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Frustration with Evolution and Creation Debates

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MrSnow

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If the days in the first 2 chapters of Genesis were supposedly long ages according to some TE's and OEC's, why would God say days in the beginning and then days throughtout the whole bible when He talks about days? Why would we as humans (Different Creationists groups in general) have different interpretations as about the first 6 days of Creation and not question the rest of them?

I'm not espousing the "day-age" theory here, but to answer your question:

"I'll pay that bill another day"
"Back in my day..."
"Awake during the day, asleep at night"
"The work day is shorter than it was last century"

Above are four examples of how we, 21st-century, English-speaking Americans, use the word "day" our every day speech. Just because I use the same word in all four of those instances doesn't mean that it means the same thing each time. It all depends on the context.
 
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philadiddle

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what an false accusation. i do trust God and He has shown me that evolution does not exist, is not a possibility and is not of Him. i have shown that through many posts, scriptures and the refusal of evolutionists to provide even 1 passage of scripture that supports their view. so far they have not been able to do so, all they have been able to do is point to secular science and its 'evidence' which is not of God.
So is the earth a sphere? Could you quote a verse to back up your claim? If no, who not?

Is the earth on pillars? Could you quote a verse to back up your claim? I can quote verses to say that it is. (I know we've been down this road before but...) It seems that taking God at His word is a pick and choose game for you. You turn to science when it suites you, but reject science when it doesn't by calling it secular. When your body gets sick do you trust the scientists who have come up with drugs to help you get better?

Somehow, I doubt you will answer these questions head on. Especially the first set of 3. You will dance around them like a politician in a presidential debate.
 
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philadiddle

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I'm not espousing the "day-age" theory here, but to answer your question:

"I'll pay that bill another day"
"Back in my day..."
"Awake during the day, asleep at night"
"The work day is shorter than it was last century"

Above are four examples of how we, 21st-century, English-speaking Americans, use the word "day" our every day speech. Just because I use the same word in all four of those instances doesn't mean that it means the same thing each time. It all depends on the context.
In addition to that, the word "yom" may very well have meant a real 24 hour day, in the context of an allegorical story. This doesn't make the story historically true though.
 
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crawfish

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you are avoiding the issue, which is:

your failure to ground your beliefs in God's word just proves you do not have a spiritual leg to stand on and without God's foundation, you have nothing

address this please.

Why? The statement is patently false, as I do ground all my beliefs in God's word. I simply do not read into it that which God did not intend, and I ask God, through prayer and submission, to guide my mind in my understanding of scripture. That has resulted in a much more enhanced understanding of God's word than I would have had otherwise.

If I thought that what God had written was simply, then I surely would not have prayed for understanding and not been granted it.

In one of Jesus' parables, the pious man prayed thanks for what he was, while the sinner prayed for forgiveness. Jesus stated in no uncertain terms that the latter was justified while the former was not. I have no problem admitting that I'm a sinner and need God's guidance in all things.

read what i wrote and try to not mis-represent what i say:

How am I misrepresenting things? If you based your beliefs solely on the bible you'd reach one conclusion on the matter of the heavens, and if you based it on science you'd reach another conclusion. You accept that the world is round only because it is proven; you have no problem in proclaiming the verses that indicate it is flat an allegory. However, you ONLY DO THIS BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO CHOICE. To deny the earth is a sphere is to deny that the sky is blue.

If you truly trust the literal bible then you'll believe the world is flat and that the scientific fact is just WRONG.


very clear that there is room for science in my world, just not secular man's idea of it. science is a wonderful tool but it cannot be blindly accepted nor put on a pedestal.

i have never told anyone not to do science, just not to follow the world's idea of it and its thinking, theories and conclusions. big difference.

You have made it clear that science is only good for proving what God has already told us. You are so scared to have your core religious beliefs challenged that you choose to scorn anything that might cause concern, without supposing for one second that perhaps you, in your limited knowledge, have not understood God's message fully. When I challenge you on this, you take offense in my tone, but you NEVER ONCE deny that you do not have Godlike understanding of scripture. You seem to have a little trouble with the concept.

what an false accusation. i do trust God and He has shown me that evolution does not exist, is not a possibility and is not of Him. i have shown that through many posts, scriptures and the refusal of evolutionists to provide even 1 passage of scripture that supports their view. so far they have not been able to do so, all they have been able to do is point to secular science and its 'evidence' which is not of God.

There is not one passage of scripture that will prove that aspirin helps aches and pains. There are literally thousands examples of this kind of thing. Scripture doesn't address subjects that it doesn't need to. Scripture doesn't NEED to deal with evolution. It doesn't NEED to deal with astronomy. It doesn't NEED to deal with much of science. It has better things to worry about.

You haven't proven a thing.

nor am i limiting Him, Jesus said it Himself, 'ye shall know the truth...' is He limiting God? the literal creation account, accomplished in 6 days without natural processes is the truth, for it falls in line with ALL the scriptures, even the ones talking about faith.

Of course you don't see it. You are not limited in your view of God's power, you are limited in your imagination of what God can do. When reality breaks that tender barrier, you simply cannot accept it. You are limiting God by thinking you've got it all figured out.
 
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gluadys

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SuperSaint4GodDBZStyle

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Man, it seems as if a lot people are shouting me and Archeologist down. Oh, well, debates are debates. To Archeolgist, how would angels play in this role if evolution occurred in creation when God made angels to be ministering spirits for us? Another question, how would evolution play in this role if Adam was the first man and Jesus was the last?

1 Corinthians 15:45
"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
Also the next 2 verses.
 
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gluadys

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Man, it seems as if a lot people are shouting me and Archeologist down. Oh, well, debates are debates. To Archeolgist, how would angels play in this role if evolution occurred in creation when God made angels to be ministering spirits for us? Another question, how would evolution play in this role if Adam was the first man and Jesus was the last?

1 Corinthians 15:45
"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
Also the next 2 verses.

Archeologist will have his own answer but for what it's worth, here is mine.

Jesus tells us that the angels in heaven neither marry nor are given in marriage. Presumably they do not reproduce either. Therefore angelic beings do not evolve since evolution requires reproduction.

Since many men have been born, lived and died in the 2000 years since Jesus walked the earth in what sense is he "the last man"? Many men have come after him, so how can he be the last one?

When you have answered that question, you can also apply the same sense to Adam as "the first man".
 
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archaeologist

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To Archeolgist, how would angels play in this role if evolution occurred in creation when God made angels to be ministering spirits for us

their role would not be changed. the problem comes in with --how did God create the angels? if He did it differently than man, why? these are issues that would be hidden from us just as how God speaking created all things.

men go to natural processes basically because it is easier for them to grasp and believe. it puts God down a few notches in contrast to the supremacy exhibited by God just speaking things into existence.

secular man wants to be and likes being the dominate species. being humble before someone more powerful than them just goes against the grain for them.

Man, it seems as if a lot people are shouting me and Archeologist down

get used to it. the police should probably send TE's into the slums to combat the gangbangers. (ha ha)

Another question, how would evolution play in this role if Adam was the first man and Jesus was the last?

it doesn't. evolution is an ongoing process with no end in sight so that concept is non-existent in their thinking.

So is the earth a sphere? Could you quote a verse to back up your claim? If no, who not?

Is the earth on pillars? Could you quote a verse to back up your claim? I can quote verses to say that it is. (I know we've been down this road before but...) It seems that taking God at His word is a pick and choose game for you. You turn to science when it suites you, but reject science when it doesn't by calling it secular. When your body gets sick do you trust the scientists who have come up with drugs to help you get better?

Somehow, I doubt you will answer these questions head on. Especially the first set of 3. You will dance around them like a politician in a presidential debate.

it is not a question of can't or won't but if i want to . your questions and many other posters questions are just ridiculous and do not foster a good discussion.

i see a couple questions there which you seem to have answered for yourself and i see a nicely hidden false accusation.

you do not know if God led me to go to a specific doctor for His purpose so your accusation is moot, false and flaming.

Are they tampering with their findings in some way

please quote my exact words as i doubt if i was seaking specifically. i wouldn't have said it if i didn't know the answer already. i will have to find the articles again which may take some time.

as for the two you mentioned, how would i know unless it hit the public news? you seem to think i am clairvoyant.

You are so scared to have your core religious beliefs challenged

i am tired of the false accusations...clean up yor post and present what you want concisely without the insults and jabs. then i will deal with it.
 
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archaeologist

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Archeologist will have his own answer but for what it's worth, here is mine.

Jesus tells us that the angels in heaven neither marry nor are given in marriage. Presumably they do not reproduce either. Therefore angelic beings do not evolve since evolution requires reproduction.

this doesn't even come close to answering the question. angels are supernatural and were not part of Genesis 1's creative act unless someone here can produce a scriture verse to show that they were.

Since many men have been born, lived and died in the 2000 years since Jesus walked the earth in what sense is he "the last man"? Many men have come after him, so how can he be the last one?

you will have to excuse her, she doesn't understand spiritual things to well. this answer is far short of what was asked in the question.
 
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philadiddle

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So is the earth a sphere? Could you quote a verse to back up your claim? If no, who not?

Is the earth on pillars? Could you quote a verse to back up your claim? I can quote verses to say that it is. (I know we've been down this road before but...) It seems that taking God at His word is a pick and choose game for you. You turn to science when it suites you, but reject science when it doesn't by calling it secular. When your body gets sick do you trust the scientists who have come up with drugs to help you get better?

Somehow, I doubt you will answer these questions head on. Especially the first set of 3. You will dance around them like a politician in a presidential debate.
it is not a question of can't or won't but if i want to . your questions and many other posters questions are just ridiculous and do not foster a good discussion.
Let me ask you another way. If a non believer asked you why the Bible said the earth was flat and that the earth was on pillars and why the bible says the earth is the center of the universe, how would you explain it to him?

(I knew you wouldn't answer the questions.)

please quote my exact words as i doubt if i was seaking specifically. i wouldn't have said it if i didn't know the answer already. i will have to find the articles again which may take some time.
ok here, post #30 in this thread

how convenient for evolutionists who skip that part of the process and claim they are honest and objective when in reality they are manipulating the results.
 
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Rudolph Hucker

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... the police should probably send TE's into the slums to combat the gangbangers. (ha ha)

...

That is your considered solution?

Are we to assume that having thus piled the slums high with people, the wide open spaces are to be left free for the creationists?
 
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Assyrian

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If the days in the first 2 chapters of Genesis were supposedly long ages according to some TE's and OEC's, why would God say days in the beginning and then days throughtout the whole bible when He talks about days? Why would we as humans (Different Creationists groups in general) have different interpretations as about the first 6 days of Creation and not question the rest of them?
I know I have had a few discussion with Creationists where we have argued about other figurative days in scripture, claiming day was not used figuratively in Psalm 90:4, Hosea 6:2 or in the Day of the Lord and Day of Vengeance passages.

I think some of the best examples of figurative day in the Genesis debate are Gen 2:4 where the entire work of creation is described as happening in a single day, and 2:17 where either death is figurative of Adam dying in the day he eats of the tree. Because Adam certainly did not die literally on the literal day he ate the fruit.

Another question, how would evolution play in this role if Adam was the first man and Jesus was the last?

1 Corinthians 15:45
"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
Also the next 2 verses.
Paul also calls Jesus the second man v 47. Think about that for a minute, what role would evolution play if there were only two people who ever lived, both male, and they lived thousand of years apart... None. Evolution could not work here. Neither would good old fashioned biblical being fruitful and multiplying. You need male and female living in the same place at the same time. I don't think Paul was being quite literal here :)
 
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gluadys

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this doesn't even come close to answering the question. angels are supernatural and were not part of Genesis 1's creative act unless someone here can produce a scriture verse to show that they were.

Red herring. The questioner did not limit "creation" specifically to the Genesis 1 account. I agree the creation of angels is not alluded to in that account. Nor is it actually described anywhere in scripture. We only know that angels must have been created because otherwise they would be eternal and God would not be the creator of all things. But scripture affirms strongly that God is the creator of all things and nothing that exists was made except by God. Ergo, angels were created, but we do not have specific info about their creation, other than that they were apparently in existence before the foundation of the earth as other scriptures suggest they witnessed the creation of the earth.



you will have to excuse her, she doesn't understand spiritual things to well. this answer is far short of what was asked in the question.

Actually that is not an answer at all. It is called a "clarifying question", a question asked to clarify what the original questioner means. Given the information provided I am curious as to how the original questioner understands Paul's description of Jesus as "the last man".

I might ask you the same question. Since Paul is obviously not speaking in a literal, chronological sense here, just what is he saying about Christ?
 
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crawfish

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i am tired of the false accusations...clean up yor post and present what you want concisely without the insults and jabs. then i will deal with it.

There were no insults and jabs in that post. There were no overt accusations. Your own discourse is full of both; however, in your mind, because you're "righteous" you feel you have the right to act that way. Is that truly Christ-like?

archaeologist said:
you will have to excuse her, she doesn't understand spiritual things to well. this answer is far short of what was asked in the question.

Proof that you can give it out, but you can't take it. Your act of seeming to be so offended and victimized while being piously condescending and insulting is getting tired.
 
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Rudolph Hucker

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...


Proof that you can give it out, but you can't take it. Your act of seeming to be so offended and victimized while being piously condescending and insulting is getting tired ..... .

.... but not unknown.
 
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archaeologist

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ok here, post #30 in this thread

right...a quote taken out of context. you r level of understanding is questionable. did you really get what i was saying or are you assuming a meaning that is ot there?

(I knew you wouldn't answer the questions
you answered them yourself...

I know we've been down this road before but...)

you are just rehashing the questions asked and answered.

If a non believer asked you why the Bible said the earth was fla

you need different defenses, the same arguments are boring. the Bible doesn't trach the earth is flat nor the center of the universe but, you never know, it may quite well be in the center...have you measured lately?
 
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Rudolph Hucker

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.... you are just rehashing the questions asked and answered.

...

Archie, the next question you answer will be the first.

For example, was the number of species (or kinds, I care not) on the ark the same as the number of species (or kinds) now?
 
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