"Free Will" is enslaved?

[redleghunter]

Wow loads on Free Will discussions in this forum alone. However, when discussed we sometimes leave out what the Bible says about choices and what or Who governs them. This thread is in reference to Romans 6 where the apostle Paul tells us we are either enslaved to sin leading to death or enslaved to God as instruments of righteousness to God. There's no middle road here. It's an either or and truly Paul is communicating the dichotomy.

So your thoughts? How free is "free will" truly if we are enslaved to either sin and death or God and righteousness?

Romans 6: NASB

1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7for he who has died is freed from sin.

8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

 

[Not David]

I prefer the homily by John Chrysostom:
CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 11 on Romans (Chrysostom)
Rom. VI. 5

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection.

What I had before occasion to remark, that I mention here too, that he continually digresses into exhortation, without making any twofold division as he does in the other Epistles, and setting apart the former portion for doctrines, and the latter for the care of moral instruction. Here then he does not do so, but blends the latter with the subject throughout, so as to gain it an easy admission. Here then he says there are two mortifyings, and two deaths, and that one is done by Christ in Baptism, and the other it is our duty to effect by earnestness afterwards. For that our former sins were buried, came of His gift. But the remaining dead to sin after baptism must be the work of our own earnestness, however much we find God here also giving us large help. For this is not the only thing Baptism has the power to do, to obliterate our former transgressions; for it also secures against subsequent ones. As then in the case of the former, your contribution was faith that they might be obliterated, so also in those subsequent to this, show forth the change in your aims, that you may not defile yourself again. For it is this and the like that he is counselling you when he says, for if we have been planted together in the likeness of His Death, we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection. Do you observe, how he rouses the hearer by leading him straightway up to his Master, and taking great pains to show the strong likeness? This is why he does not say in death, lest you should gainsay it, but, in the likeness of His Death. For our essence itself has not died, but the man of sins, that is, wickedness. And he does not say, for if we have been partakers of the likeness of His Death; but what? If we have been planted together,so, by the mention of planting, giving a hint of the fruit resulting to us from it. For as His Body, by being buried in the earth, brought forth as the fruit of it the salvation of the world; thus ours also, being buried in baptism, bore as fruit righteousness, sanctification, adoption, countless blessings. And it will bear also hereafter the gift of the resurrection. Since then we were buried in water, He in earth, and we in regard to sin, He in regard to His Body, this is why he did not say, we were planted together in His Death, but in the likeness of His Death. For both the one and the other is death, but not that of the same subject. If then he says, we have been planted together in His Death, we shall be in that of His Resurrection, speaking here of the Resurrection which (Gr. be of His Resurrection) is to come. For since when he was upon the subject of the Death before, and said, Do you not know, brethren, that so many of us as were baptized into Christ were baptized into His Death? he had not made any clear statement about the Resurrection, but only about the way of life after baptism, bidding men walk in newness of life; therefore he here resumes the same subject, and proceeds to foretell to us clearly that Resurrection. And that you may know that he is not speaking of that resulting from baptism, but about the other, after saying, for if we were planted together in the likeness of His Death, he does not say that we shall be in the likeness of His Resurrection, but we shall belong to the Resurrection. For to prevent your saying, and how, if we did not die as He died, are we to rise as He rose? When he mentioned the Death, he did not say, planted together in the Death,but, in the likeness of His Death. But when he mentioned the Resurrection, he did not say, in the likeness of the Resurrection, but we shall be of the Resurrection itself. And he does not say, We have been made, but we shall be, by this word again plainly meaning that Resurrection which has not yet taken place, but will hereafter. Then with a view to give credibility to what he says, he points out another Resurrection which is brought about here before that one, that from that which is present you may believe also that which is to come. For after saying, we shall be planted together in the Resurrection, he adds,

Ver. 6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed.

So putting together both the cause and the demonstration of the Resurrection which is to come. And he does not say is crucified, but is crucified with Him, so bringing baptism near to the Cross. And on this score also it was that he said above, We have been planted together in the likeness of His Death that the body of sin might be destroyed, not giving that name to this body of ours, but to all iniquity. For as he calls the whole sum of wickedness the old man, thus again the wickedness which is made up of the different parts of iniquity he calls the body of that man. And that what I am saying is not mere guesswork, hearken to Paul's own interpretation of this very thing in what comes next. For after saying, that the body of sin might be destroyed, he adds, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For the way in which I would have it dead is not so that you should be destroyed and die, but so that you sin not. And as he goes on he makes this still clearer.

Ver. 7. For he that is dead, he says, is freed (Gr. justified) from sin.

This he says of every man, that as he that is dead is henceforth freed from sinning, lying as a dead body, so must he that has come up from baptism, since he has died there once for all, remain ever dead to sin. If then you have died in baptism, remain dead, for any one that dies can sin no more; but if you sin, you mar God's gift. After requiring of us then heroism (Gr. philosophy) of this degree, he presently brings in the crown also, in these words.

Ver. 8. Now if we be dead with Christ.

And indeed even before the crown, this is in itself the greater crown, the partaking with our Master. But he says, I give even another reward. Of what kind is it? It is life eternal. For we believe, he says, that we shall also live with Him. And whence is this clear?

Ver. 9. That Christ being raised from the dead, dies no more.

And notice again his undauntedness, and how he makes the thing good from opposite grounds. Since then it was likely that some would feel perplexed at the Cross and the Death, he shows that this very thing is a ground for feeling confident henceforward.

For suppose not, he says, because He once died, that He is mortal, for this is the very reason of His being immortal. For His death has been the death of death, and because He did die, He therefore does not die. For even that death

 

[redleghunter]

I prefer the homily by John Chrysostom:
CHURCH FATHERS: Homily 11 on Romans (Chrysostom)
Rom. VI. 5

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection.

What I had before occasion to remark, that I mention here too, that he continually digresses into exhortation, without making any twofold division as he does in the other Epistles, and setting apart the former portion for doctrines, and the latter for the care of moral instruction. Here then he does not do so, but blends the latter with the subject throughout, so as to gain it an easy admission. Here then he says there are two mortifyings, and two deaths, and that one is done by Christ in Baptism, and the other it is our duty to effect by earnestness afterwards. For that our former sins were buried, came of His gift. But the remaining dead to sin after baptism must be the work of our own earnestness, however much we find God here also giving us large help. For this is not the only thing Baptism has the power to do, to obliterate our former transgressions; for it also secures against subsequent ones. As then in the case of the former, your contribution was faith that they might be obliterated, so also in those subsequent to this, show forth the change in your aims, that you may not defile yourself again. For it is this and the like that he is counselling you when he says, for if we have been planted together in the likeness of His Death, we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection. Do you observe, how he rouses the hearer by leading him straightway up to his Master, and taking great pains to show the strong likeness? This is why he does not say in death, lest you should gainsay it, but, in the likeness of His Death. For our essence itself has not died, but the man of sins, that is, wickedness. And he does not say, for if we have been partakers of the likeness of His Death; but what? If we have been planted together,so, by the mention of planting, giving a hint of the fruit resulting to us from it. For as His Body, by being buried in the earth, brought forth as the fruit of it the salvation of the world; thus ours also, being buried in baptism, bore as fruit righteousness, sanctification, adoption, countless blessings. And it will bear also hereafter the gift of the resurrection. Since then we were buried in water, He in earth, and we in regard to sin, He in regard to His Body, this is why he did not say, we were planted together in His Death, but in the likeness of His Death. For both the one and the other is death, but not that of the same subject. If then he says, we have been planted together in His Death, we shall be in that of His Resurrection, speaking here of the Resurrection which (Gr. be of His Resurrection) is to come. For since when he was upon the subject of the Death before, and said, Do you not know, brethren, that so many of us as were baptized into Christ were baptized into His Death? he had not made any clear statement about the Resurrection, but only about the way of life after baptism, bidding men walk in newness of life; therefore he here resumes the same subject, and proceeds to foretell to us clearly that Resurrection. And that you may know that he is not speaking of that resulting from baptism, but about the other, after saying, for if we were planted together in the likeness of His Death, he does not say that we shall be in the likeness of His Resurrection, but we shall belong to the Resurrection. For to prevent your saying, and how, if we did not die as He died, are we to rise as He rose? When he mentioned the Death, he did not say, planted together in the Death,but, in the likeness of His Death. But when he mentioned the Resurrection, he did not say, in the likeness of the Resurrection, but we shall be of the Resurrection itself. And he does not say, We have been made, but we shall be, by this word again plainly meaning that Resurrection which has not yet taken place, but will hereafter. Then with a view to give credibility to what he says, he points out another Resurrection which is brought about here before that one, that from that which is present you may believe also that which is to come. For after saying, we shall be planted together in the Resurrection, he adds,

Ver. 6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed.

So putting together both the cause and the demonstration of the Resurrection which is to come. And he does not say is crucified, but is crucified with Him, so bringing baptism near to the Cross. And on this score also it was that he said above, We have been planted together in the likeness of His Death that the body of sin might be destroyed, not giving that name to this body of ours, but to all iniquity. For as he calls the whole sum of wickedness the old man, thus again the wickedness which is made up of the different parts of iniquity he calls the body of that man. And that what I am saying is not mere guesswork, hearken to Paul's own interpretation of this very thing in what comes next. For after saying, that the body of sin might be destroyed, he adds, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For the way in which I would have it dead is not so that you should be destroyed and die, but so that you sin not. And as he goes on he makes this still clearer.

Ver. 7. For he that is dead, he says, is freed (Gr. justified) from sin.

This he says of every man, that as he that is dead is henceforth freed from sinning, lying as a dead body, so must he that has come up from baptism, since he has died there once for all, remain ever dead to sin. If then you have died in baptism, remain dead, for any one that dies can sin no more; but if you sin, you mar God's gift. After requiring of us then heroism (Gr. philosophy) of this degree, he presently brings in the crown also, in these words.

Ver. 8. Now if we be dead with Christ.

And indeed even before the crown, this is in itself the greater crown, the partaking with our Master. But he says, I give even another reward. Of what kind is it? It is life eternal. For we believe, he says, that we shall also live with Him. And whence is this clear?

Ver. 9. That Christ being raised from the dead, dies no more.

And notice again his undauntedness, and how he makes the thing good from opposite grounds. Since then it was likely that some would feel perplexed at the Cross and the Death, he shows that this very thing is a ground for feeling confident henceforward.

For suppose not, he says, because He once died, that He is mortal, for this is the very reason of His being immortal. For His death has been the death of death, and because He did die, He therefore does not die. For even that death

St John Chrysostom truly does point out the dichotomy of the two natures. Thanks for this.

 

[TheSeabass]

Wow loads on Free Will discussions in this forum alone. However, when discussed we sometimes leave out what the Bible says about choices and what or Who governs them. This thread is in reference to Romans 6 where the apostle Paul tells us we are either enslaved to sin leading to death or enslaved to God as instruments of righteousness to God. There's no middle road here. It's an either or and truly Paul is communicating the dichotomy.

So your thoughts? How free is "free will" truly if we are enslaved to either sin and death or God and righteousness?

Romans 6: NASB

1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7for he who has died is freed from sin.

8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

Romans 6:16 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

Free will is being able to choose between 2 or more options. You freely choose whom you yield yourself to serve, whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness.

 

[redleghunter]

Romans 6:16 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

Free will is being able to choose between 2 or more options. You freely choose whom you yield yourself to serve, whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness.

Do we will ourselves enslaved to sin leading to death to being a slave to God and righteousness? This is the heart of the OP. Meaning...what changed?

 

[bling]

Do we will ourselves enslaved to sin leading to death to being a slave to God and righteousness? This is the heart of the OP. Meaning...what changed?

The Greek word for servant and slave are the same word. Bond servant might fit better some places. God does not have a limited amount of money to by slaves, so some are and some are not because He did not buy them. We have to accept the payment (ransom payment) or reject it.

 

[Anto9us]

"Do not let sin reign in your mortal bodies"
Implies we have a say-so about it -else the command is meaningless.

 

[Hammster]

Free will and free choice are not the same thing.

 

[redleghunter]

The Greek word for servant and slave are the same word. Bond servant might fit better some places. God does not have a limited amount of money to by slaves, so some are and some are not because He did not buy them. We have to accept the payment (ransom payment) or reject it.

But Christ ransomed us.

 

[redleghunter]

"Do not let sin reign in your mortal bodies"
Implies we have a say-so about it -else the command is meaningless.

I thought verse 14 explained this.

 

[redleghunter]

Free will and free choice are not the same thing.

I do believe Paul made that distinction in Romans 6:20-23 (edited). Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[Hammster]

I do believe Paul made that distinction in Romans 6:20-23 (edited). Thank you for pointing that out.

Gotta earn my keep.

 

[RDKirk]

Romans 6:16 "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

Free will is being able to choose between 2 or more options. You freely choose whom you yield yourself to serve, whether sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness.

If you're constrained to only two options, your will is not free. That's like saying a soldier has free will over the cut of his hair because he can choose between short and shorter.

 

[RDKirk]

Wow loads on Free Will discussions in this forum alone. However, when discussed we sometimes leave out what the Bible says about choices and what or Who governs them. This thread is in reference to Romans 6 where the apostle Paul tells us we are either enslaved to sin leading to death or enslaved to God as instruments of righteousness to God. There's no middle road here. It's an either or and truly Paul is communicating the dichotomy.

So your thoughts? How free is "free will" truly if we are enslaved to either sin and death or God and righteousness?

Romans 6: NASB

1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7for he who has died is freed from sin.

8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

I missed where Paul ever mentioned "free will," so there is no dichotomy.

 

[bling]

But Christ ransomed us.

Long story:

Who was paid the ransom?

If you say God, you make Him out to be the criminal undeserving kidnapper, hold back His own children from Himself ?
If you say "satan", you make God out to be to weak to safely take His children from satan without paying satan. It would be wrong for God to pay His enemy a ransom, if God could just as easily and safely take His children back without paying.
If you say: "death, sin, evil or any other intangible you make the ransom unnecessary, since intangibles do not change with a payment.
If you say: "there is no kidnapper" then there is no reason for a ransom payment and you make Jesus, Paul, Peter, John and the Hebrew writer all out to be poor communicators, since they all refer to Christ's crucifixion as a literal ransom scenario.

There is one other possibility, but we need to think about it.
When we go to the nonbeliever we do not try to sell him/her on some doctrine, book or theology, but on "Jesus Christ and Him crucified" which is according to Jesus the ransom payment? If the nonbeliever accepts Jesus and Him crucified a child is released to enter the Kingdom (where God is), but if the nonbeliever does not accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified a child is kept from the kingdom, which all sounds like a kidnapping scenario?

 

[RDKirk]

Free will and free choice are not the same thing.

Particularly when that choice is only possible by the grace of another moral agent, rather than inherent in all moral agents.

And even then, it's only a choice of whom to be enslaved to.

 

[Sabertooth]

Gotta Serve Somebody

 

[Not David]

Long story:

Who was paid the ransom?

If you say God, you make Him out to be the criminal undeserving kidnapper, hold back His own children from Himself ?
If you say "satan", you make God out to be to weak to safely take His children from satan without paying satan. It would be wrong for God to pay His enemy a ransom, if God could just as easily and safely take His children back without paying.
If you say: "death, sin, evil or any other intangible you make the ransom unnecessary, since intangibles do not change with a payment.
If you say: "there is no kidnapper" then there is no reason for a ransom payment and you make Jesus, Paul, Peter, John and the Hebrew writer all out to be poor communicators, since they all refer to Christ's crucifixion as a literal ransom scenario.

There is one other possibility, but we need to think about it.
When we go to the nonbeliever we do not try to sell him/her on some doctrine, book or theology, but on "Jesus Christ and Him crucified" which is according to Jesus the ransom payment? If the nonbeliever accepts Jesus and Him crucified a child is released to enter the Kingdom (where God is), but if the nonbeliever does not accept Jesus Christ and Him crucified a child is kept from the kingdom, which all sounds like a kidnapping scenario?

Satan, sin and death like the Early Church affirmed.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Wow loads on Free Will discussions in this forum alone. However, when discussed we sometimes leave out what the Bible says about choices and what or Who governs them. This thread is in reference to Romans 6 where the apostle Paul tells us we are either enslaved to sin leading to death or enslaved to God as instruments of righteousness to God. There's no middle road here. It's an either or and truly Paul is communicating the dichotomy.

So your thoughts? How free is "free will" truly if we are enslaved to either sin and death or God and righteousness?

Romans 6: NASB

1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7for he who has died is freed from sin.

8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.​

A freed will is a will that is freed from sin when making choices.

When people talk about free will however, they usually mean living life as they please and choosing to be saved.

 

[redleghunter]

A freed will is a will that is freed from sin when making choices.

When people talk about free will however, they usually mean living life as they please and choosing to be saved.

An interesting way you put that.

Basically in order to be free as a slave to sin, we need to be free of the curse of sin?