Freedom from Sin: Overcoming the Wet Paint Principle (the complete version)

Jason0047 said:

I really don’t like playing guessing games. Please talk to me straight or speak plainly.

Thank you.

Side Note:

Before you referred to the article as being written by someone else and then now you are saying you had wrote it. This is technically lying.

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Jason0047 said:

I really don’t like playing guessing games. Please talk to me straight or speak plainly.

Thank you.

Side Note:

Before you referred to the article as being written by someone else and then now you are saying you had wrote it. This is technically lying.

Click to expand...

Jason0047 said:

Hebrews 10:26 says,
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,”
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Solution:

1 John 1:9 says,
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

As for 1 Corinthians 15:56 talking about how the strength of sin is the Law:

I believe this is in reference to the Law of Moses (and not all Law).

First, in 1 Corinthians 9:8-9, Paul mentions the Law of Moses (Which would later play into his mentioning of the Law in 1 Corinthians 15:56).

Second, Paul says this about the Old Law.

"For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:5-6).

"But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law." (Galatians 5:18).

"But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!" (Galatians 5:22-23).

"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4).
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Jason0047 said:

Before in this write up, you wrote:

"I am not obligated to obey the law for my salvation."
If I fail to obey the law, I am not condemned—but because I am not condemned—because I am born of God—1 John 3:9
—I will not fail to obey the law."
Quote by: Just by Faith.​

You are primarily quoting 1 John 3:9 again (and saying a similar thing). So you are merely repeating yourself. Anyways, the problem we have here is two fold.

#1. You are saying that if you fail to obey God's law, you are not condemned. This means that you can sin and still be saved (Which is an immoral concept and unbiblical one).

#2. You said you will not fail to obey the Law and that your desire to obey the Lord is perfect. Okay. Let me ask you. Do you fail to obey all of God's laws today? All 1,000 + New Testament commands? Is your desire to obey the Lord perfectly count if you fall into sin?

See, the problem I have is that you have a safety net to sin a little and still be saved while you desire to obey God perfectly someday. It just doesn't jive or make any sense.

Besides, you are taking 1 John 3:9 out of context. As I said before, 1 John 3:8 says, "He that committeth sin is of the devil;" 1 John 3:10 says, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

By what you said so far, you want 1 John 3:9 to say one of two things here.
You want it to say that either:

(a) You don't sin when you do sin, (and or):
(b) You will not sin because God will always make you do the right thing (Meaning that your free will is no more or it is seriously limited to God's control).​

However these two interpretations do not work because 1 John 3:8 says if you sin you are of the devil and 1 John 3:10 says that whosoever does not righteousness is not of God. Now, some of those who declare "We can break God's laws and still be saved" will say that 1 John 3:10 is talking generally in regards to doing righteous deeds. They are saying that they will habitually do righteousness but they will not always do righteous things. This does not work because 1 John 3:8 says he that commits sin is of the devil (i.e. a singular act). 1 John 3:15 also says that whosoever hates his brother is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. So how many thoughts or acts of unkindness does it take to hate your brother? It only takes one thought or action to hate your brother; And 1 John 3:15 says that whosoever hates his brother essentially does not have eternal life abiding in them.

Paul says that to love your neighbor is the same as the keeping of the Moral Law (like do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, etc.) (See Romans 13:8-10). Wouldn't loving your neighbor include loving your brother? Most certainly it would. Now, if we disobey God's moral laws were are not loving our neighbor and or our brother; And according to 1 John 3:15, if we hate our brother, no eternal life abides in us. This means there is no salvation for us if we hate our brother. This means you cannot disobey God's laws and still be saved (as so many others in the church today claim).

You also said here that you are forever made perfect by faith in Jesus Christ. First, no Scripture verse ever actually says these kind of words. Second, when Scripture does talk about perfection, it is related many times to taking right actions. For example: When Jesus tells us to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect in Matthew 5, he is saying to pray for our enemies, and to do good unto them. Yet, you have not grasped this concept yet because you said before that you wish wrath upon the moderators of this website.



I have heard this line too many times than I care to count from those who say "We can break God's laws and still be saved." However, no actual verse or set of verses says such a thing.

On the contrary, Scripture says,

"How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;" (Hebrews 2:3).

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
(Hebrews 3:12-14).



The breaking of the Old Law as a whole cannot condemn you, but the breaking of the New Law can condemn you.

"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law." (Romans 2:12).

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13).

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:1).



Paul says work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
When Paul says that the brethren have died to the Law in Romans 7:4, you also have to read Romans 7:6 that says, "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." What is the oldness of the letter? It is the Old Law or the 613 Commands given to Israel. It is not talking about New Covenant law because it had not been written entirely yet. NT Scripture was still being formed at this time. John says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Which is the Second Death) (See Revelation 21:8). There is no mention of a second group of liars who believe in Jesus who will be exempt from going into the Lake of Fire. Jesus warned us about the unprofitable servant being cast into outer darkness. The unprofitable servant was not unprofitable because he did not have a belief alone on Jesus. He was unprofitable because he did not utilize the talents God gave Him.

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Jason0047 said:

Jesus had a good reason to do so.
You don't.
Therein lies the difference.

Jesus is God and He hid His identity because He had a mission to accomplish. That is one of the reasons why He spoke in the third person. Jesus had a good reason. But you do not appear to have a good reason because you just shortly revealed it later.

I would be careful with doing this because most will see it as deceptive if you do not have a good reason for doing so. If you have a good reason, people will understand. For example: If you used a play on words to hide Jews in your home from Nazi's, this would be considered acceptable by most. But if you just did that all the time with people for no real good reason, they will just avoid you because you are not being upfront or straight with them. They will see you as trying to hides things for no good reason and they will think that you are just messing with them (Which is not nice).

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Jason0047 said:

Jesus had a good reason to do so.
You don't.
Therein lies the difference.

Jesus is God and He hid His identity because He had a mission to accomplish. That is one of the reasons why He spoke in the third person. Jesus had a good reason. But you do not appear to have a good reason because you just shortly revealed it later.

I would be careful with doing this because most will see it as deceptive if you do not have a good reason for doing so. If you have a good reason, people will understand. For example: If you used a play on words to hide Jews in your home from Nazi's, this would be considered acceptable by most. But if you just did that all the time with people for no real good reason, they will just avoid you because you are not being upfront or straight with them. They will see you as trying to hides things for no good reason and they will think that you are just messing with them (Which is not nice).

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Jason0047 said:

Scripture teaches that we are saved by God's grace + works and it is not exclusively one or the other alone (We are saved by God's grace: Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5. We are saved by works: Matthew 19:17, James 2:17-18, James 2:24, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 12:14).

For example: 1 John 1:7 says that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses of all sin if we walk in the light. If you were to compare 1 John 1:6-7 you will see similar wording used in 1 John 2:3-4. The words "walk in the light as He is in the light" is another way of saying "keeping God's commandment" and the word "darkness" is in reference to "not keeping his commandments" or "hating your brother."

6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
(1 John 1:6-7).

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
(1 John 2:3-4).

(a) If we say we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness (1:6) = He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments (2:4).

(b) We lie, and do not the truth (1:6) = is a liar, and the truth is not in him (2:4).

(c) If we walk in the light, as he [Christ] is in the light, we have fellowship with another, (1:7) = Hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.​

Anyways, I know what passage the author is referring to here. The author more than likely believes that Paul is talking about his struggle with sin as a Christian (See Romans 7:14-24). However, Paul is actually talking as a Pharisee (Before he became a Christian) who tried to obey a distorted version of God's laws that did not include Jesus or God's grace. The Pharisee religion was all about law and it did not include a Savior or His loving grace of forgiveness. So yes, it is true, if one seeks to follow a salvation system that is only works alone without God's grace, then one will always struggle in trying to keep God's laws. For one needs to get forgiven by God's grace and then the Lord will help the believer from there to obey God's commands.

In Romans 7:6, Paul says we should serve in newness of the spirit and not the oldness of the letter (Which is the Old Law and not the New Testament Scriptures that were still being formed). We are told to SERVE. How do we serve? Do we just do our own thing? No. We follow God's commands in the New Testament. This talk of the Old Law is the context of verses 14-24.

We are dead to the Law by the body of Jesus Christ (Romans 7:4). Would this be the Old Law or ALL law? 1 John 3:23 is a commandment that says we are to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. This is a New Covenant Law. So obviously we are not dead to this Law or Command. The Scriptures also say, "but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent." (Acts of the Apostles 17:30). Are we dead to this Law? Surely not. Jesus said "repent or perish." (Luke 13:3). Peter told Simon to repent (by way of prayer to God) of his wickedness of trying to pay for the gifts of the Holy Spirit so that he may be forgiven (Acts of the Apostles 8:22). Sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). All this lets us know that men of God can break God's laws and they can be separated from GOD because of it. So surely some kind of Law of God is still in effect and has dire consequences for any person's soul who commits them. For Jesus said that if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). If Jesus was talking to unbelievers, this would not make any sense. They would first need to accept Christ. So the only logical conclusion is that Jesus is talking to believers in Matthew 6:15. You do not forgive (i.e. you sin or break this law of God) and you will not be forgiven or saved. 1 John 3:15 says if you hate your brother you are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Again, you hate your brother (which can be a one time act) and you do not have eternal life. It's that simple. Also, Paul condemns circumcision several times. Galatians 5:2 is the biggest verse that condemns circumcision salvationism. Circumcision is an Old Covenant Law and it is not a New Covenant Law. Paul uses the word "law" when he speaks against circumcision. So we have to conclude that Paul is saying we are dead to the Old Covenant Law and not all Law. So again, this talk of the Old Law plays into verses 14-24.

In addition, Romans 8:3-4 says,
3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4).

So which Law did God send His Son for so as to condemn sin in the flesh?
It was the Old Covenant Law.
For when Jesus died on the cross, the temple veil was ripped from top to bottom letting us know that the Old Testament laws were no longer valid because the Old Laws on the animal sacrifices and the priesthood were no longer acceptable.
Jesus Christ was now our Passover Lamb.
Jesus Christ was soon be our Heavenly High Priest (after He ascended to His father after His resurrection 3 days later) so He can be our mediator between God the Father and man.

Romans 8:4 says, "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

This is saying that the righteous part or aspect of the Old Law can be fulfilled in us.

Paul says elsewhere,
8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
(Romans 13:8-10).

So loving your neighbor is the righteousness of the Old Law!
We fulfill this law by walking after the Spirit and not after the flesh (i.e. sin).

So we see a consistent theme here. The word "law" used in general (with no actual description attached to it) is in reference to the Old Law in Romans 7 and Romans 8. This helps us to understand that Paul is telling us his past experience or life as a Pharisee in struggling to keep the Old Law unsuccessfully because he did not have Jesus Christ yet (in verses 14-24).


Furthermore, in Romans 8:2, we see the mention of how there are TWO laws. We also learn from this verse that keeping one of these Laws helps us to be set FREE from the other one.

In Romans 8:2, we see:

Law #1. - Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
This is a New Covenant Law that we are still under. What is this Law?
It is fulfilling the righteousness of the Law (i.e. to love your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10) by walking after the Spirit (See Romans 8:3-4).

Law #2. Sin and Death.
This is in reference to the Old Covenant Law as a whole (i.e. the 613 Old Testament Commands within the Torah). It is called the Law of Sin and Death because you could physically be put to death by not obeying this Law.​

What is the relationship of these two laws in Romans 8:2?

Keeping the New Law helps us to be free of the Old Law.
For there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus who WALK not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1).

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