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You didn't answer the question. Once I'm a Christian, the sin of Adam no longer holds power over me according to the Scriptures, Rom 7.enoch son said:You are born into it because of Adam. But the question is when were we set free? That a good question. I think we are trapped till the body goes. But does God see the sin be for we are born agian? How big is God. This can be a new can of worms!
PatrickM said:If what we are saying is of God, why would God "make" us say things contrary to His will?
enoch son said:Proverbs 16-4 "The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil". NO FREE WILL. Adam had it and Last it. It is now a crused thing. Adam die all die. Jesus give it up freely and saved all. They will bow before Him because of LOVE.
enoch son said:Oh but hell is not in the book. There was a trash dump outside Jerusalem by the name of hell is that what you mean FLY? No the question is Pat when was I forgiven of sin by God? I believe it was before the foundation of the world. When did I become aware of it over 30 yrs. ago. See I think the tree of the knowlegde of good and evil was free will or will. Jesus was the tree of life. Adam chose the wrong tree. So the will you hold onto is the very thing that made man fall. We move and dwell in God (Acts 17) So tell me where can we go that is not in His will? We are lower then the angel right now, but when the change happean we will judge angels. And some of us will be teachers of God to other people. Did you every wonder who these people are? Jesus was rich and became poor to become rich agian. He was higher then the angels then lower then the angels then higher agian. This is are state also. I'm for taken in all of the knowledge of God as I can right now. I have to think outside the box of man. "His way are not our ways". As for John Calvin. He knew alot, but failed to love a lot. He put to many people in damnation because they were not with him. Alot of good docrtine but miss life. But to be fair, the other side was just as bad. They were all men of God but not men of the fullness of God. That my friends is are destiny, WE ARE TO BECOME THE FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES BEFORE HIS RETURN. AND THAT FULLNESS IS THE CHRIST IN US. IT DID NOT HAPPEAN IN OUR FATHER TIME. WE MUST LEARN FROM PAST MISTAKES. WE MUST MOVE IN THE FULLNESS OF THE SPIRIT WITH THE FULLNESS OF LOVE.
enoch son said:If we have free will then please explian the following vers.
1. Eph. 4-6 "one God and Father of ALL who is OVER ALL and through ALL and IN ALL."
2. 1 Cor. 15-28 " And when all things are subject to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subject to the One who subjected all things to Him, that God may be ALL IN ALL".
3. Phll. 2-10 "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth,"
4. Rom. 14-11 "for it is written, As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God."
I do not see free will here?
its called free will and since man heart is continuelly evil Gen 6:5 and are imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth ...PatrickM said:You didn't answer the question. Once I'm a Christian, the sin of Adam no longer holds power over me according to the Scriptures, Rom 7.
So, as a Christian, how do you explain that we, as Christians, still sin?
enoch son said:Lynne; I have enjoy your posts every much in this thread. Fly; as for hell agian. Do you not know you where a worm at one time? Eph. 4-23 the word renewed in this vers. means to change from a worm to a butterfly. There a big word for it I can't spell it and I'm not going to look it up. Is our God a comsuming firier. Then why didn't the bush burn up? Hell is a very interesting topic.It is not what you have been told. B. in Christ welcome. I think what Pat and I can't get across to one other is the fact that my old self is dead, it has passed away. The chruch has told us to take it out and look at it all the time like it some kind of play thing. If God want's it dead and put in the ground that's good enough for me. I believe the word states not looking behind but ahead for the high calling does it not. Why would I want to talk about sin? My sin is as far away from the east is to the west. It has no power over me. I'm been made free from sin and death. Why would a freed man want to go back to jail? I serve at God good pleasure.
enoch son said:Then point was that at one time we where all worms till the spirit of God got us. And turn us around. I did not mean to upset you. But the worm dies not in hell so what happean to it? Does the bad get burn out? Does it change into the butterfly? And oh- by the why great to have you here. Looking forward to talking with you. Your's in Christ ken
Why .... 2 cor 2:11 for we are not ignorant of his devicesenoch son said:Lynne; I have enjoy your posts every much in this thread. Fly; as for hell agian. Do you not know you where a worm at one time? Eph. 4-23 the word renewed in this vers. means to change from a worm to a butterfly. There a big word for it I can't spell it and I'm not going to look it up. Is our God a comsuming firier. Then why didn't the bush burn up? Hell is a very interesting topic.It is not what you have been told. B. in Christ welcome. I think what Pat and I can't get across to one other is the fact that my old self is dead, it has passed away. The chruch has told us to take it out and look at it all the time like it some kind of play thing. If God want's it dead and put in the ground that's good enough for me. I believe the word states not looking behind but ahead for the high calling does it not. Why would I want to talk about sin? My sin is as far away from the east is to the west. It has no power over me. I'm been made free from sin and death. Why would a freed man want to go back to jail? I serve at God good pleasure.
The "power" of sin is dead, but sin is still very real in our lives. To pretend it no longer exists is to ignore what God says in 1John1:8, "If we (Christians) say we have no sin, we deceive oursleves, and the truth is not in us." Yes, we have been set free from the power of sin, but until God creates a new heaven and earth, there is sin still in the world, and it *can* affect us as Christians.enoch son said:I think what Pat and I can't get across to one other is the fact that my old self is dead, it has passed away.
I don't know about your church, but mine certainly doesn't.The chruch has told us to take it out and look at it all the time like it some kind of play thing.
Unfortunately, sin is not "gone", nevertheless, we have been set free from it's grasp. But it must still be in existence, else why Rom 6:12, "Let not sin therefore reign in your moral bodies, to make you obey their passions." Why the admonision unless it is still *possible* for it to happen?If God want's it dead and put in the ground that's good enough for me.
I only talk about it in the context of the original post here which is free will. We must still have the *ability* to chose, or else how do explain the *fact* that Christians still sin?Why would I want to talk about sin? My sin is as far away from the east is to the west. It has no power over me. I'm been made free from sin and death. Why would a freed man want to go back to jail? I serve at God good pleasure.
PatrickM said:The "power" of sin is dead, but sin is still very real in our lives. To pretend it no longer exists is to ignore what God says in 1John1:8, "If we (Christians) say we have no sin, we deceive oursleves, and the truth is not in us." Yes, we have been set free from the power of sin, but until God creates a new heaven and earth, there is sin still in the world, and it *can* affect us as Christians.
I don't know about your church, but mine certainly doesn't.
Unfortunately, sin is not "gone", nevertheless, we have been set free from it's grasp. But it must still be in existence, else why Rom 6:12, "Let not sin therefore reign in your moral bodies, to make you obey their passions." Why the admonision unless it is still *possible* for it to happen?
I only talk about it in the context of the original post here which is free will. We must still have the *ability* to chose, or else how do explain the *fact* that Christians still sin?
And as for the earlier "painter" illustration, yes, the painter is responsible for everything put on the canvas (sp?). The paint does not simply jump onto the painting does it?
To answer it meself, it is *us* who are responsible for sin, even as Christians. God is not the author, nor the "attributor", if you will, of sin. We must not blame Him for our shortcomings! Yes, enoch son, all my *past sin* is nailed to the cross, as well as my present and future sins, but I must take responsibility for my own actions when they are in disobedience to God.
enoch son said:Colossians 3 - 1-17 Why are you in control? My body is dead. The word say's so. If you what to kept on looking at it be my guest. But I'm going to believe what God said it is dead! The victory was won. It hung on a cross with Christ. " Whom the Son set free is free indeed".
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