Free Will

[Neogaia777]

Matthew 7:21- "Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter."

Matthew 12:50- "Anyone who does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister."

John 5:30- "I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will."

John 4:34- "Then Jesus explained: “My nourishment comes from doing the will of God, who sent me, and from finishing his work."

John 6:38- "For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will."

John 6:39- "And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day."

John 7:17- "Anyone who wants to do the will of God will know whether my teaching is from God or is merely my own."

John 7:18- "Those who speak for themselves want glory only for themselves, but a person who seeks to honor the one who sent him speaks truth, not lies."

John 8:26- "I have much to say about you and much to condemn, but I won't. For I say only what I have heard from the one who sent me, and he is completely truthful."

John 8:29- "And the one who sent me is with me—he has not deserted me. For I always do what pleases him."

John 12:45- "For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me."

John 7:28- "While Jesus was teaching in the Temple, he called out, “Yes, you know me, and you know where I come from. But I'm not here on my own. The one who sent me is true, and you don't know him."

John 7:33- "But Jesus told them, “I will be with you only a little longer. Then I will return to the one who sent me."

John 16:5- "But now I am going away to the one who sent me, and not one of you is asking where I am going."


OK, now you may continue.

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Matthew 7:21- "Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter."

Matthew 12:50- "Anyone who does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister."

John 5:30- "I can do nothing on my own. I judge as God tells me. Therefore, my judgment is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will."

John 4:34- "Then Jesus explained: “My nourishment comes from doing the will of God, who sent me, and from finishing his work."

John 6:38- "For I have come down from heaven to do the will of God who sent me, not to do my own will."

John 6:39- "And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day."

John 7:17- "Anyone who wants to do the will of God will know whether my teaching is from God or is merely my own."

John 7:18- "Those who speak for themselves want glory only for themselves, but a person who seeks to honor the one who sent him speaks truth, not lies."

John 8:26- "I have much to say about you and much to condemn, but I won't. For I say only what I have heard from the one who sent me, and he is completely truthful."

John 8:29- "And the one who sent me is with me—he has not deserted me. For I always do what pleases him."

John 12:45- "For when you see me, you are seeing the one who sent me."

John 7:28- "While Jesus was teaching in the Temple, he called out, “Yes, you know me, and you know where I come from. But I'm not here on my own. The one who sent me is true, and you don't know him."

John 7:33- "But Jesus told them, “I will be with you only a little longer. Then I will return to the one who sent me."

John 16:5- "But now I am going away to the one who sent me, and not one of you is asking where I am going."


OK, now you may continue.

God Bless!

Everyone does the will of the Father God in the earth, but not all do the will of Jesus, or of God the Spirit, because they were never meant for Heaven, but were only ever meant for only more of just only here, and this is/has and will continue to be, "forever", just it has always been from forever.

Jesus had two Father's while he was here, etc.

Both are "God", etc.

And both reside in a place called "Heaven", but only one of them is right now currently still doing work here, etc.

The one that is still currently doing work here, is still finding out who is who, and is still finding out all that was/has been already predestin(ated) or foreordained by God "The Father", etc.

Without this being explained to you, you might become confused by maybe some of the above verses I just right now quoted here.

Anyway, please, continue...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Everyone does the will of the Father God in the earth, but not all do the will of Jesus, or of God the Spirit, because they were never meant for Heaven, but were only ever meant for only more of just only here, and this is/has and will continue to be, "forever", just as it always has been from forever.

Jesus had two Father's while he was here, etc.

Both are "God", etc.

And both reside in a place called "Heaven", but only one of them is right now currently still doing work here, etc.

The one that is still currently doing work here, is still finding out who is who, and is still finding out all that was/has been already predestin(ated) or foreordained by God "The Father", etc.

Without this being explained to you, you might become confused by maybe some of the above verses I just right now quoted here.

Anyway, please, continue...

God Bless!

Jesus could not tell you this in all it's fullness while he was here, but he made sure it was there.

God Bless!

 

[renniks]

There must have been a reason to make the decision in the first place. Or else it was random. And the reasons were based on the circumstances. If the circumstances are exactly the same, what prompts a different decision?

So two extremes and nothing in the middle? A reason does not imply that there aren't equally strong reasons to choose a different option.
Do you really believe that you would always choose the same option given the same circumstance?

 

[Bradskii]

So two extremes and nothing in the middle? A reason does not imply that there aren't equally strong reasons to choose a different option.
Do you really believe that you would always choose the same option given the same circumstance?

The reasons are part of the environment in which you make any decision. If you make a conscious decision then you'd be able to say 'I chose X because of A, B and C'. If we re-run the tape and you are making the same choice in exactly the same conditions, then what has been introduced into the environment that would cause a different decision?

Nothing has been introduced. All conditions are identical. What you are suggesting is that you could choose X the one time and then choose Y the next. Why would that happen?

I keep having to ask 'what has changed that would cause a different decision?', but I'm obliged every time to remind you that nothing has changed.

 

[renniks]

The reasons are part of the environment in which you make any decision. If you make a conscious decision then you'd be able to say 'I chose X because of A, B and C'. If we re-run the tape and you are making the same choice in exactly the same conditions, then what has been introduced into the environment that would cause a different decision?

Nothing has been introduced. All conditions are identical. What you are suggesting is that you could choose X the one time and then choose Y the next. Why would that happen?

I keep having to ask 'what has changed that would cause a different decision?', but I'm obliged every time to remind you that nothing has changed.

Seriously? You never pick tea one day and hot chocolate another day?
Or whatever you drink.
We make free will choices daily.

 

[SelfSim]

Nothing has been introduced. All conditions are identical. What you are suggesting is that you could choose X the one time and then choose Y the next. Why would that happen?

No reason. Your premise of '.. reasons' is thereby simply falsified by way asking me (ie: a perfectly valid a test). My response is: 'no reason' .. end of story.

I keep having to ask 'what has changed that would cause a different decision?', but I'm obliged every time to remind you that nothing has changed.

Repeating the belief about changing conditons doesn't change the evidence at hand, when the response given is: 'no reason'.
One has to work from the evidence at hand.

 

[Bradskii]

Seriously? You never pick tea one day and hot chocolate another day?
Or whatever you drink.
We make free will choices daily.

If you think that simply choosing tea over hot chocolate is the definition of free will, then we haven't much to discuss.

 

[Bradskii]

No reason. Your premise of '.. reasons' is thereby simply falsified by way asking me (ie: a perfectly valid a test). My response is: 'no reason' .. end of story.

If there is no reason then the choice is arbitrary and has no reference to free will whatsoever.

 

[renniks]

If you think that simply choosing tea over hot chocolate is the definition of free will, then we haven't much to discuss.

If you can make any arbitrary choice of course you have free will.

 

[Bradskii]

If you can make any arbitrary choice of course you have free will.

Arbitrary means random. A random choice is no different to tossing a coin. To say that it is free will to have chocolate if you toss heads and vanilla if you toss tails is nonsensical.

 

[AV1611VET]

A religious man asks an athiest, “Do we have free will?”
Atheist: “We do, but only because we have no choice!”

 

[Neogaia777]

Arbitrary means random. A random choice is no different to tossing a coin. To say that it is free will to have chocolate if you toss heads and vanilla if you toss tails is nonsensical.

Tossing a coin is not even random, but can be calculated by the factors at hand, the way the person picks up the coin, rests it on their fingers or thumbs, tosses or flips it, force, aerodynamics, how the wind is blowing that day, and any other factors, and how it eventually lands, either heads or tails, etc.

God Bless!

 

[SelfSim]

Arbitrary means random. A random choice is no different to tossing a coin. To say that it is free will to have chocolate if you toss heads and vanilla if you toss tails is nonsensical.

The process producing the choice is not arbitrary .. its: the 'no reason' process and no-one but the chooser knows any more about the choice than the chooser themselves and they told you there was no reason. That's all we have to go on. Those who themselves believe: 'it must be random .. therefore not free will' just substituted their own belief in place of: 'no reason'.

 

[Neogaia777]

No reason. Your premise of '.. reasons' is thereby simply falsified by way asking me (ie: a perfectly valid a test). My response is: 'no reason' .. end of story.
Repeating the belief about changing conditons doesn't change the evidence at hand, when the response given is: 'no reason'.
One has to work from the evidence at hand.

There is no such thing as "no reason", because there is always a reason, and everything is caused, and nothing is truly arbitrary.

Or perhaps you can give me a reason of anything you or I do (or don't do) that was not, or is not caused, ever at all ever, etc?

Please, give us an example, etc?

I am waiting to prove you wrong, etc.

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Seriously? You never pick tea one day and hot chocolate another day?
Or whatever you drink.
We make free will choices daily.

I used to think the way you do, etc.

Lol.

God Bless!

 

[SelfSim]

There is no such thing as "no reason", because there is always a reason, and everything is caused, and nothing is truly arbitrary.

Prove it then .. in order to counter the claim of: 'no reason'.

Or perhaps you can give me a reason of anything you or I do (or don't do) that was not, or is not caused, ever at all ever, etc?
Please, give us an example, etc?

I did .. its: 'no reason'

I am waiting to prove you wrong, etc.

You won't succed without substituting 'no reason' with your own beliefs .. which is no proof of anything.

 

[Neogaia777]

Tossing a coin is not even random, but can be calculated by the factors at hand, the way the person picks up the coin, rests it on their fingers or thumbs, tosses or flips it, force, aerodynamics, how the wind is blowing that day, and any other factors, and how it eventually lands, either heads or tails, etc.

God Bless!

There is mathematics involved that, if we fully knew it all, we would be able to predict it too, etc.

God Bless!

 

[Bradskii]

Tossing a coin is not even random, but can be calculated by the factors at hand, the way the person picks up the coin, rests it on their fingers or thumbs, tosses or flips it, force, aerodynamics, how the wind is blowing that day, and any other factors, and how it eventually lands, either heads or tails, etc.

God Bless!

Then use any other method that you accept as being truly random.

 

[Neogaia777]

Prove it then .. in order to counter the claim of: 'no reason'.
I did .. its: 'no reason'
You won't succed without substituting 'no reason' with your own beliefs .. which is no proof of anything.

Yeah, still waiting on that example first, etc.

God Blessa