Fundamental Beliefs

[freeindeed2]

Does an SDA member have to accept and believe ALL 28 Fundamental Beliefs in order to be an SDA?

For example, what if someone accepts 26 of the 28? Or 22 of the 28? Would they still be able to be a member?

Are all of the 28 ABSOLUTELY essential (since they're fundamental)? Are there some (or even parts of some) that are not 'essential' to one's spiritual life and salvation? (I'm not sure if I can give examples or not, but I hope you understand the questions.)

Thanks!

freeindeed

 

[Jon0388g]

How many does it require to disagree with before one is classed as non-SDA? 1? 3? 5? 27?

Are you asking how many we must believe to be an SDA, or how many are essential to believe for our salvation?

Jon

 

[Sophia7]

We have a Progressive SDA subforum here for those who do not agree with all 28 fundamentals but who still consider themselves Adventists. I have lately found myself in the position of becoming one of them. I guess my question is whether some beliefs are more "fundamental" than others. If so, which ones? And who makes that determination? Though Adventists have historically been opposed to creeds, we now have one.

 

[DrStupid_Ben]

Thank you for asking this question, It's a question I've asked myself before - but I haven't really thought out an answer.

What I know is that our church pre-1980 had a strong history of discussing and evaluating our beliefs, and I personally don't think that that should stop once we adopt a creed of sorts. A voice of dissent, if spoken in the right spirit (not in anger or malace etc.) can be a wonderful thing.

 

[tall73]

The 1980 statements, to the degree they have become a defacto creed, were a mistake.

They are fine for discussing the general beliefs of the church. But we have never been tied to a creed.

Having said that, the concept of "pillars" was around for a long time, and shorter lists of beliefs had been formulated before 1980.

 

[.chrys.]

It is my understanding that a person can be baptized once he/she agrees to the 13 baptismal vows--not the 28 fundamental beliefs.

For purposes of labeling myself, I choose "Christian" (notice the cross next to my avatar, not the SDA flames) as I believe that encompasses all my beliefs and does not limit me to the whatever the Adventist fathers decide at this point in time.

~Witness

 

[DrStupid_Ben]

The 1980 statements, to the degree they have become a defacto creed, were a mistake.

They are fine for discussing the general beliefs of the church. But we have never been tied to a creed.

Having said that, the concept of "pillars" was around for a long time, and shorter lists of beliefs had been formulated before 1980.

Could that be the six S's - Sabbath, Second Coming, Salvation, Sanctuary, State of the Dead, and Scripture?
I've always seen them as the fundamental ideas that helped shape the Advent Movement. I know some people see them as the "essential" elements (they use that idea alot in general religion classes at my college)

 

[Sophia7]

Could that be the six S's - Sabbath, Second Coming, Salvation, Sanctuary, State of the Dead, and Scripture?
I've always seen them as the fundamental ideas that helped shape the Advent Movement. I know some people see them as the "essential" elements (they use that idea alot in general religion classes at my college)

There's a seventh: Spirit of Prophecy.

 

[DrStupid_Ben]

There's a seventh: Spirit of Prophecy.

yeah, we left it at six at college. I guess the same problem arises with identifying pillars.

 

[Sophia7]

Yes, that's part of the problem with trying to determine who can call himself or herself an Adventist.

 

[.chrys.]

I think it's totally up to the individual as to what he/she wishes to call him/herself. If "Adventist" fits, then by all means great! For me, it's not a perfect fit--it is too limiting in my opinion.

~Witness

 

[freeindeed2]

Does an SDA member have to accept and believe ALL 28 Fundamental Beliefs in order to be an SDA?

For example, what if someone accepts 26 of the 28? Or 22 of the 28? Would they still be able to be a member?

Are all of the 28 ABSOLUTELY essential (since they're fundamental)? Are there some (or even parts of some) that are not 'essential' to one's spiritual life and salvation? (I'm not sure if I can give examples or not, but I hope you understand the questions.)

Thanks!

freeindeed

I guess what I'm really trying to get at is this:

How many of the 28 Fundies are "essential" for salvation?

How many are "essential" for SDA membership?

If they aren't "essential' for salvation or membership then why are they called "fundamentals"?

And if they're not "essential" for salvation then why are they "essential" for membership?

freeindeed

 

[.chrys.]

They are not essential for membership. Only the 13 baptismal vows are essential for membership in the SDA church.

As for being salvific, probably only a few meet the criteria. They are fundamental insofar as much as they are the building blocks for faith.

Here is the beginning of wisdom...

~Witness

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

If they aren't "essential' for salvation or membership then why are they called "fundamentals"?

And if they're not "essential" for salvation then why are they "essential" for membership?

The book which produced the 27 fundamental beliefs was made to express the beliefs of the official SDA church. The 27 now 28 are not essential for membership (for instance they did not exist prior to 1980 so many SDA's never said they accepted them or not and there is nothing that requires a member to say that they accept them.)

They don't provide essentials for anything, they are only fundamental in the understanding of the SDA denomination, at least the leadership.

We had an interesting discussion on another forum going over the idea of what is essential for Christian belief. Here is my list:

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]1. Because of the complexity of the Universe we recognize that there is a God, the master designer of all we see. God is transcendent, meaning not only does God exist but He is involved with His creation in a personal way, God affects people’s minds in order to draw people closer to God and improve mankind’s existence.
2. Through the evidence of prophetic, historical , poetic and theological information we hold the Bible as God inspired information which leads to a greater understanding of God and of Humanity. The Bible is used as the standard for all doctrines the Christian holds
3. There is only One God revealed in three Persons, Father, Son (Jesus Christ) and Holy Spirit. The nature of God is outside the realm of human understanding but through God’s transcendent revelation of Himself in the Bible and the mind we can realize some of his attributes. God is all knowledgeable, characterized by love and all powerful and concerned with his creation.
4. Sin is the attitude which inspires rebellion and self centeredness, that hurts others or ourselves. Man fell from his original created condition and has suffered the natural consequences of his actions as well as the consequences upon the natural world as perfection was lost by the presence of sin.
5. God became a man in the person of Jesus Christ, fully human and fully divine. Jesus’ life, death and resurrection reveal the power and character of God, His love, His forgiveness, and His desire to reconcile fallen man back to a trusting relationship with God. Jesus has promised to return to take His followers to be with Him forever. Death the consequence of sin has been conquered by the resurrection of Jesus proving He can do what He promises.
6. Those who follow Jesus Christ are His disciples and they together make up the church. Believers gather together to worship God, strengthen and instruct each other. Christians act as ambassadors of God spreading the knowledge about the things of God and the good news about God and what God can do for humanity.
7. Salvation is the gift of God, obtained because of the gracious character of God by faith (trust) that God is God and will do what He promises.
8. We are continually growing in our knowledge of God and ourselves. There will always be more truth to learn and more ways to apply what is learned. [/FONT]

 

[freeindeed2]

The book which produced the 27 fundamental beliefs was made to express the beliefs of the official SDA church. The 27 now 28 are not essential for membership (for instance they did not exist prior to 1980 so many SDA's never said they accepted them or not and there is nothing that requires a member to say that they accept them.)

They don't provide essentials for anything, they are only fundamental in the understanding of the SDA denomination, at least the leadership.

Point 11 of the SDA Baptismal Vows says:

11. Do you know and understand the fundamental Bible principles as taught by the Seventh-day Adventist Church? Do you purpose, by the grace of God, to fulfill His will by ordering your life in harmony with these principles?

The "fundamental Bible principles" are the 28 fundamental beliefs, which are defined in a much larger way in the 27 Fundamental Beliefs book.

Does this statement make them essential to salvation and/or membership in the SDA church?

(Depending on where (which forum) you had that discussion, I may have read it. It sounds familiar!)

freeindeed

 

[Sophia7]

The book which produced the 27 fundamental beliefs was made to express the beliefs of the official SDA church. The 27 now 28 are not essential for membership (for instance they did not exist prior to 1980 so many SDA's never said they accepted them or not and there is nothing that requires a member to say that they accept them.)

I never said that I agreed with all of them (27 at the time) when I was baptized. I was never asked. Even now, some pastors require explicit affirmation of all 28 before baptism while others don't.

They don't provide essentials for anything, they are only fundamental in the understanding of the SDA denomination, at least the leadership.

We had an interesting discussion on another forum going over the idea of what is essential for Christian belief. Here is my list:

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]1. Because of the complexity of the Universe we recognize that there is a God, the master designer of all we see. God is transcendent, meaning not only does God exist but He is involved with His creation in a personal way, God affects people’s minds in order to draw people closer to God and improve mankind’s existence.
2. Through the evidence of prophetic, historical , poetic and theological information we hold the Bible as God inspired information which leads to a greater understanding of God and of Humanity. The Bible is used as the standard for all doctrines the Christian holds
3. There is only One God revealed in three Persons, Father, Son (Jesus Christ) and Holy Spirit. The nature of God is outside the realm of human understanding but through God’s transcendent revelation of Himself in the Bible and the mind we can realize some of his attributes. God is all knowledgeable, characterized by love and all powerful and concerned with his creation.
4. Sin is the attitude which inspires rebellion and self centeredness, that hurts others or ourselves. Man fell from his original created condition and has suffered the natural consequences of his actions as well as the consequences upon the natural world as perfection was lost by the presence of sin.
5. God became a man in the person of Jesus Christ, fully human and fully divine. Jesus’ life, death and resurrection reveal the power and character of God, His love, His forgiveness, and His desire to reconcile fallen man back to a trusting relationship with God. Jesus has promised to return to take His followers to be with Him forever. Death the consequence of sin has been conquered by the resurrection of Jesus proving He can do what He promises.
6. Those who follow Jesus Christ are His disciples and they together make up the church. Believers gather together to worship God, strengthen and instruct each other. Christians act as ambassadors of God spreading the knowledge about the things of God and the good news about God and what God can do for humanity.
7. Salvation is the gift of God, obtained because of the gracious character of God by faith (trust) that God is God and will do what He promises.
8. We are continually growing in our knowledge of God and ourselves. There will always be more truth to learn and more ways to apply what is learned.[/FONT]

Beyond general Christian statements of belief, most denominations have some specific beliefs that a person should agree with in order to consider himself a member of that denomination. My question is whether acceptance of certain distinctive Adventist beliefs should be required for membership in our church and, if so, which ones? And at what point would someone who once agreed with all of them but no longer does have to stop considering himself an Adventist?

 

[Sophia7]

Point 11 of the SDA Baptismal Vows says:

11. Do you know and understand the fundamental Bible principles as taught by the Seventh-day Adventist Church? Do you purpose, by the grace of God, to fulfill His will by ordering your life in harmony with these principles?

The "fundamental Bible principles" are the 28 fundamental beliefs, which are defined in a much larger way in the 27 Fundamental Beliefs book.

Does this statement make them essential to salvation and/or membership in the SDA church?

Essential for salvation? No. Essential for membership in the SDA Church? Good question.

 

[freeindeed2]

I never said that I agreed with all of them (27 at the time) when I was baptized. I was never asked. Even now, some pastors require explicit affirmation of all 28 before baptism while others don't.

Beyond general Christian statements of belief, most denominations have some specific beliefs that a person should agree with in order to consider himself a member of that denomination. My question is whether acceptance of certain distinctive Adventist beliefs should be required for membership in our church and, if so, which ones? And at what point would someone who once agreed with all of them but no longer does have to stop considering himself an Adventist?

You've captured the essence of my questions. Point number 11 of the SDA vows includes all of the fundamentals of the SDA church. So is it all 'essential'?

This was the statement concerning the fundamentals that I agreed to:

8. So far as you have studied and investigated the doctrines as taught by the Seventh-day Adventist denomination, do you believe in and accept them?
​

I was baptized before the fundie book was published and there were statements like this that I made vows to:

16. Do you understand the principles of Christian temperance as taught by the Seventh-day Adventists, and will you carry out those principles in your life, abstaining from the use of intoxicating liquors, tobacco in all its forms, swine's flesh, and all other unclean foods and habit-forming drugs? [1946 Baptismal Vows adds abstaining from narcotics, tea, coffee, and other harmful things]
​

I was baptized in 1979 and I remember answering that specific question (and many others) in front of the entire church. This statement and many others (actually in the 28 statements) are the reason I asked the questions in the first place.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

About 5 years ago my daughter was baptized, the pastor did not ask her any of the baptismal affirmations. He had gone over with her the baptismal class which had the little workbook they used and I am sure he knew that we did not agree with several of the things in that book.

This is why I say that a number of them are not essential to being a member because the local churches are not required to implement any set of beliefs. The fact is if we had to believe the 28 to be a member we would lose many of our prominent Adventists, Charles Scriven, Graham Maxwell, the late Ray Contrell not to mention a whole host of College Professors in both theology (at least half of the Theology professors are more in line with Ford and Contrell then the official SDA position on the Investigative Judgment) and Science disciplines.

The leadership may want to lay down the law in things like the church manual but in real life they don't have the power to enforce their agenda. Leadership serves at the will of the membership and they know they can't go all Traditional SDA on the North American division, or the Australian division or likely the European division.