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Fossils on mountains and the hydroplate theory

PeterDona

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there are angels of satan that age the matter and materialize(create) prehistoric earth layers and fossils/corpses of prehistoric animals in the ground that (actually) never existed, as well as false scriptures as those that were found in nag hammadi egypt, so it is no great thing if they materialize(d) fossils/corpses of animals on many mountains

Blessings
Satan and his angels do not have the ability to create. Here is a resource for some study
https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/goda32a.htm
http://jesusalive.cc/ques228.htm
What is in the ground (fossils etc) is there, because it has a history.
God bless you also brother.
 
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toLiJC

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Satan and his angels do not have the ability to create. Here is a resource for some study
https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/goda32a.htm
http://jesusalive.cc/ques228.htm
What is in the ground (fossils etc) is there, because it has a history.
God bless you also brother.

this is too naive, if satan and its angels could not create delusion, then they would have been completely unobjectionable, the process of satanic materialization is not like the process of God's creation, because God has created the physical matter together with its (elementary) particles, while satan and its angels materialized things of the already created physical matter by using the moment when God is in a state of sleepiness

Matthew 24:24 "there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.",

2 Thessalonians 2:6-11 "ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity(i.e. the spiritual iniquity/lawlessness) doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish(i.e. mostly in those that commit spiritual iniquity/lawlessness); because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God(i.e. as it were the tilting mechanism of the true God's sleepiness and the darkness' unleashing) shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"

Blessings
 
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The Cadet

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there are angels of satan that age the matter and materialize(create) prehistoric earth layers and fossils/corpses of prehistoric animals in the ground that (actually) never existed, as well as false scriptures as those that were found in nag hammadi egypt, so it is no great thing if they materialize(d) fossils/corpses of animals on many mountains

Blessings

So, in other words, any given thing in your life could have been created by those angels to deceive you?

...How do you know?
 
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PeterDona

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Matthew 24:24 "[...]if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.",

1 Thessalonians 2:6-11 "[...] And for this cause God(i.e. as it were the tilting mechanism of the true God's sleepiness and the darkness' unleashing) shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"

Blessings
ToLiJC, you are spot on with your quotation of verses. It is important to be not decieved. But it is beyond the power of Satan to create anything. He is himself a created being. He can manipulate the created things however. Especially if some human person give himself over to him. Actually, he can not manipulate anything unless he has a living person to operate through. Without that he can still whisper into our mind. And I believe, that is about it. That is how much he can do.

The evolution theory _might_ count as a strong delusion, but I believe that the mind construction that is in the mind of most unbelievers (if they are educated) is something like this
1) I am alone in this world, I will disappear when I die, and so I should get the most out of it while I can
2) there is not a God, science proves it
I do not believe that the evolution theory per se is the strong delusion, but it can serve its purposes in decieving people, therefore we should make ourselves educated about it, and how to counter it. And what better forum is there for such a purpose than this forum, where we can in a friendly setting discuss the matters.

Let us try to keep the thread scientific, so that the moderator will not shut it down.
 
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RickG

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Yah,
First I studied for 2½ years at the technical university of Denmark. which is number 149 in the world on some list. Then I made the rest of my education at Roskilde University, which is not even on that list (which made the boss of the Roskilde University reply that those lists are amateur work :) ).
My professor at my thesis was this one: http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tove_Atlung
In my thesis I had to develop a new experimental setup - to use a column coated with DnaA protein to "fish" for proteins interacting with it. It had been done with interaction with DNA. You could actually fish the DNA sequences that bound to the protein. But as far as my project went, it did not "succeed" with the protein-protein interactions. I can tell you, I really searched and searched the literature to find a trick that would make the setup work. That would have been a feat, and certainly worth an article in a scientific journal.
Impressive Peter, thank you for the insight. I have a B.S.E from Jacksonville St. Univ. (1972), M.Ed. Univ. of Memphis (1975), M.S. Univ. Memphis (1977). The latter is in Earth Science, which consists of Oceanography, Geology, and Climatology. My area of concentration was Paleoclimatology, with my thesis on the occurrence and causes of continental glaciation, in which Plate Tectonics plays a major roll with respect to continental position and configuration. I'm retired now but spent most of my professional career as a research chemist and process engineer in private industry. I also have some 7 yrs. teaching experience as well.

Now the question I have to ask is with your background, what would you think if I, a person who has practically no background in the biological sciences and absolutely none in genetics; started making claims about DNA that are completely outside the well founded basic knowledge and understanding of that science? Keep in mind you are very well qualified in that area and can see that my accusations and dismissal of the science are not only erroneous but just outright silly, demonstrating that I don't even have a basic understanding of even the related sciences that contribute to the knowledge of DNA?

You would pretty much fell the same way I do when I see the hydroplate theory introduced as a reason we have fossils on Mount Everest and stating that plate tectonics cannot explain that. Can you explain how continental masses composed mostly of granite float on water? How do you explain the magnetic striping outward from the oceanic ridges with with sequentially older ages occur? Can you explain how the energy required to move the continental plates and build complete mountain ranges globally in less than a year doesn't evaporate all the water on earth and turn the entire earth into a molten mass? All I am saying is one has to not only ignore a lot of well known physics and thermodynamics, but they have to misapply it as well. Just some thoughts to ponder. God bless.
 
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toLiJC

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So, in other words, any given thing in your life could have been created by those angels to deceive you?

...How do you know?

not every thing is materialized by them, but things that can serve as a delusion e.g. to how the cosmic structure and the life have ostensibly come into being millions and billions of years ago, but actually the universal creation and the life have been made about 5-6 millennia ago by the true Lord God, because satan tries to lie that there is no true God, but something evolutionary, or to make the true God out unrighteous for having ostensibly made the souls suffer for millions of years instead of resting them, which is actually not so, and it is well-known how the evolutionary theories are based on and supported by found scientific evidence(archaeological, palaeontological, cosmological and pseudo-scriptural discoveries), which is welcome for satan and its angels, because they could materialize many such

as for the "flood", satan would prefer to lie the humans that it was made by H₂O referring them misleadingly to the physical crime(s), for God destroyed the ancient world because of the great spiritual iniquity/lawlessness that many had then done, and He did it by purgatorial spirit(ual process) known in the Bible as "water"

Blessings
 
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PeterDona

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RickG,

I do not know much about hydroplate theory. It looked like a sensible counterargumentation, and there was even a booklet linked in one of my OP links. Many pieces to put together. I do not have any idea what would cause the massive movement that are believed to cause the rise of mountain ridges. And in that area, anything will be a model. It does look like many (most?) mountains have been formed in regions of intersection between continents.

However, a massive sudden motion, such as in a catastrophic event, does intuitively seem more likely for me, than the slow gradual movement. That one could deserve its own thread even (or maybe just start here). Just for my information, what force is believed to cause the continents to drift?

Regarding the magnetic striping outward from the oceanic ridges, I believe that is a full topic that could also deserve its own thread.
 
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RickG

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RickG,

I do not know much about hydroplate theory. It looked like a sensible counterargumentation, and there was even a booklet linked in one of my OP links. Many pieces to put together. I do not have any idea what would cause the massive movement that are believed to cause the rise of mountain ridges. And in that area, anything will be a model. It does look like many (most?) mountains have been formed in regions of intersection between continents.
Well again, I have to ask why you would embrace the peer review literature in your own field and completely ignore it in a field you know nothing about? And being familiar with scientific methods, you should know that models are not based vague ideas, rather actual observed data. But aside from that, plate movements and their directions are now measured by GIS. The fact that we can physically back-track those movements with respect to latitude and their time frames is how we know about the supercontinents Gondwana, Laurasia, Pangaea, Pannotia, Rodinia, Columbia, Kenorland, Ur, and Vaalbara.

However, a massive sudden motion, such as in a catastrophic event, does intuitively seem more likely for me, than the slow gradual movement.
Again, thermodynamics 101, think about the energy to move such masses, and what mechanism moves them?

That one could deserve its own thread even (or maybe just start here). Just for my information, what force is believed to cause the continents to drift?
Few people recognize my avatar which is that of Alfred Wegner, the person who proposed the original theory of "Continental Drift". Wegners theory was not accepted by the scientific community because he could not it could not explain the mechanism that could have moved the the continents. However, after WWII oceanographers and marine geologists begin mapping and taking core samples of the oceans. In doing this, they discovered the magnetic reversal striping of the sea floor increasing in age as it moved away from the oceanic ridges that were extruding new magma. They also discovered subduction zones where the oceanic plates were subducting into the mantle. Thus it could be seen that upwelling from the mantle explained the oceanic ridges and mechanism for plate movement. With this new information, orogeny processes became much more clear explaining how oceanic plates could be pushed up as mountain ranges.

Regarding the magnetic striping outward from the oceanic ridges, I believe that is a full topic that could also deserve its own thread.
Indeed.
 
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toLiJC

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ToLiJC, you are spot on with your quotation of verses. It is important to be not decieved. But it is beyond the power of Satan to create anything. He is himself a created being. He can manipulate the created things however. Especially if some human person give himself over to him. Actually, he can not manipulate anything unless he has a living person to operate through. Without that he can still whisper into our mind. And I believe, that is about it. That is how much he can do.

The evolution theory _might_ count as a strong delusion, but I believe that the mind construction that is in the mind of most unbelievers (if they are educated) is something like this
1) I am alone in this world, I will disappear when I die, and so I should get the most out of it while I can
2) there is not a God, science proves it
I do not believe that the evolution theory per se is the strong delusion, but it can serve its purposes in decieving people, therefore we should make ourselves educated about it, and how to counter it. And what better forum is there for such a purpose than this forum, where we can in a friendly setting discuss the matters.

Let us try to keep the thread scientific, so that the moderator will not shut it down.

satan is not created by the true God, neither is it a besouled being, but it is an inanimate manifestation(spirit) of the "darkness", otherwise God would be unrighteous for creating something sinful, because how would you react if you or some one of your dear persons (God forbid) turn out to be a victim of a fire that someone else started?!, would you consider that person(the firestarter) to be absolutely guiltless?!, then why would the true God make Himself guilty especially in the eyes of human beings?!, bear in mind that satan is the main manifestation of the "darkness", which (in turn) is the negative side of the uncaused spiritual(divine), this means that neither is satan created by the true God, nor its "mother" the "darkness", but it is really so that satan could not made/show all lying signs and wonders without its servants

do not underestimate the potential of the "darkness", because it is a being of the category of the true God in power as it is shown in Genesis 3:1 "it was wiser than any of the creatures that the Lord God had made"

Jude 1:9 "Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation(i.e. did not dare to underestimate its power), but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

the evolutionary theories are a part of the strong delusion, but it works mostly in the minds of the spiritual violaters

isn't this testimony more or less scientific especially after it reveals many things that are not so openly shown in the biblical scriptures?!

Blessings
 
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RickG

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satan is not created by the true God, neither is it a besouled being, but it is an inanimate manifestation(spirit) of the "darkness", otherwise God would be unrighteous for creating something sinful, because how would you react if you or some one of your dear persons (God forbid) turn out to be a victim of a fire that someone else started?!, would you consider that person(the firestarter) to be absolutely guiltless?!, then why would the true God make Himself guilty especially in the eyes of human beings?!, bear in mind that satan is the main manifestation of the "darkness", which (in turn) is the negative side of the uncaused spiritual(divine), this means that neither is satan created by the true God, nor its "mother" the "darkness", but it is really so that satan could not made/show all lying signs and wonders without its servants

do not underestimate the potential of the "darkness", because it is a being of the category of the true God in power as it is shown in Genesis 3:1 "it was wiser than any of the creatures that the Lord God had made"

Jude 1:9 "Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation(i.e. did not dare to underestimate its power), but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

the evolutionary theories are a part of the strong delusion, but it works mostly in the minds of the spiritual violaters

isn't this testimony more or less scientific especially after it reveals many things that are not so openly shown in the biblical scriptures?!

Blessings
A good way to get the thread closed is with apologetics, rather than discussing science. Just saying.
 
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The Cadet

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not every thing is materialized by them, but things that can serve as a delusion e.g. to how the cosmic structure and the life have ostensibly come into being millions and billions of years ago, but actually the universal creation and the life have been made about 5-6 millennia ago by the true Lord God, because satan tries to lie that there is no true God, but something evolutionary, or to make the true God out unrighteous for having ostensibly made the souls suffer for millions of years instead of resting them, which is actually not so, and it is well-known how the evolutionary theories are based on and supported by found scientific evidence(archaeological, palaeontological, cosmological and pseudo-scriptural discoveries), which is welcome for satan and its angels, because they could materialize many such

as for the "flood", satan would prefer to lie the humans that it was made by H₂O referring them misleadingly to the physical crime(s), for God destroyed the ancient world because of the great spiritual iniquity/lawlessness that many had then done, and He did it by purgatorial spirit(ual process) known in the Bible as "water"

Blessings

What an interesting worldview. Some days, I wish I had the mental wherewithal to pretend that everything that disagreed with what I thought I knew was a trick by Satan. That sounds like a very comforting way to look at the world.

RickG,

I do not know much about hydroplate theory. It looked like a sensible counterargumentation

A word of advice. When examining science you don't understand very well, you really, really should go first to the established experts. Look to see if there's some sort of scientific consensus, if there's some viewpoint which essentially dominates the discourse. Don't look to blogs or popular books by people who are obviously running against the consensus and who have deemed peer review to somehow be "below them". That's a really good way to get exactly the wrong information.
 
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toLiJC

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What an interesting worldview. Some days, I wish I had the mental wherewithal to pretend that everything that disagreed with what I thought I knew was a trick by Satan. That sounds like a very comforting way to look at the world.

where do you think the negative thoughts come from?!, is it possible that something come from nothing?!, or how was it possible that the mind created by the true God to be used for good purposes began to think bad things?!, where the thoughts come from?! - satan is the best possible hacker and cracker of the human mind

Blessings
 
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AV1611VET

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Its just that I've seen a lot of involvement by the mods lately pointing that out. And I must say, I'm glad to see that involvement.
I agree.
 
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RickG

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What an interesting worldview. Some days, I wish I had the mental wherewithal to pretend that everything that disagreed with what I thought I knew was a trick by Satan. That sounds like a very comforting way to look at the world.



A word of advice. When examining science you don't understand very well, you really, really should go first to the established experts. Look to see if there's some sort of scientific consensus, if there's some viewpoint which essentially dominates the discourse. Don't look to blogs or popular books by people who are obviously running against the consensus and who have deemed peer review to somehow be "below them". That's a really good way to get exactly the wrong information.
Another thing I would to do while evaluating the scientific literature is to see what the objections to the consensus exist. Usually in my experience, those differences involve new and updated data or just something to do with details that don't really change the consensus at all.
 
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AV1611VET

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Its just that I've seen a lot of involvement by the mods lately pointing that out. And I must say, I'm glad to see that involvement.
You remind me of another poster here: Thaumaturgy.

He was a scientist that used to post here and fish for scientific debate.

He eventually wandered into the area of global warming and Glen Morton showed up and those two went head-to-head big time.

Thaumaturgy left shortly after that, and I suspect it is because he finally got what he wanted: an intellectual, scientific challenge.

I'm afraid the same thing is going to happen to you, and I'd hate to see you leave.

Hopefully I'm wrong.
 
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essentialsaltes

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I did not expect this statement to be made, because to my mind, it just seemed too improbable. When the land lifted, due to slow gradual processes, and we are around equator, those fossils would have to survive many thousand years where they were not in a freezing environment.

Dude. Fossils are rocks. Rocks can survive ambient temperatures quite well.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Fossil is rather a broad term. In some cases, the bones or even the soft parts of the body are slowly permineralized, where empty spaces in the organism are filled with hard minerals, so that the actual body is replaced by (or maybe reinforced by) rock. In other cases, yes, fossils are more like impressions or casts. (Though in both cases, the rock is made of rock, and the fossil, the thing in the glass case, is made of rock.).
 
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