Friendly fire

[chriscomplex]

As much as I understand, Christians are in a war against the prince of the air and his demonic kingdom. But what I see is Christians fighting non believers directly, and then each other. Are they forgetting that their enemies are not in this world, and can't be defeated by harming the host bodies they wish to posses.

But when you can't see the enemy behind the human, you're going to naturally shoot your brothers and sisters (And I do mean all of us)

 

[chevyontheriver]

As much as I understand, Christians are in a war against the prince of the air and his demonic kingdom. But what I see is Christians fighting non believers directly, and then each other. Are they forgetting that their enemies are not in this world, and can't be defeated by harming the host bodies they wish to posses.

But when you can't see the enemy behind the human, you're going to naturally shoot your brothers and sisters (And I do mean all of us)

Christians don't only fight non-believers. Christians reserve their most nasty fighting for each other.

One conceptual model of the Church is that of a ship, particularly a barque, or a fishing vessel from which nets can be deployed. In art it can be represented as pulling stranded people aboard, rescuing them. That's what evangelization ought to be about, rescuing people, pulling them out of the sea and on board. Instead it seems like we do target practice from the deck of the boat on people in the water.

 

[chriscomplex]

Christians don't only fight non-believers. Christians reserve their most nasty fighting for each other.

One conceptual model of the Church is that of a ship, particularly a barque, or a fishing vessel from which nets can be deployed. In art it can be represented as pulling stranded people aboard, rescuing them. That's what evangelization ought to be about, rescuing people, pulling them out of the sea and on board. Instead it seems like we do target practice from the deck of the boat on people in the water.

You need to see what is true to truly save someone, not just think something to be true.

 

[inquiring mind]

Actually, I believe the Bible… and that our enemy is in the world, 1 Peter 5:8 (KJV) “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:” But, you make a good point about not attacking the person, as I’m sure it seems some Christians do.

 

[chevyontheriver]

You need to see what is true to truly save someone, not just think something to be true.

And by this you mean what?

 

[chriscomplex]

Actually, I believe the Bible… and that our enemy is in the world, 1 Peter 5:8 (KJV) “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:” But, you make a good point about not attacking the person, as I’m sure it seems some Christians do.

Satan is not in this physical world, he is in sanctuary.

 

[chriscomplex]

And by this you mean what?

You see the kingdom of God, not think it's true in your minds.

Quick! look that up in the bible.

 

[inquiring mind]

Satan is not in this physical world, he is in sanctuary.

Could you share that Bible verse please?

 

[chriscomplex]

Could you share that Bible verse please?

I don't use the bible, it's old and only a little useful for fact gathering. So I have to rely on my extra sensory perception to fill in the blanks.

 

[chevyontheriver]

You see the kingdom of God, not think it's true in your minds.

You lost me.

 

[inquiring mind]

I don't use the bible, it's old and only a little useful for fact gathering. So I have to rely on my extra sensory perception to fill in the blanks.

I rely on the Bible... Job 1:7(KJV), “And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.”

 

[com7fy8]

I rely on the Bible... Job 1:7(KJV), “And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.”

But this scripture does not say Satan is telling the truth. Satan is a liar and the father of it. So, I would depend on this scripture only to give me an accurate quote of what Satan said, but I would not assume that what he says is true

My personal take is this could have been a conversational statement, like how if you ask a child what he or she has been doing, and she does not want to tell you; so the child says, "things" or "nothing". Satan could mean . . . "oh, I've been going here and there." He does not really answer the question.

 

[inquiring mind]

But this scripture does not say Satan is telling the truth. Satan is a liar and the father of it. So, I would depend on this scripture only to give me an accurate quote of what Satan said, but I would not assume that what he says is true

My personal take is this could have been a conversational statement, like how if you ask a child what he or she has been doing, and she does not want to tell you; so the child says, "things" or "nothing". Satan could mean . . . "oh, I've been going here and there." He does not really answer the question.

What's your take on 1 Peter 5:8?

 

[chriscomplex]

I rely on the Bible... Job 1:7(KJV), “And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.”

Well that's nice, but maybe you should learn more things than just the bible.

I just saying, that's all.

 

[chriscomplex]

You lost me.

Your minds eye sees the spiritual world, you can feel it all around you. You sense it running in the background, and hear it whisper to your soul.

 

[com7fy8]

@chriscomplex Hi I am Bill

I agree that Christians do not need to only or mainly be fighting and attacking non-Christians and each other.

"For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

To me, this means that whoever is really right gets judged "first". So, in case I am the one who is right, I need to first seek how God evaluates me. And seek Him for His correction > Hebrews 12:4-11 < and then be His example >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

And this includes being an example of how God is correcting me.

So, if I see people making a project of criticizing others, I notice if they are at least as thorough to point out how they themselves are wrong, and I notice if they are at least as careful to make us wise to how they themselves can try to fool people. And in case someone does not make an equal project of showing how he or she can be wrong and deceptive, I don't buy that person; but I might pay attention to what he or she says, for however I might benefit from that.

And I note how certain people can criticize how certain people claim to be Christian but they criticize and fight each other, but those criticizing the not really Christian people can also not make sure we know how they themselves can be wrong and deceptive.

And I can be like this. I can be very swift first to point at someone else, and not first respond with prayerful compassion >

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

It is a clever self-trick how certain people can find the ones who are not being Christian, then claim that those wrong ones represent Christianity. Those looking to criticize can find others who are criticizing, but they do not detect and appreciate the ones who are really gentle and humble Jesus people; this way, they can keep their attention elsewhere to excuses.

But the disciples with Jesus were into looking down on others, but Jesus did not give up on them And His example is required of us

 

[com7fy8]

What's your take on 1 Peter 5:8?

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil is walking about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour." (1 Peter 5:8)

Before getting to your point for asking this >

This tells us how we need to "be" . . . not only how to act, but the fact of character which we need. Being "sober" makes us sensible with God who is making us this way, in His love with His love's "knowledge and all discernment" > Philippians 1:9.

In God's love we have His light so we can detect quickly however Satan and his nasty and negative spirit (Ephesians 2:2) would change us away from God and how He rules us in His own peace > Colossians 3:15.

And "vigilant" means to keep alert . . . especially in us, so we do not give in to any emotional stuff or feelings or thoughts and ways of reacting which are not in the ruling of God's peace in our hearts.

So, it is important that we get this, and not only revelation about the devil.

My point was that Satan did not really tell Jesus what Satan had been doing. He only said he went here and there. He did not say he was seeking whom he might devour. But God's word tells us what Satan himself can not be trusted to tell us. God is the One who gives us real revelation, and complete revelation.

By the way I think I have seen how people can make gestures of confessing . . . so they seem so honest. But we might confess what it suits our purpose to confess, but not tell what is deeper and maybe our much more wrong stuff. We might want to deal with things which we know are messing up the lives we want to live; but if something is wrong but not interfering with our selfish lives, we might conveniently not mention this or pray and seek correction for what is not getting in the way of what we want.

But God is the One with the real honesty

 

[inquiring mind]

Well that's nice, but maybe you should learn more things than just the bible.

I just saying, that's all.

There’s nothing wrong with learning other things, but 2 Timothy 3:16-17 tells us the Bible is God-breathed and useful for all training in righteousness. That should be the precedent, wouldn’t you agree. Of course my interpretation is often lacking and needs correction, there’s no denying that.

 

[inquiring mind]

But God is the One with the real honesty

That’s why I take a lot of things in the Bible at face value and resist being highly critical. His Word is for us, and somehow, I just don’t believe He meant for it to be so mysterious and be too over-analyzed.

 

[chriscomplex]

@chriscomplex Hi I am Bill

I agree that Christians do not need to only or mainly be fighting and attacking non-Christians and each other.

"For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

To me, this means that whoever is really right gets judged "first". So, in case I am the one who is right, I need to first seek how God evaluates me. And seek Him for His correction > Hebrews 12:4-11 < and then be His example >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

And this includes being an example of how God is correcting me.

So, if I see people making a project of criticizing others, I notice if they are at least as thorough to point out how they themselves are wrong, and I notice if they are at least as careful to make us wise to how they themselves can try to fool people. And in case someone does not make an equal project of showing how he or she can be wrong and deceptive, I don't buy that person; but I might pay attention to what he or she says, for however I might benefit from that.

And I note how certain people can criticize how certain people claim to be Christian but they criticize and fight each other, but those criticizing the not really Christian people can also not make sure we know how they themselves can be wrong and deceptive.

And I can be like this. I can be very swift first to point at someone else, and not first respond with prayerful compassion >

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

It is a clever self-trick how certain people can find the ones who are not being Christian, then claim that those wrong ones represent Christianity. Those looking to criticize can find others who are criticizing, but they do not detect and appreciate the ones who are really gentle and humble Jesus people; this way, they can keep their attention elsewhere to excuses.

But the disciples with Jesus were into looking down on others, but Jesus did not give up on them And His example is required of us

I expect that your God is going "Mewhaha" after he said all that.