Found this article, what do you think?

[LightHorseman]

I want to know homosexuals understand that there are people who are heterosexual who can't help but be heterosexual.
Just like they can't help but be homosexual.

*rolls eyes* OF COURSE homosexuals understand that. I have yet to meet a homosexual who isn't perfectly happy that 95% of the population is heterosexual.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present the root cause of Inviolable's concern over homosexuality, he fundamentally believes that homosexuals want to "convert" him and other heterosexuals.

 

[AdamClarke]

Perhaps I am naive I was hoping for a discussion on the article and on the possible reasons why the majority of African Americans reject the comparison that homosexual rights advocates make.

I really didn't want to discuss the morality, rightness or wrongness of homosexuality. It seems there are numerous threads that already debate those issues.

 

[LightHorseman]

Perhaps I am naive I was hoping for a discussion on the article and on the possible reasons why the majority of African Americans reject the comparison that homosexual rights advocates make.

I really didn't want to discuss the morality, rightness or wrongness of homosexuality. It seems there are numerous threads that already debate those issues.

I suspect that many African Americans reject this comparison for the same reason that many non-African Americans reject the comparison, quite simply, it is inconvenient. When you really are committed to villifying homosexuals, it doesn't help matters to have people pointing out the logical flaws of your position.

 

[Inviolable]

The onus is on you, since you're the one making the positive claim "homosexual marriage threatens my rights". Thats what you said, and thats clearly what you believe, therefore it is up to you to explain how you came to that conclusion.

That’s nice you aren’t afraid to answer my questions – but you didn’t answer my question : What rights of yours are threatened by equality?

Ahh! I see the angle now, it feels as if it took a comity to finally find one.

There are laws that govern what one person does to another and when a persons actions can be reasonably held in question those laws can be referred to as rights.
I want to be assured that homosexuals understand that there are people who can't help be anything but heterosexual. If they can't do this then their state of mind can be held in question.

Can anyone finally answer "any" of the questions I've been asking. At least try to address one of the post I've made with a simple reply that doesn't seem back handed. Or is this a dodge game until someone stumps me?

 

[SughaNSpice]

*rolls eyes* OF COURSE homosexuals understand that. I have yet to meet a homosexual who isn't perfectly happy that 95% of the population is heterosexual.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present the root cause of Inviolable's concern over homosexuality, he fundamentally believes that homosexuals want to "convert" him and other heterosexuals.

I wonder how he thinks this conversion will take place. The orbiting homotron4000 gay ray?

 

[LightHorseman]

Ahh! I see the angle now, it feels as if it took a comity to finally find one.

There are laws that govern what one person does to another and when a persons actions can be reasonably held in question those laws can be referred to as rights.
I want to be assured that homosexuals understand that there are people who can't help be anything but heterosexual. If they can't do this then their state of mind can be held in question.

Can anyone finally answer "any" of the questions I've been asking. At least try to address one of the post I've made with a simple reply that doesn't seem back handed. Or is this a dodge game until someone stumps me?

Its not a dodge game. Your demands are unreasonable.

You want to deny an entire group of people equality because of a fear that any or all of them might not respect your rights... what is this, 2 wrongs make a right?

But even if your demand was reasonable, yopu seem to be applying it unevenly. I assume you are happy for black people to have the same rights as you. Where is the evidence that black people know you can't help being white? Are you a supporter of women's equality? Where is the evidence that women know you can't help being male?

There is not a skerric of evidence to suggest that even a minority of homosexuals think that heterosexuals should be homosexual, or that they fail to grasp that heterosexuality is not a matter of choice, and yet you want to deny them basic rights because they "might" not understand this?

And lastly, even if every single homosexual person really honestly did think that heterosexuals had something wrong with them, even if every single homosexual wanted to convert the entire heterosexual community... even if, I STILL don't see why denying them access to equal rights is necesary or warranted.

 

[SughaNSpice]

I suspect that many African Americans reject this comparison for the same reason that many non-African Americans reject the comparison, quite simply, it is inconvenient. When you really are committed to villifying homosexuals, it doesn't help matters to have people pointing out the logical flaws of your position.

I think you have your answer Adam

 

[AdamClarke]

I suspect that many African Americans reject this comparison for the same reason that many non-African Americans reject the comparison, quite simply, it is inconvenient. When you really are committed to villifying homosexuals, it doesn't help matters to have people pointing out the logical flaws of your position.

But why would African Americans be committed to vilifying homosexual? That is the part I don't understand. If the connection is as clear as some claim why would the most discriminated against minority in our history not recognize it?

I mean at first glance the comparison made sense to me, it seemed logical. That's why I am surprised that it is widely rejected in the African American community.

 

[LightHorseman]

I wonder how he thinks this conversion will take place. The orbiting homotron4000 gay ray?

It quite possibly isn't even a conscious fear. It certainly isn't a rational one. And yet, the longer I spend in these threads and discussions like them in RL, when the anti-homosexual gets right down to it and starts exploring their underlying reasons, this fear ALWAYS seems to be at the root of the matter. "The gays want to convert me or my children". Every single time.

But even if it were true, I don't see how denying homosexuals equal rights is meant to stop the conversion attempts.

 

[SughaNSpice]

Ahh! I see the angle now, it feels as if it took a comity to finally find one.

There are laws that govern what one person does to another and when a persons actions can be reasonably held in question those laws can be referred to as rights.
I want to be assured that homosexuals understand that there are people who can't help be anything but heterosexual. If they can't do this then their state of mind can be held in question.

Can anyone finally answer "any" of the questions I've been asking. At least try to address one of the post I've made with a simple reply that doesn't seem back handed. Or is this a dodge game until someone stumps me?

Still havn't answer my question : What rights of yours are threatened by equality?

 

[SughaNSpice]

But why would African Americans be committed to vilifying homosexual? That is the part I don't understand.

Why are so many Christians committed to vilifying this minority?

Why were (are) so many Christians committed to vilifying blacks?

Why are so many Christians committed to vilifying Muslims?

If the connection is as clear as some claim why would the most discriminated against minority in our history not recognize it?

Convenience


Take a look at some of the attitudes some blacks have against Asians or Hispanics. Prejudice happens even to people who have been victims of it

 

[LightHorseman]

But why would African Americans be committed to vilifying homosexual? That is the part I don't understand. If the connection is as clear as some claim why would the most discriminated against minority in our history not recognize it?

I mean at first glance the comparison made sense to me, it seemed logical. That's why I am surprised that it is widely rejected in the African American community.

For the same reasons that most people who are interested in villifying homosexuals are committed to doing so.

Fear (a big one)
Blind following (i.e. my pastor SAID!)
Scape goating (If those gays weren't demanding equal rights, there'd be more money for your local hospital)

See any combination of the above. I don't think its anythign to do with African Americans being African Americans, I think it has far more to do with the facts that the bulk of African Americans belong to more fundamentalist churches, and have less access to high standards of education. This is in no way their fault, its simply a matter of circumstance.

It is just an irony that the group who were once the most discriminated against are now so heavily involved in the oppression of another group. But the logic endures, even though the African Americans may not like it.

Having been discriminated against in the past does NOT make one exempt from discriminating against people in the future. I mean, the Jews are noted for having had a hard time of things in the past, but Israel is not averse to discriminating against others. Same deal here.

 

[Garyzenuf]

I don't think its anythign to do with African Americans being African Americans, I think it has far more to do with the facts that the bulk of African Americans belong to more fundamentalist churches...

Correct!!! You win a four-slice toaster!!!


Sad how quickly AA's forgot the pain inflicted by discrimination, guess if it's not happening to them it's AOK.

*

 

[Inviolable]

Its not a dodge game. Your demands are unreasonable.

It's been one so far, right up to this point as a matter of fact and now that it seems as if you have me cornered, well, those people who once didn't want to respond, now are.

You want to deny an entire group of people equality because of a fear that any or all of them might not respect your rights...
what is this, 2 wrongs make a right?

No, as a matter of fact I don't. I'd like homosexuals to be honest, I'd like top see them stop with the blame game and for once try and figure out the problems people are having with them. Other then saying, anyone who doesn't agree with them is prejudice or homophobic.
In all honesty, that's the only thing I have for being against giving homosexuals their rights. Their actions in this regard make their motives look questionable.

But even if your demand was reasonable, you seem to be applying it unevenly. I assume you are happy for black people to have the same rights as you. Where is the evidence that black people know you can't help being white? Are you a supporter of women's equality? Where is the evidence that women know you can't help being male?

I've answered this question and several just like it, I've replied to and acknowledged several comments just like the one you've asked above.
In this thread
So before I answer, let me ask you a question.
Why haven't you looked for the post I made that addresses the above statement?
Why do I have to keep repeating everything I say?

There is not a skerric of evidence to suggest that even a minority of homosexuals think that heterosexuals should be homosexual, or that they fail to grasp that heterosexuality is not a matter of choice, and yet you want to deny them basic rights because they "might" not understand this?

Nope, I want to deny them basic rights because that's the issue they constantly dodge. Which puts their motives in question.
You can say things like, "they're happy just to let heterosexuals be who they are" which is fine and something I could very possibly agree with.
But when I say, it's odd behavior or not normal. I get into a 50 page debate with several homosexuals on why homosexuality is normal.

Well, if they're happy being who they are, why even care?

And lastly, even if every single homosexual person really honestly did think that heterosexuals had something wrong with them, even if every single homosexual wanted to convert the entire heterosexual community... even if, I STILL don't see why denying them access to equal rights is necesary or warranted.

You don't think that someone trying to change who you are should be noticed?

 

[Inviolable]

Still havn't answer my question : What rights of yours are threatened by equality?

Wrong,
Your question was answered. I suggest simply, stop asking questions when you won't recognize the answer.

 

[Belk]

Perhaps I am naive I was hoping for a discussion on the article and on the possible reasons why the majority of African Americans reject the comparison that homosexual rights advocates make.

I really didn't want to discuss the morality, rightness or wrongness of homosexuality. It seems there are numerous threads that already debate those issues.

Do the majority of African Americans reject the comparison that homosexual rights advocates make? I'll admit that is my perception as well, but it is not backed up by any hard data. It is simply the perception I got because there are several fundamentalist African American churches here.

 

[LightHorseman]

No, as a matter of fact I don't. I'd like homosexuals to be honest, I'd like top see them stop with the blame game and for once try and figure out the problems people are having with them. Other then saying, anyone who doesn't agree with them is prejudice or homophobic.
In all honesty, that's the only thing I have for being against giving homosexuals their rights. Their actions in this regard make their motives look questionable.

What is questionable about wanting equality?

I've answered this question and several just like it, I've replied to and acknowledged several comments just like the one you've asked above.
In this thread
So before I answer, let me ask you a question.
Why haven't you looked for the post I made that addresses the above statement?
Why do I have to keep repeating everything I say?

Why do you insist on answering questions with questions?

Nope, I want to deny them basic rights because that's the issue they constantly dodge. Which puts their motives in question.
You can say things like, "they're happy just to let heterosexuals be who they are" which is fine and something I could very possibly agree with.
But when I say, it's odd behavior or not normal. I get into a 50 page debate with several homosexuals on why homosexuality is normal.

Homosexuality is within the range of normal human behaviour.

Yes, its a minority of people who are homosexual, but that doesn't make it "odd", any more than beiung left handed is "odd".

You said you want to deny them basic rights because of the issue they constantly dodge. For my benefit, could you please explicitly tell me what this issue is, because I don't see any issue being dodged here. I realise you may think you have already explained it, but I must have missed it. So please, for me, explain in basic terms what it is you think homosexuals are dodging, and I will do my best to answer your questions as they relate.

Well, if they're happy being who they are, why even care?

You can be happy with who you are and still suffer injustice. I assume the suffragettes were happy with who they were, they still wanted the vote.

You don't think that someone trying to change who you are should be noticed?

Of course it should be noticed. But that wasn't the question, the question was why is their wanting to change anyone grounds for denying them basic rights?

(and I'm yet to see any evidence at all, any where, that even a minority of homosexuals want to "change" anyone to homosexuality)

 

[Inviolable]

What is questionable about wanting equality?Why do you insist on answering questions with questions?Homosexuality is within the range of normal human behaviour.

I don't see where I've made it a point to show where it's odd to want equality.
I've made it a point<staff edit>

Yes, its a minority of people who are homosexual, but that doesn't make it "odd", any more than beiung left handed is "odd".

You said you want to deny them basic rights because of the issue they constantly dodge. For my benefit, could you please explicitly tell me what this issue is, because I don't see any issue being dodged here. I realise you may think you have already explained it, but I must have missed it. So please, for me, explain in basic terms what it is you think homosexuals are dodging, and I will do my best to answer your questions as they relate.You can be happy with who you are and still suffer injustice. I assume the suffragettes were happy with who they were, they still wanted the vote.Of course it should be noticed. But that wasn't the question, the question was why is their wanting to change anyone grounds for denying them basic rights?

Same old argument that will go in a single direction.
This is the first response.

My point was this.
If you want to admit it or not, the "ACTS" just the act of homosexuality, appears to be an irrational thing.
Despite anything the APA says.
There can be no logic behind it, at all. The only way we can view it is through emotional rationality. <staff edit>

<staff edit>

How do we know what normal is?
We justify it by examining our own emotions and morals based on what we see as rational.

(and I'm yet to see any evidence at all, any where, that even a minority of homosexuals want to "change" anyone to homosexuality)

I see it through rationality.

 

[b&wpac4]

I don't see where I've made it a point to show where it's odd to want equality.
I've made it a point<staff edit>.


Same old argument that will go in a single direction.
This is the first response.

My point was this.
If you want to admit it or not, the "ACTS" just the act of homosexuality, appears to be an irrational thing.
Despite anything the APA says.
There can be no logic behind it, at all. The only way we can view it is through emotional rationality. <staff edit>

<staff edit>

How do we know what normal is?
We justify it by examining our own emotions and morals based on what we see as rational.

I see it through rationality.

This all may be true, but humans do a lot of irrational things that are protected. I can go to McDonald's every day, for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. HIGHLY irrational, since my body is not going to function very well for very long on this diet, but nobody would try to prevent me from doing so legally.

That we deem an action irrational should not be the baseline for determining what people should have the right to do in a free society.

 

[LightHorseman]

I don't see where I've made it a point to show where it's odd to want equality.
I've made it a point to show where homosexuals are going about getting their equality in an odd way over an odd behavior.

How do you think they should go about seeking equality then?

If you want to admit it or not, the "ACTS" just the act of homosexuality, appears to be an irrational thing.

To you, quite possibly. But do not make the mistake of projecting your subjective opinion onto the population in general.

Everyone with a behavior that is irrational will want to be justified as normal. Which is where things like people with a position that incest is O.K.

Slippery slope? Really? *sigh* OK, as I'm sure I've told you before, and if not me, many others have... the difference with homosexuality, yes, it is a minority behaviour, but unlike beastiality, incest, paedophilia, and the usual charges thrown out at this point of the conversation, homosexuality occurs with the adult consent of all involved, whereas the other examples do not. So you can slippery slope all you like, but I will go out and say that NO activity, minority or not, "odd" or not, that goes on with the consent of all major parties and doesn't harm anyone else, should be permitted. I defy you to find one that should not be.

How do we know what normal is?
We justify it by examining our own emotions and morals based on what we see as rational.

Um, no... that way you get a completely subjective view of "normal". Normality is determined purely by prevalence and patternation.

I see it through rationality.

Then please, explain your "rational" view that clearly shows homosexuals as wanting to change or convert otherwise heterosexual people into homosexuals?