Frustrated

Truthseeker84 · Oct 4, 2011

I am trying to study and learn the truth about the torah and my responsibility as a gentile to it because I don't want to be living in sin if God really wants me to keep it. However I am getting extremely discouraged because I have been reading and studying a simple command to observe the sabbath and I see that we are not to kindle a fire on the sabbath, I have seen people say this means we can't turn on electricity, heat, put a key in the ignition of a car and I know that people have different interpretations and stuff but how do I know what I am supposed to be doing without being in fear that I am violating the law? I'm sorry if I sound ignorant I just want to learn.

ChavaK · Oct 4, 2011

Truthseeker84 said:
this means we can't turn on electricity, heat, put a key in the ignition of a car and I know that people have different interpretations and stuff but how do I know what I am supposed to be doing without being in fear that I am violating the law? I'm sorry if I sound ignorant I just want to learn.

What you are describing is Orthodox Judaism, not the Messianic faith.
Messianics do not follow the Torah in the same way that Jews do, so
you would not be breaking the Law by driving or turning on electricity.

Read through your bible and see what it says that you should be doing.
Ask questions here, it's a great resource.

anisavta · Oct 4, 2011

Wise advice Chava.

ananda · Oct 5, 2011

Truthseeker84 said:
I am trying to study and learn the truth about the torah and my responsibility as a gentile to it because I don't want to be living in sin if God really wants me to keep it.

That is true ... "sin is the transgression of the law" (1Jn 3:4). Elohim does want us to keep His Torah.

However I am getting extremely discouraged because I have been reading and studying a simple command to observe the sabbath and I see that we are not to kindle a fire on the sabbath, I have seen people say this means we can't turn on electricity, heat, put a key in the ignition of a car and I know that people have different interpretations and stuff but how do I know what I am supposed to be doing without being in fear that I am violating the law? I'm sorry if I sound ignorant I just want to learn.

ChavaK is correct ... Judaic traditions (many of which you are describing) are not the same as Scriptural commands. ChavaK also gave good advice - read Scripture, and as you come across His commands, seek to understand the context and see if they apply to you, and pray about how you can keep them.

yonah_mishael · Oct 5, 2011

Not just that you can't put a key into an ignition, you actually have no business touching your car keys on Shabbat. Anything that you would normally use to perform the "work" (that is, mla'chah) is also forbidden to touch. It's called "muktseh." You can't even lift an ink pen on Shabbat! Just FYI.

Truthseeker84 · Oct 5, 2011

yonah_mishael said:
Not just that you can't put a key into an ignition, you actually have no business touching your car keys on Shabbat. Anything that you would normally use to perform the "work" (that is, mla'chah) is also forbidden to touch. It's called "muktseh." You can't even lift an ink pen on Shabbat! Just FYI.

Are you being serious or joking??

yonah_mishael · Oct 5, 2011

Truthseeker84 said:
Are you being serious or joking??

Serious. You also can't rip a piece of paper or mess with a computer, television our other electronic device. No telephones, no alarm clocks that you have to handle, no matches or lighters, hence no smoking, no driving, no cooking our using the microwave oven, no riding a bicycle or horse....

It's pretty serious.

Heber · Oct 5, 2011

yonah_mishael said:
Serious. You also can't rip a piece of paper or mess with a computer, television our other electronic device. No telephones, no alarm clocks that you have to handle, no matches or lighters, hence no smoking, no driving, no cooking or using the microwave oven, no riding a bicycle or horse....

It's pretty serious.

Exactly so, and that is by no means all! I can't understand that some people think it can be done almost at the flick of a switch (if you'll forgive the unintended pun) and the effect on life is just a bit restrictive!

yedida · Oct 5, 2011

Chava gave excellent advice.
The Spirit will lead you if you listen. I use a car because I cannot walk anywhere without a walker and sometimes even that is not enough. The positive command for the Sabbath is to call (or become a part of) a convocation (assembly) so I use a car.
When I'm too ill to attend in person, I can still observe that positive by "attending" a live-feed service online. It's all a matter of attitude and how the Spirit is leading you.
Yeshua said the Spirit would lead you into all truth. Trust Him to do so.
BTW, welcome to our little corner of CF!!

ChavaK · Oct 5, 2011

yedida said:
BTW, welcome to our little corner of CF!!

Study The Manual · Oct 5, 2011

Truthseeker84 said:
I am trying to study and learn the truth about the torah and my responsibility as a gentile to it because I don't want to be living in sin if God really wants me to keep it. However I am getting extremely discouraged because I have been reading and studying a simple command to observe the sabbath and I see that we are not to kindle a fire on the sabbath, I have seen people say this means we can't turn on electricity, heat, put a key in the ignition of a car and I know that people have different interpretations and stuff but how do I know what I am supposed to be doing without being in fear that I am violating the law? I'm sorry if I sound ignorant I just want to learn.

You do not sound ignorant at all, you are studying, researching, learning and using your brain. There is a difference between Torah and Oral Torah...Rabbinic Judism and non-Rabbinic (Google the video, "The Hebrew Yeshua vs. The Greek Jesus" free on Google Video). If you feel the need to follow the Pharisees, you must go that path, but if you feel the need to only follow the written Torah, than you must do that.

Try doing a search for "Sabbath" from the NKJV on Biblegateway.com. Hopefully this will help you decide how you will celebrate the Shabbat (Sabbath).

ChavaK · Oct 5, 2011

Truthseeker84 said:
Are you being serious or joking??

The laws of muktzeh are complex. There are actually two types of
muktzeh (severe and light) and they can, if absolutely needed, be moved.
But that is a whole different story.

It really is not a joke. It focuses one entirely on shabbat. It is a holy
day, and having things be muktze reinforces that.

ChavaK · Oct 5, 2011

Study The Manual said:
. If you feel the need to follow the Pharisees, you must go that path, but if you feel the need to only follow the written Torah, than you must do that.

There really is no need nor obligation for non-Jews to follow the Oral Torah...although of course Messianics do to some degree.

rsduncan · Oct 5, 2011

Truthseeker84,

Your desire to align your thoughts, words and deeds to what G-d would have you to do is the very essence of spirituality. Make sure you hang on to that! It will help you grow and become a more pleasing child of G-d and a delight unto Him...

JRSut1000 · Oct 5, 2011

I don't want to throw a monkey wrench in or cause anyone to stumble, I'll just simply let you know how my husband and I observe Shabbat. But before I do, know that many of us are probably going to have different interpretations as to exactly how Shabbat is carried out and what we should/should not do.

My husband and I are take the Shabbat at a pretty basic level. We don't do any usual work. I don't cook meals on Shabbat, I usually prepare a crockpot meal ahead of time or we just eat lightly (fruit/cheese/crackers/cereal, etc).

This might be a shocker, but we do use our car. But we don't go out to eat or cause anyone to work or anything. We don't go to festivals and markets. Usually its just a nature drive or going to the park.

Sometimes we just stay home and study or relax or pray together and such.

ChavaK · Oct 5, 2011

JRSut1000 said:
This might be a shocker, but we do use our car.

Why would it be a shocker? I thought most Messianics have
no issue with driving on shabbas.

JRSut1000 · Oct 5, 2011

I know a couple who wouldnt do a bible study or come over our house if it fell on Shabbat because of driving.

anisavta · Oct 5, 2011

Most don't. Since most Messianic shuls are not built around a community or neighborhood it is difficult for foot travel. Ours is in a business park area and driving is the only way we can all meet together. Besides we have many who live at least 45 minutes away since we are the only one in our area.

JRSut1000 · Oct 5, 2011

It's hard to interpret Scriptures on this one because cars just weren't around then. THe Scriptures do say don't go outside the camp, but usually the only reason one would go outside the camp is to do business/trade.

JRSut1000 · Oct 5, 2011

Also fires were harder to build back then, it actually took a lot of work! Remember the example Yah made of the man who was gathering sticks on the Sabbath? He probably figured he was smart, get his sticks while the others were resting. Idk, but starting a car just doesn't seem to be offensive to God. I don't think that's how the verses apply in our day and age.

If someone's consiounce (sp?) won't allow them to drive at least for a time while they figure out this whole Sabbath thing, that's fine. I won't force anyone to drive or do anything. It's kind of up for personal interpretation.

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