Free will and predestination

[paul123]

I have heard both sides of the story.
One being that free will and predestination have nothing to do with . That they are on two different sides of the spectrum. You can either choose God or he chooses you. You can have one and not the other.
The other being, that they both happen at the same time. That free will has to do with what we want to do with our lives. What job we want or who we marry or how and when we worship God. To worship how we feel to worship. And that God will either choose us for his own glory or not. The point is that both can exist .
Do you see something I don't? Which is right? Are they both wrong? Is anything close to right?

 

[CSeab]

Consider:
If God predestined your salvation, then why bother with the entire mortal existence bit. Why not just go straight to heaven. Why would an all-loving God require us to go through all this suffering and turmoil?
There is a reason. It is free will. We choose God's goodness or we choose Satan's evil. Do you think God will accept an evil person into His mansion beyond? Isn't that a lot like our world now? Doesn't God promise us a paradise - a land ruled by truth, integrity, justice, compassion?
God gives you the freedom to follow your own paths. If you choose His paths of goodness, then He will invite you to live with Him and others of like mind.
-Christopher Seab

 

[Im_A]

Consider:
If God predestined your salvation, then why bother with the entire mortal existence bit. Why not just go straight to heaven. Why would an all-loving God require us to go through all this suffering and turmoil?
There is a reason. It is free will. We choose God's goodness or we choose Satan's evil. Do you think God will accept an evil person into His mansion beyond? Isn't that a lot like our world now? Doesn't God promise us a paradise - a land ruled by truth, integrity, justice, compassion?
God gives you the freedom to follow your own paths. If you choose His paths of goodness, then He will invite you to live with Him and others of like mind.
-Christopher Seab

if you don't mind me responding here, and please brother, i'm not meaning to start off some heated debate, but where/why does our eternal dwelling in the next life, have any place on our mortal existence?

for a mere example, our mortal existence is still fighting and succumbing to sin even though we have convinced ourselves that we are going to heaven. the place where we go in the afterlife hasn't set us free from committing sin.

i'm not saying one shouldn't have any faith that when they die there is a sense of hope for the future in the afterlife by any means, but to keep our mortal existence in the "salvation of the afterlife" seems to be missing the point in my opinion.

even let's say for the moment, there is no afterlife, no salvation in the afterlife and we all just remain dust in the ground, there is still so much worth in this mortal existence. it's just for the believer, the hope of the afterlife gives us a sense of peace.

plus with all the suffering we go through, does there have to be a greater reason for it? dont' get me wrong, i do believe that God is strengthening, maturing each moment of suffering we go through but sometimes we suffer too just because for no reason. my suffering that i go through now, doesn't lead me to want the next life anymore. it just leads me to want to get it over with in the here and now, and enjoy what God has given me now to be alive on this earth, and i'll wait for the afterlife to come once this life passes on by. i'll either enter in God's prescense when i die, go to some kind of hell, or just not exist anymore.

point is, for me, my mortal existence is just that, and my "salvation" in the next life is that. i want to experience "salvation" the best i can in this mortal existence, and i suppose the hope i do have is, with God everything is possible.

i apologize if i started rambling here.

May God Bless you!

 

[Emmy]

Dear paul123, God gave us free will, to choose our own way to live, here on Earth and with Him and our brothers and sisters for eternity. CSeab explains it well, and if I may, I will explain predestination a bit more. Our God is all-powerful, He is everywhere, and He sees everything. He knows our past, as well as he knows our future, He can see what we have chosen, He knows all our thoughts and wishes. From the way we have chosen ourselves, He will predestine any one, who is right for the role, or the way, to fit into God`s Plan of Redemption, for us. God gave us free will, He will never override our choice, or free will. I say this with humility and conviction, paul123, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[elman]

if you don't mind me responding here, and please brother, i'm not meaning to start off some heated debate, but where/why does our eternal dwelling in the next life, have any place on our mortal existence?

for a mere example, our mortal existence is still fighting and succumbing to sin even though we have convinced ourselves that we are going to heaven. the place where we go in the afterlife hasn't set us free from committing sin.

i'm not saying one shouldn't have any faith that when they die there is a sense of hope for the future in the afterlife by any means, but to keep our mortal existence in the "salvation of the afterlife" seems to be missing the point in my opinion.

even let's say for the moment, there is no afterlife, no salvation in the afterlife and we all just remain dust in the ground, there is still so much worth in this mortal existence. it's just for the believer, the hope of the afterlife gives us a sense of peace.

plus with all the suffering we go through, does there have to be a greater reason for it? dont' get me wrong, i do believe that God is strengthening, maturing each moment of suffering we go through but sometimes we suffer too just because for no reason. my suffering that i go through now, doesn't lead me to want the next life anymore. it just leads me to want to get it over with in the here and now, and enjoy what God has given me now to be alive on this earth, and i'll wait for the afterlife to come once this life passes on by. i'll either enter in God's prescense when i die, go to some kind of hell, or just not exist anymore.

point is, for me, my mortal existence is just that, and my "salvation" in the next life is that. i want to experience "salvation" the best i can in this mortal existence, and i suppose the hope i do have is, with God everything is possible.

i apologize if i started rambling here.

May God Bless you!

I believe we can be physically alive and spiritually alive at the same time. We can also be spiritually dead and physically alive and we can be spiritually alive and spiritually dead. Our mortal existence I believe is connected to our spiritual existence. If we are loving in response to the love of God, God grants us spiritual existence. If not, He leaves us with Hs first gift, mortal existence. If there is not free will, i.e. the ability to be loving or unloving then none of this makes sense.

 

[paul123]

Dear paul123, God gave us free will, to choose our own way to live, here on Earth and with Him and our brothers and sisters for eternity. CSeab explains it well, and if I may, I will explain predestination a bit more. Our God is all-powerful, He is everywhere, and He sees everything. He knows our past, as well as he knows our future, He can see what we have chosen, He knows all our thoughts and wishes. From the way we have chosen ourselves, He will predestine any one, who is right for the role, or the way, to fit into God`s Plan of Redemption, for us. God gave us free will, He will never override our choice, or free will. I say this with humility and conviction, paul123, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

Thank you emmy.
So to go off what you said, is predestination a man made word or is there biblical evidence. I ask cause I don't know. I agree 100% with what you said. I only mean to ask for further understanding. Does God actually do anything ( other then sending His Son) for our salvation (meaning a bystander) or does he just know what is going to happen and plans accordingly or does he choose who will be saved an plan accordingly. This is where my question is and I was not able to put in words till your comment.
Thank you very much emmy.
Your brother in Christ, Paul.