Frequency of Tithes

[rob64]

Thats a good question.

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. (Romans 15:4)

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (2Timothy 3:15-17)

The thing is, the Law that was nail to the cross was the animal sacrifical Law, and not the Ten Commandment.

Its other verses, but I post a couple so you can see that the scriptures (prophets) points to our understand, knowlegde and wisdom, cause thats what jesus and the apostles did, quote the prophets.

Look at what Jesus said here in Matthew 5:17-19)

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Notice what jesus said here Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

We suppose to ask ourself, is heaven and earth till here, is all fulfilled

simple verse people turn up side down

I understand what you saying about tithes being mention in the new testament like the old testament, but the old testament is just as good as the new testament, without both people will lack understanding.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)


peace in jesus name

Peace to you as well !
I am a firm believer in salvation by grace through faith. And I know the importance of the law as well. The law is for the lawless. It's purpose is to show us our need for a savior. But once we recieve Christ as our savior, we are no longer lawless. Therefore the law (for us) has no purpose. Now we have NEWNESS OF LIFE. We have the Holy Ghost within us, and we have His commandments written upon our hearts. Jesus' TWO commandments that is. "Love the Lord..." If we do that, we obviously obey all the commandments.
This is Jesus' own teaching, not rob64's

Again, if we try to keep one part of the law (whether it be tithing, or keeping the Sabbath) and fail, we are guilty of the whole law.

And I'm still looking for concrete evidence-(scripture) with the words, "PAY YOUR TITHE", in the New Covenant.

This is a tradition men have been abusing in order to build their megachurches

What was the tithe collected for in the first place? For the poor and needy. If the tithes taken in churches were actually used as they were supposed to be, there would be no poor people. Nor would there be any welfare system. GREED is a very ugly thing. But yet, it's still there

 

[Bryan Cotton]

(Hebrews 7:3), "Without father, without mother, without decent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life, but made like unto the Son of God;

It says made "like untro" the Son of God. Not THE son of God

Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek."

It says "after" the order.

Please note I'm not well study on Melchizedeck. But with using your own quote, you just made me beleive that Melchizedek is not Jesus, oppose to being Jesus as you stated in a different post. But lets not get off track from this thread. If you like, you can start a Melchizedek is Jesus thread if you like.

 

[Bryan Cotton]

I think it's time for me to exit this thread and go onto other things. But before I do....

but I have yet to find any scripture in the NT that states we are supposed to pay 'tithe'. Everything stems from the Old Testament, or Old Covenant-(same word). My recolection has it as offerings or 'giving' in the NT. Tithing was part of the law. So if people want to obey that part of the law, why aren't they doing their sacrifices?

Exactly. When speaking of tithes, the conversation always go back to someone quoting out of the law, which means theyt have to prove that we are still under the law. People even try to take the story of Ananias in Acts 5 as an example of him dieing because he didn't tithe. But it NEVER says it was a tithe.

So I'm with you Rob64. I'm still waiting forsomeone to show were Jesus, Paul or any biblical teacher under since we've been saved by grace that says Pay tithes.

AND, if we were to even live the law, why don't these tithes teahcers teahc ALL of the law. N O O N E that I've come across who teaches tithing teaches The whole law. You know, all them laws in Number, Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

 

[Bro.T]

Peace to you as well !
I am a firm believer in salvation by grace through faith. And I know the importance of the law as well. The law is for the lawless. It's purpose is to show us our need for a savior. But once we recieve Christ as our savior, we are no longer lawless. Therefore the law (for us) has no purpose. Now we have NEWNESS OF LIFE. We have the Holy Ghost within us, and we have His commandments written upon our hearts. Jesus' TWO commandments that is. "Love the Lord..." If we do that, we obviously obey all the commandments.
This is Jesus' own teaching, not rob64's

Again, if we try to keep one part of the law (whether it be tithing, or keeping the Sabbath) and fail, we are guilty of the whole law.

And I'm still looking for concrete evidence-(scripture) with the words, "PAY YOUR TITHE", in the New Covenant.

This is a tradition men have been abusing in order to build their megachurches

What was the tithe collected for in the first place? For the poor and needy. If the tithes taken in churches were actually used as they were supposed to be, there would be no poor people. Nor would there be any welfare system. GREED is a very ugly thing. But yet, it's still there

The thing is, if you going to nail the ten commandment to the cross, then you are going to have a hard time understanding what you are looking for.

Then it goes into who and why did man change the Lord sabbath Day to the first Day of the week from the seventh Day, then it goes to why the ten commandments tells us to keep the sabbath Day, but its nail to the cross, to many question that don't make sense, but I understand where you coming from.

peace in jesus name

 

[rob64]

I think it's time for me to exit this thread and go onto other things. But before I do....



Exactly. When speaking of tithes, the conversation always go back to someone quoting out of the law, which means theyt have to prove that we are still under the law. People even try to take the story of Ananias in Acts 5 as an example of him dieing because he didn't tithe. But it NEVER says it was a tithe.

So I'm with you Rob64. I'm still waiting forsomeone to show were Jesus, Paul or any biblical teacher under since we've been saved by grace that says Pay tithes.

AND, if we were to even live the law, why don't these tithes teahcers teahc ALL of the law. N O O N E that I've come across who teaches tithing teaches The whole law. You know, all them laws in Number, Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

Hey Bryan Cotton,
Good points! I'll have to remember that for further use!
Have a good one!

 

[rob64]

The thing is, if you going to nail the ten commandment to the cross, then you are going to have a hard time understanding what you are looking for.

I'm not "looking for anything". What are you looking for?

I wouldn't say I'm nailing anything to the cross. Rather, God said in the OT, that His commands will be written on our hearts. It further says somewhere that the things written on stone tablets are now written in the tablets of our heart. It's SCRIPTURE, I'm not making it up. And, to add to it, Jesus summed up the commandments with 2; Love the Lord your God , and love your neighbor as yourself. It's a matter of our hearts. God is concerned with our heart. I'm not saying that the 10 commandment's have been abolished, I am saying that if one is a christian, you don't need them any longer. The 10 commandments/law is there to show man his need of a savior. It's for LAWLESS people. If you are a christian, you have the savior, and are no longer LAWLESS, so your need of the 10 commandments/law is no longer there.

Then it goes into who and why did man change the Lord sabbath Day to the first Day of the week from the seventh Day, then it goes to why the ten commandments tells us to keep the sabbath Day, but its nail to the cross, to many question that don't make sense, but I understand where you coming from

.

We have to understand that the sabbath was based on a jewish calender.

peace in jesus name

Likewise, peace !!!

 

[Bro.T]

Likewise, peace !!!

I thought you was looking for a reason or to understanding why we have to pay tithes, even thought you can't find a verse in the new testament
like the old testament explains

"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because, that in it, He had rested from all his work which God created and made." (Gen 2:1-3).

The bible reveals that God blessed and set apart (sanctified) the seventh day. This day is holy unto God, and it is the only day of the week that we are commanded to honor. "Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation: ye shall do no work therein: it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings."

(Lev 23:3). A holy convocation is an assembly of the people of God, who come together to worship him.

There are two calendars that exist. God's calendar and man's calendar; both consist of seven day weeks. The difference in the two calendars is that God has named the days with numbers, and man has given the days names. God's calendar begins with day 1 and ends with day 7, his weekly Sabbath. Man's calendar names day 1 as, Sunday, and ends with Saturday, day 7, God's weekly Sabbath. Although man's calendar is universal (the same all over the world) the majority of professed Christians worship the Lord on Sunday which is clearly the 1st day of the week not the 7th day that the Lord has hallowed, sanctified and commanded that we keep.

(Ex.31:16-17). If you're a stranger (Non-Israelite), you must also keep the Lord's Sabbath day. "Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love him, to be his servants, every one of them that keepth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Even them will I bring to my Holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar: for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people." (Isaiah 56:6-7).

Even in this day, any Christian not honoring the customs of the Lord is to be cut off from among "The Church" (Israel). "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us." (2Thes 3:6). People, keeping the Sabbath day is apart of that tradition.

We all know that the Sabbath day consist of 24 hours, as all days do. However it is important that we understand that the Lord begins the day with the evening, "And God called the light day, and the darkness was called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." (Gen 1:5). Man begins the day at 12:01 am, so, there is about a six hour difference from sundown (beginning of the day) to midnight. In other words, the seventh day begins Friday at evening, instead of, midnight Friday; thus, the seventh day is sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. As we tend to keeping the whole law of God, we must, also remember to observe the whole day of rest.

Prophecy declared that we would forget to keep the Sabbath holy.

"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy", is what the Lord commands us in the "Ten Commandments", see Ex.20:8-11.Yes, the world has forgotten to sanctify the Sabbath and that is the reason why we (the world) are in such a terrible state today.

"The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, change the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the cursed devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left." (Isaiah 24:5-6).

Let this scripture encourage us not to be "Covenant breakers" and learn how we are to honor the Sabbath by keeping it holy and a sacred day. Men and women of Israel and all that fear God, if we want eternal life in Jesus' Kingdom, and favor with God and man here on earth, we must be Christians, and rejoice in his Sabbath on the Sabbath (7th day).

Listen, people, read your bibles, hear the word of God, take hold of His covenant and follow the example that he has set for us.

If the commandments is written in your heart, then you no to keep the sabbath day on the seventh Day and thou shall not steal and kill and have no other Gods before him, etc.

Those are the two greast commandment, but keep in mind that jesus was quoting moses

Deuteronomy

10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,

10:13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

Leviticus

19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

So jesus was just quoting moses, the laws are still good today

Lets look at somthing Jesus said...

Matthew

19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)

peace in jesus name

 

[marke]

This is not about if we are to tithe or not OR if we are under the law or not. My question is this:

When were tithes suppose to be paid for the people in the bible who are commanded to tithe Was it weekly, yearly, Ever 3 years, every seven years?

I ask because I hear some preacher pretty much saying you should tithe everytiem you get a pay check. Some say you should bring a tithe and/or offering EVERY time you come to church.

I can not find scriptures to indicate that tithe giving was every week or every time you step inside a church.

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED SOME PREACHER SAID THAT. JET FUEL IS GETTING EXPENSIVE THESE DAYS.

Following blindly you all end up in the ditch. So much wrong teaching out there. Read the NT to discern wrong from right or share the fate of the unbelievers. Times are getting serious. The mark of the beast is at hand.

 

[marke]

And I'm still looking for concrete evidence-(scripture) with the words, "PAY YOUR TITHE", in the New Covenant.

This is a tradition men have been abusing in order to build their megachurches

What was the tithe collected for in the first place? For the poor and needy. If the tithes taken in churches were actually used as they were supposed to be, there would be no poor people. Nor would there be any welfare system. GREED is a very ugly thing. But yet, it's still there

Don't waste your time searching the NT, Rob64. The scripture doesn't exist. Let those who want to believe it point it out. Have them invest their time. As in many false beliefs in so called "Christianity" today, they will argue the point until the cows come home and still won't produce any scripture to support their assertions. They will just scream louder which according to the NT will prove whom they serve by their actions. Sad really.

 

[dies-l]

In reading through all of the anti-tithing sentiments, especially those who accuse the church of using the doctrine of tithing to exploit their members, I am somewhat confused. Who is supposed to pay the expenses of running a church (i.e., rent, mortgage, electricity, heat, outreach expenses and so forth)? Shouldn't this be the responsibility of the members of the church as a whole? And, shouldn't we as the members of the body desire to give generously, perhaps well beyond mere tithing? After all, the earliest Christians gave 100% of the income to the church. Why are we so quick to complain about 10%? And, if you are in a church that you do not trust with a mere 10% of your income, why would you trust that church with your spiritual growth? Isn't your relationship with God worth more than your money? And, is it really our money to begin with? Doesn't the Bible the teach the the Earth is the LORD's and everything in it? So it's not like the church is asking us to give our money to it. It is more like God (at least if you believe the Bible when it calls the Church a temple of the Holy Spirit, the body of Christ, etc.) is asking us to share some of His money with Him. Why are we so resistant to do this. It is interesting to me that Western Christians, who are the most financially blesses Christians in the world, are often the stingiest when it comes to giving their income to the church.

Also, do we expect that our pastors and support staff should work for free? Does anyone here work their own full-time job for free? Why should we value those who feed us spiritually and who work to help us to spread the gospel less than we value the people who sell us a cheeseburger at McDonald's? After all, anyone who claims that there is no obligation for members of the body to support the body financially, is essentially wresting on such an assumption.

It is true that salvation is by faith, not by works or by the law. But, it is also true that faith without works is dead. To me, this says that if your actions do not reflect your faith, then you do not really have faith to begin with. So, rather than saying, you should give a tithe because it is demanded in the Bible, it is more accurate to conclude that generous giving will flow out of your faith. And, since the OT tithe was seen as a mandatory minimum, not an aspiration or goal for the Jewish people, we might question if we are truly being generous while refusing to give the minimum. In other words, it is not about earning God's favor through obedience to the law; but rather acting in faith because we trust God to provide for our needs. It is about admitting that it all already belongs to God anyway and so we have no problem sharing some of it with Him. It is about living out our faith rather than just talking about it.

And, as a side note, I want to point out that the vast majority of preachers do fly around in personal jets or live extravagant lifestyles. Rather, the majority earns substantially less than other professionals with similar education and experience. And, I would reiterate one question to anyone who believes that their pastoral staff is too overcompensated to justify your tithe: if you can't trust your pastor to be a good steward of your money (or rather God's money), why would you trust him for anything else?

 

[dies-l]

Don't waste your time searching the NT, Rob64. The scripture doesn't exist. Let those who want to believe it point it out. Have them invest their time. As in many false beliefs in so called "Christianity" today, they will argue the point until the cows come home and still won't produce any scripture to support their assertions. They will just scream louder which according to the NT will prove whom they serve by their actions. Sad really.

The NT does seem to indicate, however, that tithing was not an issue, because the members of the body were giving considerably more than a tithe. I believe that you are within you right not to tithe, and there is no explicit command in the NT (although, I think this is because it was unnecessary because of the overwhelming generosity of the early Church). However, I would wonder, if we truly believe that God will take care of our needs and that God is supreme, why we would not trust God with such a small portion of our income?

 

[rob64]

Don't waste your time searching the NT, Rob64. The scripture doesn't exist. Let those who want to believe it point it out. Have them invest their time. As in many false beliefs in so called "Christianity" today, they will argue the point until the cows come home and still won't produce any scripture to support their assertions. They will just scream louder which according to the NT will prove whom they serve by their actions. Sad really.

You've given me some of the best advice so far, marke!
People in general only want to defend their traditions. And don't even have a clue about the TRUTH/The Word/Jesus Christ/Bible (all the same)

I have found that there are 3 kinds of people in the world;

1. The kind that MAKE things happen
2. The kind that WATCH things happen, and,
3. The kind that say, "WHAT JUST HAPPENED ?"

Tradition was what kept the Israelites from getting up and going over the mountain.

 

[rob64]

I thought you was looking for a reason or to understanding why we have to pay tithes, even thought you can't find a verse in the new testament
like the old testament explains

No, I know what the truth of God's word says reqarding GIVING. In the New Covenant, it's no longer about, "If you obey...I'll do this. But If you don't obey...I'll do this". It's not a bunch of rules anymore. The rules that used to be went out with the Old Covenant.

My point was that there are NO SCRIPTURES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT SAY WE ARE TO PAY TITHES IN THE AGE OF GRACE.

In understanding the NT, people need to realize something; It wasn't written to christians alone. There were others who wanted to cling to their tradition of the law. [much like it is today] And some wanted to mix the law in with grace. [much like it is today] And some thought gentiles should be 'circumcised'.
So, some of the content was for the purpose of refuting their claims. But today, people have scales of tradition over their eyes, and cant see the truth. [much like it was back then]
And what is worse, is that pride steps in and takes over; "I have been paying tithes for 15 years, and they are trying to tell me I was wrong all along? Nonsense, I cant be wrong. I must prove it to them"

TRADITION SUCKS

 

[dies-l]

No, I know what the truth of God's word says reqarding GIVING. In the New Covenant, it's no longer about, "If you obey...I'll do this. But If you don't obey...I'll do this". It's not a bunch of rules anymore. The rules that used to be went out with the Old Covenant.

My point was that there are NO SCRIPTURES IN THE NEW TESTAMENT THAT SAY WE ARE TO PAY TITHES IN THE AGE OF GRACE.

In understanding the NT, people need to realize something; It wasn't written to christians alone. There were others who wanted to cling to their tradition of the law. [much like it is today] And some wanted to mix the law in with grace. [much like it is today] And some thought gentiles should be 'circumcised'.
So, some of the content was for the purpose of refuting their claims. But today, people have scales of tradition over their eyes, and cant see the truth. [much like it was back then]
And what is worse, is that pride steps in and takes over; "I have been paying tithes for 15 years, and they are trying to tell me I was wrong all along? Nonsense, I cant be wrong. I must prove it to them"

TRADITION SUCKS

The thing to bear in mind in regard to Christian freedom and tithing is this: being free from the law does not mean that we are free from giving substantially; rather it means that we are no longer constrained by a prescribed amount. If you would prefer to give 11, 12 or even 100%, you are free to do so. It is about giving out of desire, rather than out of obligation. But, we must also remember that our faith is evidenced in our actions. So, if our response to tithing is, "I'm not going to give because I don't have to" or "I'm only going to give this much, because I don't have to give in any more," then we really need to ask ourselves why are we holding back. And, the value of understanding the tithe in the age of the new covenant is this: If the Jews for whom Jesus had not yet died and who were in bondage to the law could give 10% to God, why would we, for whom Christ has died and who are freed by the grace of God, want to give less than that?

 

[rob64]

The thing to bear in mind in regard to Christian freedom and tithing is this: being free from the law does not mean that we are free from giving substantially; rather it means that we are no longer constrained by a prescribed amount. If you would prefer to give 11, 12 or even 100%, you are free to do so. It is about giving out of desire, rather than out of obligation. But, we must also remember that our faith is evidenced in our actions. So, if our response to tithing is, "I'm not going to give because I don't have to" or "I'm only going to give this much, because I don't have to give in any more," then we really need to ask ourselves why are we holding back. And, the value of understanding the tithe in the age of the new covenant is this: If the Jews for whom Jesus had not yet died and who were in bondage to the law could give 10% to God, why would we, for whom Christ has died and who are freed by the grace of God, want to give less than that?

I concur 100%
You've made some profound points.
My beef is with pastors who preach - relentlessly - tithing, when they don't even know the Bible enough to grasp what you just expouded on

 

[Cassidy]

Well I was taught that one can also tithe with their 'time' and stuff like that. There were people in my church that cooked meals for families who were ill or who had just had a baby and things...this is tithing (or giving ; ) ) too. There are those who spent time on the church - maintenance and building etc. It's just not - nor should it be about money...and nor should there be a limit. Let's face it...10% is not a whole lot of 'giving'

 

[savedgeezer]

For those of you who do not see a command to tithe, why don't you look at your giving of your harvest (income) every week as a THANKSGIVING OFFERING to Father for what you have been given?

Stay Blessed

 

[rob64]

For those of you who do not see a command to tithe, why don't you look at your giving of your harvest (income) every week as a THANKSGIVING OFFERING to Father for what you have been given?

Stay Blessed

I look at my giving as giving. I don't have a problem w/ giving. I have a problem w/ people who preach sermons on tithing in order to live it up. I also have a problem w/ the ones who try to inject tithing in their "teaching" others, as tho we're still under the law

 

[Cassidy]

also have a problem w/ the ones who try to inject tithing in their "teaching" others, as tho we're still under the law

This can actually be quite troublesome to a Christian's walk...and could cause all sorts of stumbling blocks and things. I had a friend once who was in tears because her son broke his arm. She couldn't understand why God let this happen because...I quote "I pay my tithes every week".

I just looked at her with my mouth gaping open!

A lot of these preaches have a lot to account for

 

[rob64]

Well I was taught that one can also tithe with their 'time' and stuff like that. There were people in my church that cooked meals for families who were ill or who had just had a baby and things...this is tithing (or giving ; ) ) too. There are those who spent time on the church - maintenance and building etc. It's just not - nor should it be about money...and nor should there be a limit. Let's face it...10% is not a whole lot of 'giving'

I think we have a reward waiting for us on judgement day for anything pertaining to giving. Whether it be time or cash.

In fact, I have a testimony about giving-sort of. I lived in Greenville Ohio at one time. My friend and I were watching the National News about Katrina. They were saying that the amount of volunteers needed after the 'all clear' was given would be astonishing. And, they feared that there would be a serious lack of them. I thought to myself, man if I could only go down there. I only thought this. Well, it would be imposible to actually happen, because I was barely making my rent. So, a week or so later, I got a better job, and started doing maintenance for a lady in exchage for rent. I was finally getting somewhere. I forgot all about Mississippi. But God didn't! One friday night I was at work on a rehab house, and my boss came in and said, "Dog, [that's what they called me] pack your bags, were leaving for Gulfport Mississippi on Sunday night".
He was going to blow some money at the casinos, and had work lined up for us down there. They all stayed for about a month, then went home. I, on the other hand am still here! That's my God!
I was able to help rebuild a church/homeless shelter. I actually ended up at the shelter when everyone else went back to Ohio. But I had a bunk, and boy did God do some awesome stuff. I was right where He wanted me, and I was too! The church that I worked on, man I could tell some bonechilling testimony about that!

Anyway, I think God wants us to the point where giving is not seen as an OBLIGATION to us. He wants us to not even realize we're doing it. Kind of like the sheep who are separated from the goats, when they ask Jesus, "When did we see you thirsty or hungry ?..."
God wants our hearts. He doesnt care the least bit about our money. He owns the cattle... He doesnt need our money, after all, it's all His anyway.
He wants us [without drama] to be benevolent without even knowing what were doing!