Found this article, what do you think?

[Andreusz]

It's not being done so by anyone other then homosexuals. If they need rights, why do they need them?

Christian practices are only carried out by Chrisitians. Why do they need rights?

Because if they were like me they wouldn't need rights to begin with.

Fortunately, we are not like you.

I can't say why homosexuals would be a threat, all I know is they're not being to fourth coming on what makes them different enough to need separate rights from myself.

We fall in love with members of our sex, and not with members of the opposite sex. Clear enough?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Boy, that's a new one...nark...nark....

*

Neologism wise that is.

 

[Andreusz]

Gay guys want to marry women?

No. You can marry the person you love. We want to marry the people we love.

False naivety is a form of false witness. If your religion is true, you are putting yourself in danger of hell fire.

 

[Inviolable]

Boy, that's a new one...nark...nark....

*

Thank you, thank you!

I'm taking a bow now but you can't see.

 

[Inviolable]

Christian practices are only carried out by Chrisitians. Why do they need rights?

Christianity is a common occurrence and can happen to anyone.

Fortunately, we are not like you.

I'm pretty sure there are homosexuals worse then me. But I don't pretend to speak for anyone else but myself.

We fall in love with members of our sex, and not with members of the opposite sex. Clear enough?

No, it's an odd behavior.
Can you go into more detail on why it isn't odd and if you agree that it is can you establish why it's something that wont threaten my rights?

 

[Inviolable]

No. You can marry the person you love. We want to marry the people we love.

It was a play on words to establish the fact that homosexuals don't wish to celebrate the difference that sets them apart from everyone else.

False naivety is a form of false witness. If your religion is true, you are putting yourself in danger of hell fire.

It also looks very suspicious.

 

[OllieFranz]

It's not being done so by anyone other then homosexuals. If they need rights, why do they need them? You failed to answer the question.

Why do they need rights? How about because they are human, and deserve to be treated like any other human. As Thomas jefferson once wrote "all men are created equal, and are endowed by their creator with unalienable rights."

But you have plenty to ask.
Does being uneducated or misinformed make it easy to ask stupid questions?

It would be so easy to say something here about how you certainly make it look that way, but it would not be productive.

Yes but we don't get to choose what that is.

Exactly! Most of us don't. We are "stuck" with the orientation we were born with, whether it is gay, straight, bi, asexual or other. Just exactly like we're "stuck" with the skin color we were born with. That is the point that those who claim that homosexuality never seem to get.

Because if they were like me they wouldn't need rights to begin with.

Newsflash! You do need rights. You have rights. The only reason you don't have to fight for your rights is because the powers-that-be in society recognizes you as "just like me," and so do not deny your rights and thwart your attempts to ensure them. Fifty to a hundred years ago, if you were black, or Irish, or Jewish, or Catholic, or female those powers-that-be would have been denying you your rights as well.

The only time I know of is when that minority is in threat of harming some one else' rights.

The theory of limits on rights due to either conflict with someone else' more basic right ("Your right to swing your fist [free expression] ends at my nose" [self-preservation]), or immediate danger (There is no "right" to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater) is a valid one, but again it needs to be applied equally to all. If a minority cannot be allowed to harm someone else' rights, then neither can the majority be allowed to

I can't say why homosexuals would be a threat, all I know is they're not being to fourth coming on what makes them different enough to need separate rights from myself.

Might that be because they are not different in this respect? Nor do they claim to be. They are not asking for separate rights -- in fact many reject the idea of separate rights, such as civil unions -- They are asking to be recognized as having the same basic human rights as anyone else.

Now, if homosexuals made it clear why they needed rights instead of pushing the "I'm like you" easy button, that could very possibly be cleared up.
Why should they be given them?

[Sarcasm]Why should we not force Jews to live in the ghettos? Why should Blacks not have to live in slave quarters? Why should we not be free to ban Irish Catholics, or Polish Catholics, or Eye-talian Catholics from working in our restaurants and factories? Why can't we, when a woman applies, tell her that she belongs at home, taking care of her family, and we are not going to give her a job that some male applicant might need? After all, all of these are "other" -- they are "not like us," not really human. So they don't need human rights.[/Sarcasm]

 

[Garyzenuf]

Thank you, thank you!

I'm taking a bow now but you can't see.

And a well deserved one too my friend.

Christianity is a common occurrence and can happen to anyone.

Just like being Gay.

Can you go into more detail on why it isn't odd and if you agree that it is can you establish why it's something that wont threaten my rights?

I guess he could then ask you to provide the same details for your religious beliefs.

*

 

[Inviolable]

Why do they need rights? How about because they are human, and deserve to be treated like any other human. As Thomas jefferson once wrote "all men are created equal, and are endowed by their creator with unalienable rights."

Yes but the country they're sharing, is being shared with other humans.
Who have rights. Can you establish that those rights will not be put in jeopardy?

It would be so easy to say something here about how you certainly make it look that way, but it would not be productive.

I was thinking something similar when I first seen this post.

Exactly! Most of us don't. We are "stuck" with the orientation we were born with, whether it is gay, straight, bi, asexual or other. Just exactly like we're "stuck" with the skin color we were born with. That is the point that those who claim that homosexuality never seem to get.

I understand that. I don't have a problem with the "person".
It doesn't matter to me that someone is born with it. What matters to me is how they go about explaining why they need rights.
Now that we've established what sets everyone apart from each other, I'd like to see that they can understand the guidelines to exactly why we're all separated.

Newsflash! You do need rights. You have rights. The only reason you don't have to fight for your rights is because the powers-that-be in society recognizes you as "just like me," and so do not deny your rights and thwart your attempts to ensure them. Fifty to a hundred years ago, if you were black, or Irish, or Jewish, or Catholic, or female those powers-that-be would have been denying you your rights as well.

Yes but those people were already black, Irish, Jewish...
It was clear to see that it's only a matter of ethical background that sets them apart. Which in and of itself was easy to understand.
As it is just as clear to see, homosexuals aren't ethnical and the matter becomes more complicated.
I'd like to see homosexuals try to clear up those complications instead of playing the blame game and calling it prejudice.

Has anyone for homosexual rights every simply wondered if it isn't about prejudice?

The theory of limits on rights due to either conflict with someone else' more basic right ("Your right to swing your fist [free expression] ends at my nose" [self-preservation]), or immediate danger (There is no "right" to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater) is a valid one, but again it needs to be applied equally to all. If a minority cannot be allowed to harm someone else' rights, then neither can the majority be allowed to

I agree with that.
But I also think it should be made clear that no one else' rights will be harmed in the process of giving out rights to a minority first.

Might that be because they are not different in this respect? Nor do they claim to be. They are not asking for separate rights -- in fact many reject the idea of separate rights, such as civil unions -- They are asking to be recognized as having the same basic human rights as anyone else.

The same basic rights as everyone else are already established. They want to change that.

[Sarcasm]Why should we not force Jews to live in the ghettos? Why should Blacks not have to live in slave quarters? Why should we not be free to ban Irish Catholics, or Polish Catholics, or Eye-talian Catholics from working in our restaurants and factories? Why can't we, when a woman applies, tell her that she belongs at home, taking care of her family, and we are not going to give her a job that some male applicant might need? After all, all of these are "other" -- they are "not like us," not really human. So they don't need human rights.[/Sarcasm]

It surely wouldn't be for the same reason we'd put homosexuals in slave camps.

 

[Inviolable]

And a well deserved one too my friend.

Well, thank you

Just like being Gay.

No, homosexuality can't happen to anyone.
Christianity can.

I guess he could then ask you to provide the same details for your religious beliefs.
*

Sure, but I'm willing to bet there's less confusion on that then there is homosexuality.

 

[Andreusz]

Christianity is a common occurrence and can happen to anyone.

Even people brought up in the most homophobic families can find themselves attracted to their own sex.

No, it's an odd behavior.

My eight-year old niece understands that homosexuals are people who fall in love with members of their own gender. I'm sorry you can't get your mind around this.

Can you go into more detail on why it isn't odd and if you agree that it is can you establish why it's something that wont threaten my rights?

How could it possibly threaten your rights?

 

[AdamClarke]

LOL. People tend to be rather touchy on this subject in this forum. It is the only place on the board where homosexuality can be discussed so there are some pretty entrenched positions on both sides.

I'm curious about your statement that you find the "African American community is not supportive of the connection that the homosexual rights community claims with them." It has been my perception, and I will admit I have not done a lot of research on this, that the African American community that are fundamentalists are rather more vociferously against same sex marriage then the African American community at large. What do you think?

Well I think that is a distinct possibility. What I would like to know is if the majority of African Americans are Fundamentalists or at least Evangelical. I suspect that they are but I haven't found an academic statistical study. I thought Barna would have had something but I couldn't find it.


If my suspicion is true it might explain why the majority of African Americans oppose same sex marriage. (or so it seems)


I'm glad at least one person has come to understand that I don't have an agenda here except to understand.

 

[Inviolable]

Even people brought up in the most homophobic families can find themselves attracted to their own sex.

Doesn't mean they had a choice, I'm going to have to repeat that a lot in several different forms aren't I?

My eight-year old niece understands that homosexuals are people who fall in love with members of their own gender. I'm sorry you can't get your mind around this.

No I get it, I just didn't have a gay uncle to persuade me that it wasn't odd.

How could it possibly threaten your rights?

I don't know, that's the entire point.
Why don't you tell me why it wouldn't?

 

[SughaNSpice]

Christianity is a common occurrence and can happen to anyone.

I'm pretty sure there are homosexuals worse then me. But I don't pretend to speak for anyone else but myself.

No, it's an odd behavior.
Can you go into more detail on why it isn't odd and if you agree that it is can you establish why it's something that wont threaten my rights?

What rights of yours are threatened by equality?

 

[AdamClarke]

You said you were interested in what Christian African Americans thought, I pointed out what some Christian African Americans I know and know of think about same sex marriage. Of course we're not inclined (in my family) to think kindly toward cogic opinions primarily because of our less than pleasant experiences with cogic members having nothing to do with their views on ss marriage. They can believe what they want but their notions about civil rights are off course in my opinion.

You make a good point I shouldn't dismiss comments and opinions such as those quoted. But as far as I know these folks only speak for themselves. They are singular opinions but you are correct their opinions are just as valid as any other. I guess I should have pointed out that from the studies I have found the majority of African Americans are opposed to the comparison between homosexual discrimination and racial discrimination.

 

[Inviolable]

What rights of yours are threatened by equality?

Why is it you seem to be very selective of the post of mine you respond to?

Well, I can say, I'm not afraid to answer any questions you ask me.
So here goes.
I want to know homosexuals understand that there are people who are heterosexual who can't help but be heterosexual.
Just like they can't help but be homosexual.

Can you explain that?

 

[SughaNSpice]

Why is it you seem to be very selective of the post of mine you respond to?

Well, I can say, I'm not afraid to answer any questions you ask me.
So here goes.
I want to know homosexuals understand that there are people who are heterosexual who can't help but be heterosexual.
Just like they can't help but be homosexual.

Can you explain that?

That’s nice you aren’t afraid to answer my questions – but you didn’t answer my question : What rights of yours are threatened by equality?

 

[AdamClarke]

its pretty sad you can't justify legal protections for religious minorities.

Well we all have our opinions. I am not gifted in rhetoric and debate thus constructing arguments is not one of my strengths. At least I know my limitations.

Then it isn't a behavior and as an inherent characteristic it is no different than skin color

Well I think their argument is that the orientation may be inherent but the behavior isn't. At least that is how I understand it.

and all really academic as civil rights are guaranteed for “behavior” based minorities and the constitution guarantees equal rights and equal legal protections for ALL people.

But the government also recognizes that there are legitimate reasons to limit those civil rights. (the old yelling fire in a crowded theater argument) The argument obviously is what are those legitimate reasons and is homosexuality one of them? I'm not arguing that it is or isn't I'm simply trying to examine the subject from as many different perspectives as I can.

Strange how leaders of civil rights share and openly express that kinship

And yet it seems that the majority of those they claim to represent disagree. Can you explain that?

 

[AdamClarke]

maybe it has to do with the fact that anti-gay bigotry is not just accepted but endorsed by the government and by religion

Perhaps

 

[LightHorseman]

Doesn't mean they had a choice, I'm going to have to repeat that a lot in several different forms aren't I?

No I get it, I just didn't have a gay uncle to persuade me that it wasn't odd.
I don't know, that's the entire point.
Why don't you tell me why it wouldn't?

The onus is on you, since you're the one making the positive claim "homosexual marriage threatens my rights". Thats what you said, and thats clearly what you believe, therefore it is up to you to explain how you came to that conclusion.