From the thread "Should Christians touch"

[dayhiker]

ya, no one has to touch. But after those few, I'd encourage the majority of people to touch.
I think its really good for us.

 

[xpower]

Is masturbation Good for human health? what are the health benefits?(scientifically speaking)

 

[Chesterton]

That is fine, but I would ask why you do not want to.

That's why I don't want to, because mastubation is funny, funny to humans but not to animals. And that fact tells me that Christianity is true, and that we have a spiritual aspect which may be hampered by too much indulgence in our baser animal passions. It's similar to one aspect of a reason for fasting, and why gluttony is a sin. You don't just eat all you want just because you can. It's the symbolic sacrifice to creation which I think I might do even if I weren't Christian, just because it seems like an appropriate response for a good person:

"Oscar Wilde said that sunsets were not valued because we could not pay for sunsets. But Oscar Wilde was wrong; we can pay for sunsets. We can pay for them by not being Oscar Wilde." - G.K.C.​

There's also the fact that, as I said, it's embarrassing, and I'm not sure I should be doing something that I wouldn't want people to know. Some might say the embarrassment is due to some kind of cultural baggage, but that just begs the question of why there is baggage to start with. I like the fact of living an honest life, and there's never a time when the phone rings and someone asks me what I'm doing and I have to lie.

Plus, if you ever saw the film Raging Bull you know that the unneccessary expenditure of a man's precious life essence saps strength. I don't know if this is scientifically verified, but LaMotta fought 103 fights without getting knocked off his feet, and at age 95 is today still alive and working.

 

[sparow]

This is the OP of a thread I keep seeing popping up on "Featured Threads" even though the OP was 6 years ago and has not had any dust blown off of it in years. Since the thread is in the "Courting Couples" folder I (being married) did not think it wise to reply there. To me the question is much more broad that just one group of believers. While it certainly is (or at least should be) an issue during courtship, it is also an issue for young and mid teens, single adults and married adults. And it certainly is a question of moral import. Hence its placement here in the ethics and morality folder.

I understand that certain groups have very strong opinions on this (which we will no doubt hear) as do I (which you will also hear later on).

So now I want to open up the discussion "Should Christians touch?"
Please note the question is "Should;" and not "can" or "do." People including Christians do it every day. So obviously we can and do. But should we be doing that? that is the question.

My unqualified opinion is that a psychiatrist would say masturbation for masturbation sake without a mental partner is or would lead to a mental disease; with a mental partner from a God perspective would most likely be adultery. masturbation isn't necessary but it is addictive. There is a saying that may not be true; if you don't use it you will loose it.

 

[dayhiker]

Its pretty easy to find information about the benefits from masturbating on the web.
wiki has a whole bunch of info with over 140 references including a section of benefits. ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masturbation

I've often wondered by we shame people over masturbation. The church seems to be one of the last places that consistently shames people
around this. I spent a lot of time trying to understand this, but every argument they put forth, I couldn't find talked about in the Bible.
There was a lot of cloak and dagger aplying verse to masturbation, but ever time I studied the context it was about something else and
not masturbation.

For the most part I've not found masturbation to be addictive. It doesn't meet the qualification to be addictive. Things like loss of job, friends and family.
If that were the case the world would be like a poor poor slum. Since almost everyone masturbates people would be losing their job left and right, they
wouldn't be going out with friends because they would be home masturbating. To day masturbation is addicting just doesn't add up in my mind.

 

[Dave-W]

For the most part I've not found masturbation to be addictive. It doesn't meet the qualification to be addictive. Things like loss of job, friends and family.

I think the definition of addiction fits:

Addiction noun http://www.dictionary.com

1.the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.

I think anyone who has done this with any kind of regularity and then stops definitely feels some level of trauma.

But that said; food and oxygen also fit the definition of addiction.

But also with that said; it is not masturbation per se that is addictive; rather it is the sexual release of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Masturbating is just the means to the (happy) end.

 

[dayhiker]

Yes, Dave, that similarities to food, water and oxygen is why I'd not put masturbation in the addiction group. Our desire to touch comes from the
intensity of sexual desire we have that I believe God created us with, not a narcotic that we put into out body and that takes over from there. So I see the
trauma of stopping as being going against the way God created us.

One list of addiction traits is:
1. They lie.
2. They manipulate.
3. They are very likely to engage in criminal acts.
4. They will shift blame.
5. An addict is likely to become abusive.

I don't find these qualities to be a central part of the character of people who touch.

 

[Dave-W]

But those are traits associated with addiction; and not the definition of addiction by itself.

 

[dayhiker]

The way I look at it is one masturbating doesn't have several of those traits, then they aren't addicted. How do you look at it?

 

[Dave-W]

I look at it if stopping it gives serious side effects, you are addicted.

To me that fits the dictionary definition.

Example: If I stop breathing, I die; therefore I am addicted to oxygen.

 

[dayhiker]

ahhh ... ok

 

[sparow]

Its pretty easy to find information about the benefits from masturbating on the web.
wiki has a whole bunch of info with over 140 references including a section of benefits. ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masturbation

I've often wondered by we shame people over masturbation. The church seems to be one of the last places that consistently shames people
around this. I spent a lot of time trying to understand this, but every argument they put forth, I couldn't find talked about in the Bible.
There was a lot of cloak and dagger aplying verse to masturbation, but ever time I studied the context it was about something else and
not masturbation.

For the most part I've not found masturbation to be addictive. It doesn't meet the qualification to be addictive. Things like loss of job, friends and family.
If that were the case the world would be like a poor poor slum. Since almost everyone masturbates people would be losing their job left and right, they
wouldn't be going out with friends because they would be home masturbating. To day masturbation is addicting just doesn't add up in my mind.

There is a place in the OT where God curses a man who didn't want children and he was accused of dropping his seed on the ground so that his wife would not get pregnant; God was concerned about him not progenituring. Ever since Adam ate the apple mankind is required to know good from evil and choose good.

I suspect God included masturbation in fornication and this is the time when people call good evil and call evil good; these are very dangerous times for being led astray. one should ask is masturbation Holy, would God do it or is masturbation unclean, is it one of the unclean things that will not enter the kingdom of God?

 

[xpower]

Anything can be addictive, there are people that are addicted to water, work, food and so on. There was even a guy that was addicted to the smell of farts(weird) google it.

 

[Dave-W]

There is a place in the OT where God curses a man who didn't want children and he was accused of dropping his seed on the ground so that his wife would not get pregnant; God was concerned about him not progenituring.

That was Onan in Gen. 38. You miss the story on a couple of important points:

1 - Tamar was not his wife, she was the widow of his dead brother Er.

2 - it was not that he did not want her to get pregnant per se; the text says "He knew the offspring would not be his;" (v 9) which means he wanted to deny his dead brother the birth right which would go then to Er's eldest son.

The implication is that if Tamar's children would have been counted as his own kids, he would have gladly impregnated her.

Given that, this story has nothing to do with masturbating.

 

[dayhiker]

yes, I agree, Dave. So this story is about stealing his brother's birth right by not raising up sons thru his brother's wife and giving that
birth right to his own sons as he verbally committed to do. Thus breaking two commandments thou shall not steal and thou shall not bear false witness.
While neither masturbation or cortius Interuptus are against any commandment.

 

[Dave-W]

Indeed.

Which is where I start getting into the reason I started this thread. I kept on seeing the other thread in Courting Couples "Should Christians touch?" coming up on the Google Ads list; and every time I wanted to scream "YES!!!"

Maybe not every Christian, or at every instance and situation; but in general - YES.

In another thread I listed 3 kinds of false doctrines:

Wrong Doctrines can broken down into various groups:

A There are some that just seem to be annoyances, but do not really affect our walk.

B Others may hinder a proper walk and growth in the Lord.

C Yet others are absolutely dangerous in that they may stop people from coming to faith or may destroy the faith of those already in faith.

I would list the anti-masturbation doctrine a definite B; and leaning heavily toward C.

The guilt that comes from believing it to be a grave sin, and not being able to resist the urge has put almost everyone who has gone thru that hell at odds in their relationship with God and His word. So growth stops. Many of those who actually accomplish getting thru adolescence to marriage with out the big M have done so at the expense of their sex drive in marriage. Those feelings that God designed and called "very good," become the enemy. So you find ways of mentally shutting them down. That does not stop when you say "I do." That is a serious impediment to growing together in the Lord in your marriage.

But for some people it goes past being an impediment (type B). It discourages and condemns them so much that they leave the faith, or their faith never becomes real. In some cases they commit suicide. That is a definite type C.

 

[dayhiker]

All good stuff, Dave. I've mentioned it before, a boy that lived a half mile from me cut off his penis because this false guilt was so strong. Another example of
your type C. I've felt for a very long time that many young people leave the church because of guilt over masturbating. The believe God has the power to set them free
from masturbating. The pray as sincerely as any prayer in their life and they still have the desire to touch as much as even. So they go thru 10 or 20 different ways
to pray, believe, keep busy, cold showers etc ... but nothing changes so the final conclusion to avoid guilt is God isn't real, God doesn't love me and some of us figure out the Bible doesn't say its a sin. But then we need to get to masturbating in faith and with thanksgiving in our heart for what a great gift sex and masturbation it so we can have the joy of the Lord back.

 

[GQ Chris]

uhh

 

[Dave-W]

They believe God has the power to set them free
from masturbating. The pray as sincerely as any prayer in their life and they still have the desire to touch as much as even. So they go thru 10 or 20 different ways to pray, believe, keep busy, cold showers etc ... but nothing changes so the final conclusion to avoid guilt is God isn't real, God doesn't love me...

And that is truly sad and disturbing. They swallow a lie from the devil.

Jesus said "You will know them by their fruits..." (matt 7.20) I apply this not only to people, but to doctrines as well. This one does not yield any good fruit in my opinion.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Is masturbation Good for human health? what are the health benefits?(scientifically speaking)

Well the easy one to point out is stress relief and all the benefits that come from reduced stress. Improved immunity, better circulation and reduced physical strains on your heart, better, more restful sleep, and more focused concentration throughout the day, and better metabolism and digestion are just some of the benefits of reducing stress in your life.