Fox spins proposal to eliminate "So help you God" from committee swearing in

[hedrick]

Apparently this was a proposal by one person, and it was turned down, though only after Republican opposition. I'm surprised it was turned down. The committee seems to be requiring non-Christians to lie and Christians who take Jesus' words literally to violate their religion. I'm surprised to see that kind of thing is still considered acceptable.

 

[Speedwell]

Seriously??

Absolutely. Why should a person be made to swear to a god he doesn't believe in?

 

[super animator]

I take this to mean "eliminating the phrase from swearing in people who are going to testify", and not some variation on "God is eliminated from schools". The fact is it's a discriminatory forced statement that non-believers shouldn't have to make. There's no statutory requirement for the phrase being used by people testifying. And Torcaso v. Watkins showed that, at least at a state level, such forced oaths are a violation of the No Religious Test for Office clause.
Torcaso v. Watkins - Wikipedia

I think the more germane argument is why should it be included in the swearing in oath? Do you think that it somehow makes people more honest and reliable? Because as we saw with Kavenaugh's testimony about his yearbook, that simply isn't the case.

You can't let that go can ya?

 

[Speedwell]

No they could say by Jupiter and if they had no faith it would be meaningless. believe it or not there are people every day who use God's name but have no faith in God.

But why should they be forced to by a secular government?

 

[Speedwell]

There were many things in 1954 that were much better than they are today.

Kids could play on the street and not get shot

People could have an intelligent conversation without resorting to attacks or violence

When kids did got into a physical disagreement it was with fists, not guns, and no one kicked anyone in the head while they were down.

People did not go out of their way to hurt others instead they tried to help each other.

We have made progress in some areas but in many ways we had it much better in 1954 and we lived in a much more civilized society when we had one nation under God and everyone was proud of it.

How old were you in 1954? What part of the country did you live in?

 

[super animator]

There were many things in 1954 that were much better than they are today.

Kids could play on the street and not get shot

People could have an intelligent conversation without resorting to attacks or violence

When kids did got into a physical disagreement it was with fists, not guns, and no one kicked anyone in the head while they were down.

People did not go out of their way to hurt others instead they tried to help each other.

We have made progress in some areas but in many ways we had it much better in 1954 and we lived in a much more civilized society when we had one nation under God and everyone was proud of it.

While conveniently ignore the discrimination that blacks had face during those time periods.
You are blinded by nostalgia.

 

[super animator]

Apparently this was a proposal by one person, and it was turned down, though only after Republican opposition. I'm surprised it was turned down. The committee seems to be requiring non-Christians to lie and Christians who take Jesus' words literally to violate their religion. I'm surprised to see that kind of thing is still considered acceptable.

??

 

[essentialsaltes]

Can you provide an argument as to why God should be eliminated?

The text of the Constitution for the presidential oath (or affirmation)

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:—"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

 

[LoAmmi]

There were many things in 1954 that were much better than they are today.

Kids could play on the street and not get shot

People could have an intelligent conversation without resorting to attacks or violence

When kids did got into a physical disagreement it was with fists, not guns, and no one kicked anyone in the head while they were down.

People did not go out of their way to hurt others instead they tried to help each other.

We have made progress in some areas but in many ways we had it much better in 1954 and we lived in a much more civilized society when we had one nation under God and everyone was proud of it.

Leave it to Beaver is not a documentary.

 

[cow451]

Can you provide an argument as to why God should be eliminated?

God isn’t being eliminated. A religious oath is, however.

 

[cow451]

interesting, I would say that everyone has a god that they worship it may be a being, or their car or house or drugs or themselves. Many of us worship the One True God.

“So help you, [State your higher power]” is a bit clumsy.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

While conveniently ignore the discrimination that blacks had face during those time periods.
You are blinded by nostalgia.

Black people, Native Americans, and every other minority. Basically anyone who wasn't of European descent. WASPs reigned supreme. There were "No Colored" allowed to eat in their restaurants or use the same public restroom as they used or use the same drinking fountain as they used. They could sit at the front of the public bus and all the Colored were pushed to the back of the bus. There were "No Mexicans," "No Indians and dogs," "No Jews," and "Whites Only" reigned supreme during that time.

 

[GreatLakes4Ever]

There were many things in 1954 that were much better than they are today.

Kids could play on the street and not get shot

People could have an intelligent conversation without resorting to attacks or violence

When kids did got into a physical disagreement it was with fists, not guns, and no one kicked anyone in the head while they were down.

People did not go out of their way to hurt others instead they tried to help each other.

We have made progress in some areas but in many ways we had it much better in 1954 and we lived in a much more civilized society when we had one nation under God and everyone was proud of it.

...Women stayed in the kitchen.

Gays stayed in the closet.

Blacks stayed in the back of the bus.






Lots of people would say it was not better.

 

[Sparagmos]

It is asking God to help them to fulfill the oath they are making.

So it’s a prayer. Yeah, requiring ppl to pray, not OK!

 

[zephcom]

...Women stayed in the kitchen.

Gays stayed in the closet.

Blacks stayed in the back of the bus.






Lots of people would say it was not better.

But one was lucky enough to be born a White Male hetro, life was the best it ever was for you. And that is why White Male hetros long to return to the Fifties. It was the Glory Years (tm).

 

[USincognito]

Wait a moment, you, Made a statement adversely reflecting on a Supreme Court Justice and by inference at least said that he lied to Congress under oath, which would be a felony, and now you want to escape any and all responsibility for that statement.

No I asked you a question and you are trying to avoid it by changing the subject with a red herring.

I think the more germane argument is why should it be included in the swearing in oath? Do you think that it somehow makes people more honest and reliable? Because as we saw with Kavenaugh's testimony about his yearbook, that simply isn't the case.

Bolded to help you stay on topic.

 

[USincognito]

Kids could play on the street and not get shot

The number of children killed in random shootings paled in comparison to disease deaths in the 1950s. In 1952 3,100 children died of polio. Doing a brief review of the gun violence deaths of children for 2018 I could only find one death from a drive by (which is what I'm assuming you're alluding to) vs. several incidents of muder/suicide domestic violence or children shooting themselves playing with a gun.
Children Killed or Injured in 2018 | Gun Violence Archive

People could have an intelligent conversation without resorting to attacks or violence

1964

1963

1957

1955

 

[Arcangl86]

The number of children killed in random shootings pale in comparison to disease deaths in the 1950s. In 1952 3,100 children died of polio. Doing a brief review of the gun violence deaths of children for 2018 I could only find one death from a drive by (which is what I'm assuming you're alluding to) vs. several incidents of muder/suicide domestic violence or children shooting themselves playing with a gun.
Children Killed or Injured in 2018 | Gun Violence Archive


1964

1963

1957

1955

Who are the trhee from 64? I don't know them.

 

[USincognito]

Who are the trhee from 64? I don't know them.

Murders of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner - Wikipedia

 

[disciple Clint]

Absolutely. Why should a person be made to swear to a god he doesn't believe in?

Please explain what you mean by "the tyranny of the majority"