I've been thinking a little about this, that if we (I) embrace the consistent hermeneutic that results in so called "full" preterist views, on the surface it appears to come against parts of what is called the apostles creed.
Especially, the part that says "from thence" he shall come to judge the quick and the dead...
But as I researched what I thought was an early catholic church (Nicene) creed, I found that this was supposedly originated with the Apostles themselves.
From Wickipedia:
1 from Jeremiah 31:
A futurist may be inclined to say that the new covenant has not been established; the the vast evidence is to the contrary, including the ending judgment on the old conditional covenant cause by the effect of the blood and will of the new covenant being finished.
Some futurist may be inclined to picture in his mind a global 'kingdom' ruled by Christ sitting on a throne where the nation of Israel (and perhaps those who support a restored old covenant Israel) co-rules with him with a rod of iron, similar to the old covenant law. This is no different from what the Pharisaic Jews sought and what caused them to disbelieve in the Atoning sacrifice of the son of man and the fulfillment of the covenants and prophecies about Christ. This perspective is also part of what drives the continued changing and making of laws that oppress and enslave.
2nd. In 1 John,
However true this MAY be or whatever information this MAY add, one absolutely cannot miss the information/fact that the 2nd perfect tense of the words "IS COME" indicate a once and done activity or event with the same tense used as uttered at the crucifiction when Christ said, "It is finished".
Third:. Paul says to those in 60 AD
He says, the word (Jesus) is near thee, even in their words and in their heart...This would be referring to the Person of Christ in the Person of the Holy Spirit indwelling as John 14-16 re-iterates.
Back to the Apostles Creed..... With the same hermeneutic of considering original audience relevance; one must consider the historical and consonantal circumstances of the original "creed" makers. From whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead did occure when the judgment empowered from HIM (GOD) from heaven happened against the end fruit of the oppression of the law, in favor of the saints of the most high and the covenant of mercy/law of love as described in Dan 7:26; 27.
John also was given implication that He would live till Jesus came.... (not that he would not die) ....Jesus said.. what if I would that he remain (alive) till I come; what is that to you....? And John did live till Jesus came 'through the minds of the leaders of the enemies as he fore-ordained the thoughts and actions of the Romans soldiers and commanders from Heaven in 66-70 AD. This was his coming in the enforcement of the enactment of the Laws of the new covenant from Heaven that were fully empowered by the atonement of Christ and the establishment of righteousness by faith for those who believe.
And John also lived till Jesus came for him a second time at the end of his life. (perhaps living through numerous presences)
Thus, again, back the Apostles creed; It is not the preterist who is the heretic against the apostles creed; because a preterist can understand the original pre-desolation, pre-latter end judgment of old conditional covenant atmoshphere in which the words were spoken. But, perhaps those who would see the creed as doctrine in it's preset form yet looking to a near future bodily coming might stand in danger of entertaining false doctine, untruth, and even lies from the serpent of babylon.
If a preterist were to be able to alter the creed to reflect present doctirne (not saying that they should) they might change the words perhaps to something like this: and he ascended into heaven from where this same Jesus as God himself administered judgment and judged (judges) (between) the quick and the dead.....
Judgment has been established in favor of the saints of the son of man and the kingdom of Peace; The struggle is to live in that kingdom, walking in commands and Rest of the Spirit and being ready to answer those who inquire of the hope that lies within us.
This thread is about as radical and thought provoking as I've written and yet I may not interact with responses in a timely manner. I wanted to write it for those who might not consider the 'full' preterism of finished written prophecy or the appearing and coming of Christ from Heaven due to the apostles creed.
Preterists would likely affirm the apostles creed, but understand and interpret it in the light of the historical and covenant contextual setting of the original creedmakers.
Jesus said: I have come that you might have hope of being raptured from your struggle at any time..... NO....
Jesus said, I have come that you might have LIFE in all it's abundance.....INCLUDING making positive impacts into the lives and futures of others...not watching for the end of this world and hoping for it's destruction and struggles.
Especially, the part that says "from thence" he shall come to judge the quick and the dead...
But as I researched what I thought was an early catholic church (Nicene) creed, I found that this was supposedly originated with the Apostles themselves.
From Wickipedia:
The concept of the physical/bodily return of Christ in some future time violates some other stated principles and doctrines in the Scriptures.
1 from Jeremiah 31:
Here above, we read that as long as the earth continues to enjoy the seasons of the sun and moon, the reborn sons of God "like" the individual re-named Israel (not national/corporal, old covenant Israel) will not depart from under the heavens. These are the saints of the son of man; saints of the most high; of all nations/languages/tongues who received the dominion of the everlasting kingdom as described at the end of Daniel 7.
A futurist may be inclined to say that the new covenant has not been established; the the vast evidence is to the contrary, including the ending judgment on the old conditional covenant cause by the effect of the blood and will of the new covenant being finished.
Some futurist may be inclined to picture in his mind a global 'kingdom' ruled by Christ sitting on a throne where the nation of Israel (and perhaps those who support a restored old covenant Israel) co-rules with him with a rod of iron, similar to the old covenant law. This is no different from what the Pharisaic Jews sought and what caused them to disbelieve in the Atoning sacrifice of the son of man and the fulfillment of the covenants and prophecies about Christ. This perspective is also part of what drives the continued changing and making of laws that oppress and enslave.
2nd. In 1 John,
There are "scholars" who say that the emphasis of the phrase "in the flesh" implies a teaching against gnosticism which denied some of the physical/bodily actual living breathing incarnation of Christ into the human realm; This is also some of what is said about parts of the apostles creed.
However true this MAY be or whatever information this MAY add, one absolutely cannot miss the information/fact that the 2nd perfect tense of the words "IS COME" indicate a once and done activity or event with the same tense used as uttered at the crucifiction when Christ said, "It is finished".
Third:. Paul says to those in 60 AD
Here Paul is quoting from Deut 30 which came after the restoration from Babylon and after the circumcision of the heart through faith in the love poured out to individuals through the incarnation and the atoning sacrifice.6But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
He says, the word (Jesus) is near thee, even in their words and in their heart...This would be referring to the Person of Christ in the Person of the Holy Spirit indwelling as John 14-16 re-iterates.
Back to the Apostles Creed..... With the same hermeneutic of considering original audience relevance; one must consider the historical and consonantal circumstances of the original "creed" makers. From whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead did occure when the judgment empowered from HIM (GOD) from heaven happened against the end fruit of the oppression of the law, in favor of the saints of the most high and the covenant of mercy/law of love as described in Dan 7:26; 27.
John also was given implication that He would live till Jesus came.... (not that he would not die) ....Jesus said.. what if I would that he remain (alive) till I come; what is that to you....? And John did live till Jesus came 'through the minds of the leaders of the enemies as he fore-ordained the thoughts and actions of the Romans soldiers and commanders from Heaven in 66-70 AD. This was his coming in the enforcement of the enactment of the Laws of the new covenant from Heaven that were fully empowered by the atonement of Christ and the establishment of righteousness by faith for those who believe.
And John also lived till Jesus came for him a second time at the end of his life. (perhaps living through numerous presences)
Thus, again, back the Apostles creed; It is not the preterist who is the heretic against the apostles creed; because a preterist can understand the original pre-desolation, pre-latter end judgment of old conditional covenant atmoshphere in which the words were spoken. But, perhaps those who would see the creed as doctrine in it's preset form yet looking to a near future bodily coming might stand in danger of entertaining false doctine, untruth, and even lies from the serpent of babylon.
If a preterist were to be able to alter the creed to reflect present doctirne (not saying that they should) they might change the words perhaps to something like this: and he ascended into heaven from where this same Jesus as God himself administered judgment and judged (judges) (between) the quick and the dead.....
Judgment has been established in favor of the saints of the son of man and the kingdom of Peace; The struggle is to live in that kingdom, walking in commands and Rest of the Spirit and being ready to answer those who inquire of the hope that lies within us.
This thread is about as radical and thought provoking as I've written and yet I may not interact with responses in a timely manner. I wanted to write it for those who might not consider the 'full' preterism of finished written prophecy or the appearing and coming of Christ from Heaven due to the apostles creed.
Preterists would likely affirm the apostles creed, but understand and interpret it in the light of the historical and covenant contextual setting of the original creedmakers.
Jesus said: I have come that you might have hope of being raptured from your struggle at any time..... NO....
Jesus said, I have come that you might have LIFE in all it's abundance.....INCLUDING making positive impacts into the lives and futures of others...not watching for the end of this world and hoping for it's destruction and struggles.
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