Fossilization and the Dinosaurs

[JohnEmmett]

Specifically it is about people *deliberately* using the wrong tool to get a misleading answer. What would you call such a person?

Everything is not a nail

 

[That Guy 11200]

Fossils don't need to be buried deep but they do need to be buried to protect and preserve them. This means they need to be covered by sediments fairly quickly before predators, corrosion, or the forces of nature get to them. Sediments can be water borne or wind driven. The main issue is quick coverage. It doesn't necessarily need to be deep - it depends on the circumstances. Typical fossilisation is where the animal dies in still water with a high sediment content and is quickly buried by sediments.

Fossilisation requires a very specific set of circumstances where the animal dies in the right place and is left undisturbed as it mineralises for millions of years after its death. This means fossilisation is a rare event but, given billions of animal deaths over time, even rare events can happen regularly.

OB

Just a small point. Body fossils are any remains of organisms that are over 10,000 years old. Remineralisation doesn't need to occur. If it passes the 10,000 year mark, it's a fossil.

Pollen is an excellent example of unremineralised fossils. Sporopollenin, the complex organic polymer that the protective shell of pollen is made of, can survive hundreds of millions of years intact (not to mention some really nasty acids that dissolve everything else around it in sediment samples).

 

[JohnEmmett]

If it passes the 10,000 year mark, it's a fossil.

some dinosaur remains are only 40,000 years or less

 

[Occams Barber]

Just a small point. Body fossils are any remains of organisms that are over 10,000 years old. Remineralisation doesn't need to occur. If it passes the 10,000 year mark, it's a fossil.

Pollen is an excellent example of unremineralised fossils. Sporopollenin, the complex organic polymer that the protective shell of pollen is made of, can survive hundreds of millions of years intact (not to mention some really nasty acids that dissolve everything else around it in sediment samples).

Thanks TG

I was aware of the 10,000-year fossil definition but initially left it out to keep things short and simple. It actually came up later in the thread. I was unsure if the level of mineralisation conflicted with the 10,000-year rule but you appeared to have provided the answer - it's a fossil after 10,000 years no matter what the level of permineralization.

I wasn't aware of the pollen 'eternal' shell. Do you know of any hard-shelled critters with a similar unremineralised shell?

OB

 

[RileyG]

There some other factors that come into play with fossilization like the depositional environment and how sturdy the bones are. Forests and jungles tend to have acidic soils so the majority of bones dissolve rather than get a chance to fossilize. Bats have small hollow bones which can be crushed and many species live in jungles or forests.

That's very interesting!

 

[RileyG]

some dinosaur remains are only 40,000 years or less

How so? They've been dead for 65 million years or so...

 

[Occams Barber]

some dinosaur remains are only 40,000 years or less

According to my Chatbot, which is never wrong, the last known dinosaur standing was a triceratops 65 million years ago.

However, there is another way of looking at this. Birds are the descendants of dinosaurs. However, there is scientific consensus that birds should be classified as maniraptoran theropod dinosaurs.

This means that dinosaurs are still alive and well and living in a tree near you.

OB

 

[AV1611VET]

This means that dinosaurs are still alive and well and living in a tree near you.

Behold the terrible lizard!

 

[Occams Barber]

We prefer 'Tiny Tyrannosaurus'

OB

 

[AV1611VET]

We prefer 'Tiny Tyrannosaurus'

OB

Tiny Tim, the Terrible Tyrannosaurus?

 

[Astrid]

Shall we say it again?

It's about using the right tool to do a job. Specifically it is about people *deliberately* using the wrong tool to get a misleading answer. What would you call such a person?

Dishonest? Fraud?
A disgrace?

 

[AV1611VET]

Dishonest? Fraud?
A disgrace?

A sinner?

 

[Larniavc]

some dinosaur remains are only 40,000 years or less

Some are even younger than that! May cat caught a pigeon the other week. What’s left of that avian dinosaur is still in the woods behind our house.

 

[JohnEmmett]

How so? They've been dead for 65 million years or so…

they survived

 

[Hans Blaster]

A sinner?

You can add that descriptive if you want, but it is no substitute for more complete descriptors.

 

[AV1611VET]

You can add that descriptive if you want, but it is no substitute for more complete descriptors.

"Sinner" is the general term.

 

[JohnEmmett]

"Sinner" is the general term.

not sufficient …

 

[Hans Blaster]

"Sinner" is the general term.

Only in "christian morality", not the rest of the universe.

 

[AV1611VET]

Only in "christian morality", not the rest of the universe.

Even trying to divorce yourself from your sin nature is a sin.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Even trying to divorce yourself from your sin nature is a sin.

Those good enough to be reborn in heaven … are in heaven