord with reality.

veryone with the utmost good faith and the utmost good will to share among ourselves constructively and thus profitably to the advancement of knowledge in each one of us, what is the word in the concept of a triangle defined as a figure with four sides, that should not belong among the rest of the words?

Do we all agree that is the word four, which should not belong in the correct concept of a triangle, because a triangle is a figure with three sides, and neither more nor less than three sides.

Indeed, a if we say that a triangle has four sides then "triangle" must be what most of us would call a "quadrilateral" and "triangle" would be being used with a non-standard definition.

By the way, if you atheists who do not know or deny that there is a common fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith, ie., among Christians, in relation to the universe, a quick way is to call up any pastor of a flourishing church and ask him what is the common fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe, then if you have called up five and you don't find that they have given you ideas by which you intelligently at once can filter out the common fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe, then I must conclude that you are definitely not qualified to participate in this thread, and I fear not in any thread either specially in a board which is into philosophy.

So if an assortment of Christians cannot coherently agree on some "fundamental" concept of Christianity it is those making inquiry who are "unqualified". That is ... somewhat idiosyncratic... to say the least.

In any case, did God create the universe, and if he did not, does he exist? Or did the Google search that you enjoined return a bad definition for the term "universe"?

 

[sandwiches]

Tell you what people who want to know but are conversant in English what I mean by universe, enter the word universe in google search box and find out what you can and should learn what is universe, for I will not cater to your obstructionistic maneuverings.

I Googled it and I was right. God is indeed PART of the universe. What does this mean for the creator of said universe? I guess he simply expanded on what already existed, presumably himself. So, again, would this mean that God is merely a powerful entity that exists within the universe same as humans, dogs, cars, keychains... Interesting.

The biggest question to me remains that of the universe. Is the universe infinite and its borders merely where the outlying atoms or quanta of energy lie or does the universe have finite limits?

 

[sandwiches]

In other words you have congratulated those who agree with you.

Pretty much. He really needs to Google what 'discussion' and 'forums' are, as he seems to be think that any disagreements or requests for explanations or elaborations on his part are simply attempts at trolling him. I don't even know what he expected from this discussion as every contrary opinion or expansion of the premise is attacked by him.

 

[SithDoughnut]

By the way, if you atheists who do not know or deny that there is a common fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith, ie., among Christians, in relation to the universe, a quick way is to call up any pastor of a flourishing church and ask him what is the common fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe, then if you have called up five and you don't find that they have given you ideas by which you intelligently at once can filter out the common fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe, then I must conclude that you are definitely not qualified to participate in this thread, and I fear not in any thread either specially in a board which is into philosophy.

Arrogance looks bad, especially when you've just argued yourself into a position were either your OP is wrong or God does not exist (I typed the explanation out then realised that Gracchus had already done it).

So, which is it? Are you as unqualified as the rest of us, or is your religion a lie? Which is more important, your belief or your ego? There's a third option too - perhaps you can try actually discussing and explaining your usage of the English language, and stop acting so self-important.

 

[Pikaia]

As far as I can figure, all Gods are either in charge of some aspect of the world, or set it in motion. However, humans can also be in charge of small bits of the world, so such contrived stipulations as "longer lifespan than humans" and "larger jurisdiction than humans" may also be fundamental. Does this make the blue whale a god of echolocation and eating krill? Ultimately, a god may be like porn. You know it when you see it.

 

[KCfromNC]

I'm not trying to be evasive, but why series questions beg a common context. We many not have a common context. Could I trouble you to rephrase your question, please?

You make a number of statements as if they are objective facts. How do you know that they are?

 

[Pachomius]

Please go over from the start of this thread every post: because the question of God as part of the universe and universe as part of God has been discussed.

And I said that God and universe are not identical, but for the rest Christians can use all kinds of figures of speech and poetic license provided they don't blaspheme the name of God, in regard to everything being part of God and God being part of everything.

Now, if you are still wondering what is universe in the present thread, just stick around and you will if you have not any idea at all, come to what in a particular context here the universe is in terms of its reach and in terms of its internal constitution.

You see, the universe used to be the whole collection of existence, that includes God as also an existing entity, but as I said already, God and the universe are not identical, meaning God even as a member of the universe of existence in His role as maker of everything that is not God Himself is not identical to the universe that is everything made by God.


At present there are speculators who want to bring in other universes whatever, for such people I will tell them that those universes are also parts and parcels of the universe that is the whole totality of existence.

And atheist scientists specially atheist scientists want to limit the universe of existence to only what they consider to be matter, because for them matter is the only thing that exists -- that goes to show how they censor their own mind to not soar beyond and above and beneath the realm of matter.



Now, therefore, are you people of utmost good faith and utmost good will to exchange views to the advancement of genuine knowledge among ourselves, are you ready to examine the word ingredients of the fundamental concept of God among Christians in relation to the universe to be:

Maker of everything that is not God Himself.​

Maker
of
everything
that
is
not
God
Himself.​

Examine the words of that text for the fundamental concept of God among Christians in relation to the universe, and see whether there is a word there that should not belong to the collection of words among themselves.




No more please obstructionistic maneuverings, otherwise you will look like cashless shoppers who waste the time of the storekeeper talking, about his merchandise and all the time you are lying, trying to project the image of being cash-rich whereas you are vacuous of cash, but just wasting the storekeeper's time, next time you come around he would not even bother to look at you.




Pachomius

 

[SithDoughnut]

Please go over from the start of this thread every post: because the question of God as part of the universe and universe as part of God has been discussed.

No, you just had a tantrum when people disagreed with you. Which is shame, because if you'd listened to them you might have learned something.

And I said that God and universe are not identical

Where is your Biblical evidence that God is not part of the Universe?

You see, the universe used to be the whole collection of existence, that includes God as also an existing entity, but as I said already, God and the universe are not identical, meaning God even as a member of the universe of existence in His role as maker of everything that is not God Himself is not identical to the universe that is everything made by God.

So we're basing the English language on an unsupported claim? "I said it, so it is a true"?

And atheist scientists specially atheist scientists want to limit the universe of existence to only what they consider to be matter, because for them matter is the only thing that exists -- that goes to show how they censor their own mind to not soar beyond and above and beneath the realm of matter.

Evidence? Generally the universe is defined that everything that exists still, or occasionally our space-time continuum for the purpose of explaining concepts such as the multi-verse idea. A lot of the universe is energy.

Now, therefore, are you people of utmost good faith and utmost good will to exchange views to the advancement of genuine knowledge among ourselves, are you ready to examine the word ingredients of the fundamental concept of God among Christians in relation to the universe to be

Yes. The question is, are you? You've been clinging on to your idea and trying to drown out any questions in the meantime. Please, stop idolising yourself - I hear it's a sin.

Maker of everything that is not God Himself.​

Maker
of
everything
that
is
not
God
Himself.​

That's nice, but all you've done there is describe deism. Are you saying that YDeism is not fundamentally different to Christianity? What about Islam? you're claiming that Islam and Christianity are fundamentally the same too.

Examine the words of that text for the fundamental concept of God among Christians in relation to the universe, and see whether there is a word there that should not belong to the collection of words among themselves.

I think some need to be added if you're going to describe only the Christian God. Perhaps that isn't your intention, but if we're going to be fundamental and specific in our definition, you're going to have to clarify which maker (there are plenty of Gods) we're talking about.

But, if you want to keep that and shorten it, you can get rid of the word "himself". It's redundant because you've already explained that it's everything but God.

No more please obstructionistic maneuverings, otherwise you will look like cashless shoppers who waste the time of the storekeeper talking, about his merchandise and all the time you are lying, trying to project the image of being cash-rich whereas you are vacuous of cash, but just wasting the storekeeper's time, next time you come around he would not even bother to look at you.

The shopkeeper should be careful though, because he may just have the wrong mental image. He may need to re-think the importance of his shop, as perhaps his wares are not good enough for people to want to buy. If the shopkeeper doesn't listen to the comments and complaints of his customers, he may find that he ends up with no customers at all.

 

[Gracchus]

Originally posted by Gracchus; 57537420

[...]

Next, some people are saying that Christians do not have a common fundamental concept of God in relation to the universe.
​

But anyone reasonably familiar with the tens of thousands of Christian sects is aware that you are going to find some that will disagree with the others about any one point of doctrine.


​

Stop playing dumb and acting in effect a liar,

Exaggeration is a form of lying.

There are no tens of thousands of Christan sects.

"Number of Christian Denominations:
There are approximately 38,000 Christian denominations in the world. This statistic takes into consideration cultural distinctions of denominations in different countries."
World Christian Encyclopedia (2001)

you are an obstructionist here, and go away.

Eventually!

Otherwise I will be stern and tell you to scram!

Qnyway, I have to report you for calling God a sadistic moron in your post, #40.

Not all Christians put their faith in a god who is a sadistic moron, but some of them do.

You don't seem to be able to comprehend what you read.

Some people do worship a sadistic moron. Their god fits their proclivities. Their god sends people into eternal pain because they don't believe irrational nonsense. That isn't my God.

Is that all you have to contribute, calling God a flying spaghetti monster, an invisible pink unicorn, a celestial teapot, a sadistic moron, and declaring with in effect a lie that there are tens of thousands of Christian sects?

I said that there was as much evidence for God (by your definition) as there is for the FSM, IPU, or Russel's Teapot.

Go away!

I will eventually, though you might go away first. If you can't stand to have your poor reasoning critiqued and falsehoods exposed, you might consider going into a closet to preach to the moths.

You don't have any utmost good faith much less utmost good will in any genuine pursuit of knowledge.

It is true that I'm not a fanatic, but I have been pursuing knowledge fairly persistently for nearly seventy years.

What you have are conspicuously from your vituperative words grudges against God.

I have no grudge against God. If I did, I don't think it would seriously inconvenience him, and I am sure he could and would deal with it. I don't even have a grudge against you. You are often just mistaken. If you come here to post, I may point that out.

Go and join your brethren in atheists' forums where you can with impunity blaspheme God to your most foul content, and degrade your humanity most assuredly.

God can, I would think, deal with me as he wishes. It isn't your job.

Everytime you open your mouth there is nothing but poison from your heart and mind, that poison that you should really you owe it to yourself to cleanse it and keep it out of your whole being.

There was something someone said about beams and motes... I just can't bring it to mind right now.

Otherwise you will not find any life worth living.

So far, so good! And whatever happens now, I have had a satisfactory run.

Seriously though, you really ought to get hold of yourself. Your wrath is going to etch your soul. It is causing you far more unecessary pain than it could ever cause me.