Fulfilling Jesus’ Command For Every Follower To Give Up All

[OldWiseGuy]

Ok but Jesus said Luke 16: 9 I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

10 “Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. 11 So if you have not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? 12 And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else’s property, who will give you property of your own?

13 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”

14 The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. 15 He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.

We must not stop giving it away and God will not stop providing for us.

I believe I'm pretty good steward of what God has blessed me with.

 

[Ashley Amos]

There is one huge hole in your logic I think and it is this:
Jesus was literally asking people to follow him.... his FLESHLY body around Israel. He is no longer here in the flesh so we cannot follow his body at all and.... AND few of us are in Israel and know the exact route he took we would have to go there and walk his steps to follow him.
As for selling his stuff, if you were with him when he walked the earth you will realize that he literally fed or had everyone fed that was following him. Since we don't have Jesus giving us a free 2 piece fish dinner every day here we can't think that he will provide for all our needs thus there is no logic that we should give everything up.
Finally we see in the writings after Jesus left that even the Apostles had to rely on others to support them and they were the original ones who followed him. The church cannot support everyone if nobody works or has nothing because they gave it all away some people must have funds to help pay for buildings and bills and other expenses.

Finally the Bible says we are to love our neighbor as OURSELVES. If we don't "give" ourselves things that we need and enjoy our lives that we would give others we are loving others but NOT ourselves. In giving would we want others who aren't Christian at all (our neighbors) to give up everything? Nope because they were never commanded to do so they won't equate our love of God as but insanity so in order to reach folks that live and have stuff we have to live with them and have a certain amount of "stuff" that they can relate to us. Most rich people won't really listen to a homeless person that smells like a garbage dump wearing rags about God but they will listen to someone that has a normal appearance and is clean and has manners.

The Bible never tells us to Tithe in the New Testament but it does say we should give out of our abundance
2 Cor 8. So God desires us to have "extra" or an abundance so that we can give out of more than we need.
It doesn't say to give up everything it equates that we "need" to have things and MORE so we can give.
If you have given everything to follow Jesus now... you will have no abundance to give at all you will have nothing.

1 John 2:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

No he didn’t mean literally to walk around with him as we can see from the above scripture.

I know Jesus did not work in an earthly job he was provided for from God for the heavenly work that he did meaning preaching the gospel and that is what we are meant to do we are meant to preach the gospel and God will provide for us. If we don’t believe this then we lack faith in God’s provision. If God can provide for hundreds of thousands of people in the wilderness then I think you can provide for us and our families.

I don’t know why are you speaking of being in rags when I have clearly stated in the Bible clearly states that God will provide for you if you give up all you are omitting this part of the scripture Luke 12:33. You are limiting God’s power by already imagining that his provision will not be enough. Psalm 78:41 41 Yes, again and again they tempted God,
And limited the Holy One of Israel.

 

[Sophrosyne]

1 John 2:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

No he didn’t mean literally to walk around with him as we can see from the above scripture.

I know Jesus did not work in an earthly job he was provided for from God for the heavenly work that he did meaning preaching the gospel and that is what we are meant to do we are meant to preach the gospel and God will provide for us. If we don’t believe this then we lack faith in God’s provision. If God can provide for hundreds of thousands of people in the wilderness then I think you can provide for us and our families.

I don’t know why are you speaking of being in rags when I have clearly stated in the Bible clearly states that God will provide for you if you give up all you are omitting this part of the scripture Luke 12:33. You are limiting God’s power by already imagining that his provision will not be enough. Psalm 78:41 41 Yes, again and again they tempted God,
And limited the Holy One of Israel.

So in other words you are double speaking. We have to PHYSICALLY give up everything but not Physically walk in his steps. The problem with your logic is that you open the door to simply not give anything to anybody who is a Christian If God will provide for you.... EVERY you that is a believer then NONE of the believers should be giving a believer ANYTHING at all. You make it so that only non Christians who have more than enough will be counted on to support the body of Christ as nobody else will have enough because they are instead having all their needs supplied. God did a lot of miracles for Israel but we don't see that happening the same here. God blesses people so they constantly have an abundance to keep giving and supporting those who have nothing.

 

[Ashley Amos]

So in other words you are double speaking. We have to PHYSICALLY give up everything but not Physically walk in his steps.

I am clearly saying you have to live as Jesus lived and he gave up everything and God provided for him.


The problem with your logic is that you open the door to simply not give anything to anybody who is a Christian If God will provide for you.... EVERY you that is a believer then NONE of the believers should be giving a believer ANYTHING at all.

Where does it state this there are many Christians who are not rich and are in need.

1 John 3:17 If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person?

James 2:15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.


You make it so that only non Christians who have more than enough will be counted on to support the body of Christ as nobody else will have enough because they are instead having all their needs supplied.


Every Christian is at a different point in the journey.




God did a lot of miracles for Israel but we don't see that happening the same here. God blesses people so they constantly have an abundance to keep giving and supporting those who have nothing.

Yes God does consistently bless and provide for his children. But this does not mean through earthly jobs we are meant to preach the gospel and God will add our needs To us. We must be about our fathers business.

 

[Rajni]

It is very simple sell your possessions and give it to the poor and God will provide. If you don’t believe in God’s power and you limit God your tempting the Lord thy God. Psalm 78:41 Yes, again and again they tempted God, And limited the Holy One of Israel.

I don't believe an omnipotent God can be limited by mere mortals such as myself. I don't have that kind of power.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

You have taken the scripture out of context the church of Achaia had promised a gift to Paul and he was telling them how to fulfilled this promise they had made, to set aside some money monthly and also to give cheerfully.

2 Corinthians 9:2 For I know your eagerness to help, and I have been boasting about it to the Macedonians, telling them that since last year you in Achaia were ready to give; and your enthusiasm has stirred most of them to action. 3 But I am sending the brothers in order that our boasting about you in this matter should not prove hollow, but that you may be ready, as I said you would be. 4 For if any Macedonians come with me and find you unprepared, we—not to say anything about you—would be ashamed of having been so confident. 5 So I thought it necessary to urge the brothers to visit you in advance and finish the arrangements for the generous gift you had promised. Then it will be ready as a generous gift, not as one grudgingly given.

Generosity Encouraged
6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.


Secondly what you were speaking of regarding reaping and sowing has nothing to do with gaining money, it is stating those who sow to the flesh meaning listen to the world philosophies will reap destruction and those who sow to the spirit meaning living by Jesus philosophies reap eternal life.

Galatians 6:8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

I have not taken it out of context at all. I'm fully aware of the mentions Paul makes, about bringing a gift, but also of the other scriptures- and real life experience. Vs. 6 and 7 are pretty clear as my response.

I never said one should try to reap money or that only reaping money would happen, and that isn't the case. I merely shared some personal experience. One can possibly reap money, but one can also reap many other things - friends, kindness, love, needed things, when they are needed.

I know someone who left bags of groceries with sick people, quietly and anonymously because it was the right thing to do (not to get anything at all) and had been raised by people who fed others in the same way through the Depression.

Guess what this person received when old and ill....everything that was necessary. It just works out that way.

So please don't twist my words into something I never said or suggested.

Someone who says, "I am giving to get that mansion!" is someone who doesn't get it.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Yes God does consistently bless and provide for his children. But this does not mean through earthly jobs we are meant to preach the gospel and God will add our needs To us. We must be about our fathers business.

You either give it all up and depend totally on Jesus by your own wording or you give up some things and depend on God for some things. You cannot have it both ways and ask people to give everything up while having them work an earthly job. People that work have to have a place to live, a phone, likely a vehicle and work clothes and tools and all sorts of stuff to cope with the job like a bed to sleep in an a bathroom and an alarm clock and so on. It is not giving everything up but giving what I talked about... out of your abundance.

 

[Ashley Amos]

I don't believe an omnipotent God can be limited by mere mortals such as myself. I don't have that kind of power.

Lol You can’t literally limit the power of God I’m saying you are limiting his power within yourself by not believing he can provide.

 

[Ashley Amos]

I have not taken it out of context at all. I'm fully aware of the mentions Paul makes, about bringing a gift, but also of the other scriptures- and real life experience. Vs. 6 and 7 are pretty clear as my response.

I never said one should try to reap money or that only reaping money would happen, and that isn't the case. I merely shared some personal experience. One can possibly reap money, but one can also reap many other things - friends, kindness, love, needed things, when they are needed.

I know someone who left bags of groceries with sick people, quietly and anonymously because it was the right thing to do (not to get anything at all) and had been raised by people who fed others in the same way through the Depression.

Guess what this person received when old and ill....everything that was necessary. It just works out that way.

So please don't twist my words into something I never said or suggested.

Someone who says, "I am giving to get that mansion!" is someone who doesn't get it.

In the beginning of your first reply to me you clearly stated many scenarios in which people gave and got in return. I am not stating this I am stating you give up everything you have and God will provide for you. No matter what you say you are still stating a give to get type scenario. I am not twisting your words this is what you are stating.

 

[Ashley Amos]

You either give it all up and depend totally on Jesus by your own wording or you give up some things and depend on God for some things. You cannot have it both ways and ask people to give everything up while having them work an earthly job. People that work have to have a place to live, a phone, likely a vehicle and work clothes and tools and all sorts of stuff to cope with the job like a bed to sleep in an a bathroom and an alarm clock and so on. It is not giving everything up but giving what I talked about... out of your abundance.

No I am stating you give up everything you have as Jesus said and then God will provide for you. This is not difficult to understand you just like the faith to believe what Jesus has said this is what all the disciples did they give up everything and God provided for them.

 

[Sophrosyne]

No I am stating you give up everything you have as Jesus said and then God will provide for you. This is not difficult to understand you just like the faith to believe what Jesus has said this is what all the disciples did they give up everything and God provided for them.

So now you are saying you shouldn't work a job?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

In the beginning of your first reply to me you clearly stated many scenarios in which people gave and got in return. I am not stating this I am stating you give up everything you have and God will provide for you. No matter what you say you are still stating a give to get type scenario. I am not twisting your words this is what you are stating.

I'm not. I'm saying, just as the Word says, this IS what will happen. This is NOT WHY we give. There is a distinction. We give all because He gave all.

 

[Rajni]

Lol You can’t literally limit the power of God I’m saying you are limiting his power within yourself by not believing he can provide.

You're contradicting yourself.

 

[Ashley Amos]

So now you are saying you shouldn't work a job?

I never said this at any time. From the beginning I have stated you need to do the work of God which is to preach the gospel and God will provide for your needs. I have never said anything different.

 

[Ashley Amos]

You're contradicting yourself.

No I am saying there’s no way that you can limit God’s power you can stop God from creating things and helping believers you have no power at all. But by not believing in God’s word as he stated it that God can do the impossible you are limiting his power within your own beliefs. You are limited God to yourself, you are not actually limiting God for everyone else.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I never said this at any time. From the beginning I have stated you need to do the work of God which is to preach the gospel and God will provide for your needs. I have never said anything different.

One cannot work if one has to give away all their stuff. I have thousands of dollars in tools that I use to do my job to give them up means I cannot work at all till God replaces them or gives me another job.
I can see now my arguments are falling on deaf ears. Jesus was speaking to Jews in Israel assembling an "army" of followers to help spread his word. We now have plenty of people to spread his word no need for each and every one of us to become evangelists that isn't God's design as some are to be preachers, teachers, firemen, doctors, etc and these jobs aren't full time evangelism.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

With respect Ashley, you are proposing (between the lines of course) that we give all to the "church", as exemplified in scripture. The church will then distribute the 'proceeds' to the poor. That be us as we are now 'the poor'. So the church will return our stuff to us as we are now the needy.

I just hope I get my own stuff back.

 

[Ashley Amos]

One cannot work if one has to give away all their stuff. I have thousands of dollars in tools that I use to do my job to give them up means I cannot work at all till God replaces them or gives me another job.
I can see now my arguments are falling on deaf ears. Jesus was speaking to Jews in Israel assembling an "army" of followers to help spread his word. We now have plenty of people to spread his word no need for each and every one of us to become evangelists that isn't God's design as some are to be preachers, teachers, firemen, doctors, etc and these jobs aren't full time evangelism.

LOL the Bible doesn’t say this that summer to be Fireman and lawyers and police officers this is all your conjecture these are your faulse views they’re not biblical. What do you lacking is faith You do not believe in God’s provision and so you try to make the gospel say something that it does not so that you can believe it. Luke chapter 12 Clearly states you must give up all for the kingdom of heaven put the seeking of the kingdom of heaven first and then God will add all your needs to you which is what he did for Jesus and the disciples. Obviously this true gospel of giving up all for Jesus which he mentions more than numerous times in the Bible has not been preached around the world so the job is not been completed instead a compromised and manipulated gospel like the one that you follow is being pushed around the world.

 

[Ashley Amos]

That's just more doublespeak.
I cannot limit God's power, from any angle or perspective, including my own.
I cannot stop God from creating things or helping believers.

The bottom line is I’m saying you have no faith and that is how you’re limiting God.

 

[Ashley Amos]

With respect Ashley, you are proposing (between the lines of course) that we give all to the "church", as exemplified in scripture. The church will then distribute the 'proceeds' to the poor. That be us as we are now 'the poor'. So the church will return our stuff to us as we are now the needy.

I just hope I get my own stuff back.

No not at all I am proposing that you go and sell your possessions and give it to the poor I am coding Jesus from numerous scripture but one of them is Luke chapter 12:22 to 35 you are quoting from the book of acts. I’m not saying what they did was wrong if you wish to give it to the church give it to the church but if you wish to give it to the poor give it to the poor that is what Jesus commanded for us to do. I am in no way shape or form stating that the church will give it back to you with a poor I am clearly stating that God will provide for you as he provided for Jesus as he provided for the children of Israel in the Wilderness. You obviously lack faith in God’s provision. Please try not to put words in my mouth.