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Fossil Record Shows Evolution as an Errant Fabricated Mess

Brightmoon

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stop lying. It doesn’t reflect well on Christians that fundies lie about easily confirmed facts . The so called gaps in the fossil record are being filled in mainly because unlike Darwin or Cope, and other 19th century naturalists , we know where to look for the intermediates and approximately what age they’d be. Geological layering and dating of the layers is that well understood . And that’s just fossils. We also have genetics and evolutionary development as well as others of the biological sciences. The only fantasies involved are coming from creationists in denial
 
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Turkana

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Boy, WHEN are you going to stop lying and deceiving?
I know that in the Babble School you are learned to close your eyes for reality and when YEC of nature, to learn how to lie but wasn't there anybody in your life who taught you to be honest and how to live in reality?

Actually, personally I LIKE creationists to lie through their teeth as you do. Because everyone with a normal, non-rotten state of mind passing by and reading your threads and who still might sit on the fence or who are just neutrally interested, will be exposed to your deceit and as you know: reputation leaves on a galloping horse's back and only returns by foot reluctantly. So I just let creationists like you expose their deceit themselves by own admission. So let's stir up the fire a bit more:

So, first of all, you do know that paleontologist do not consider Pakicetus an "ancestor" of the cetaceans? AT LEAST you do know that, right? Because someone who feels himself entitled to judge about the fossil record at least should have some basic understanding of paleontology, DON'T YOU THINK?

And you think that Cetaceans (whale evolution fossil record) are filled with conjecture in how they are linked.

Really?

You DO KNOW that paleontology is not about reconstructing the factual pedigree of species? AT LEAST you do know that, right? Because someone who feels himself entitled to judge about the fossil record at least should have some basic understanding of paleontology, DON'T YOU THINK?

Also you are producing a lie here.

Paleontologists base their conclusions on painstaking, extremely detailed observations of the fossils. They use hundreds of anatomical attributes where fossil remains of any origin may differ.

[Intermezzo for other readers (I have not the slightest illusion that Heissonear reads links provided by his opponents, how that works in their minds has been explained extremely well by former young earth creationist Glenn Morton): here you have an example of a paleontological study among the tens of thousands other ones showing how paleontology is actually performed and achieved. I choose an old study by Philip Gingerich on cetacean evolution, featuring Pakicetus, the proto-cetacean Heisonear also mentioned.

In this study Gingerich provides extremely detailed observational evidence of the inner ear of Pakicetus, which demonstrates Pakicetus, cladistically spoken, was a cetacean. Because you can tell cetaceans apart from all other animals due to the anatomical feats that are unique for them- you know. the traits that make them "cetacean". Pakicetus possesses such traits that are unique for cetaceans. On the other hand, later, marine cetaceans like Dorudon, Basilosaurus. Ambulucetus and the other ones Heisonear neatly showed in his pic, also clearly possess typical anatomical attributes that are only found in artiodactyls (even-toed ungulates like Pakicetus, which unambiguously also was an artiodactyl). There are, literally, hundreds of detailed, observational studies on (fossil and extant) cetaceans like Gingerich' one spelling out the morphological evidence for that.

Further evidence we have from DNA: of all extant animals living now, the one that resembles cetaceans genetically most is hippopotamus, a land animal, artiodactyl and - surprise! - a semi-aquatic animal.

But let's go back to the cesspool of lies and deceit.]

There is also a lesson to be taught here in decent and honest debating.
When you dispute the position of your opponents, you provide arguments and when necessary observational evidence.

Here we are not in the Babble School or some seance on Sunday with people waving their hands into the air while repeating mantras endlessly.

Here, back on earth and on a debate forum, you are obliged to back up your claims.

So you say that there are zero fossils showing step by step morphological changes between distinctly different creatures? That's weird because I read such studies almost on a daily basis. They count into the tens of thousands.

Let's have such one, SHALL WE? In this post I enumerate the observational evidence for Dorudon being transitional fossils (plural, there are several specimens excavated). It's by far complete but only a very crude summary of all the observational evidence, so should have no problems addressing them with your extensive knowledge of paleontology.

[The Great Dodging has started. What you now will experience is dodging, ducking, evading, red herrings, strawmen and "La, la, la, f@ck you, didn't read that".]

I also noticed how deafening silent you are on my posts and thread about the fossils.
 
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Brightmoon

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You know he’s going to take that line about pakicetus not being an ancestor out of context . Pakicetidae were closely related to the ancestors of modern whales . This is where Heissonear nonsense comes in. He thinks that we have to point to the specific fossil individual who was the direct ancestors. Without understanding that genetics fills the tiny gap between Artiodactyla and cetaceans and did so years before we found a lot of the whale fossils.
 
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Heissonear

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Yes, I do not understand paleontology, because I do not rely on systems to classify fossils that are based on conjecture. A systematic presentation of macro-assemblages of fossils - without one sequence presented that does not require conjecture.

You take macro-assemblages as proof that they present evolution.

Read your conjecture based post above presenting "insert conjecture-based conclusions here" in numerous places.

Why? It is clear, there are no fossils inbetween the macro-assemblages that show the evolution has taken place.



The above illustration of Cetacea are a macro-assemblage of fossils, not an illustration presenting morphological evolution in detail.

And this goes back to my first post requesting the sequences of fossils between lifeforms that shows evolution.

Was that clear?

Where are the fossils between the macro-assemblages presented.

You know, the fossils between Amublocidae to Remingtonocidae to Protoceidae that shows one evolving into the other, without conjecture based claims?

I'm waiting. Not for conjecture pushed and claimed science. For evidence that proves evolution has occurred.
 
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Heissonear

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In your reply "tiny gap" illustrates the conjecture evolutionists stand on.

In this case you state the conjecture is "tiny".

Who says tiny? And who faces up to all the other conjecture, emphased as tiny or minor .........?

So far I find on CF people not facing up the how evolution has hit a brick wall of missing evidence. That evolution is based on conjecture, not fossil record proof.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Let's stick to what the fossil record actually presents verses what evolutionists claim.

This is a thread about such.
Good luck with that!

Without conjectures and unsupported claims they have no morphological evidence..... without those missing links there is no links...
 
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Justatruthseeker

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The discoverers of the claimed whale evolution have already admitted the fossils do not show what they present them as showing.





Can’t trust them to talk about facts, they prefer their fantasies....
 
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Brightmoon

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Quote mining legitimate paleontologists on tempest in a teapot quibbles Is a waste of time . I don’t care what they said because the gaps in the fossil record are filled in by genetics. Talk is cheap evidence is everything . Despite your persistent And somewhat bizarre contrarianism , common descent was demonstrated very well by Darwin and Wallace. You’re 150 years out of date
 
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Justatruthseeker

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No one believes that. Even Darwin was waiting for the millions of half formed intermediaries to be found and allowed for the fact if they were not, it would falsify his theory...

In your minds you simply lying won’t let it be falsified, even when it has....
 
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tas8831

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You need to show fossil record distinctions above Genus lifeforms.

LOL!

Hysterical!

OK, expert - you need to show flatware distinctions above the level of spoon...

AV has several recent post stating clarifying: Kind = Genus



Cool.

You just sunk your fake ark.
 
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tas8831

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Do you need more study of fossils to open your eyes to facts verses conjecture?
Project much?

Still waiting for you to explain why mammals with flippers have internal skeletal structure nearly indistinguishable from terrestrial mammals.

Oh - you didn't know?? Abeka books don't tell you about that?
 
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tas8831

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Can’t trust them to talk about facts, they prefer their fantasies....

Like Asian+African = Afro-Asian, and all races are made via hybridization despite you not knowing how the Asian and the African arose in the first place?

Say - please bring up the "genetic strand" again, won't you?

That was a great example of how creationists use keyword searches without understanding what they find in the returns. It was HILARIOUS!
 
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tas8831

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Too many science words. If this is not ignored, it will replied to with another assertion about "conjectures" and/or some irrelevant bible verses.
 
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tas8831

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There are zero fossils showing step by step morphological changes between distinctly different creatures.

There are zero fossils showing step by step morphological changes between a normal parent and their achondroplastic child.

There are zero fossils showing step by step morphological changes between distinctly different descendants of created Kinds.

In your silly desperation to prop up ancient numerologists' tales, you've sunk your ark and you don't even seem to realize it.

There are at least 5 genera in the Elephantidae. Each elephantid genus has/had at least several species/subspecies within it.

A typical elephant eats and drinks enough food and water that a single breeding pair from each genus on the ark would require nearly 1/3 of the entire internal volume of the ark for food and water storage.

Hope that gaping bullet wound in your foot heals soon...
 
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OldWiseGuy

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that works for religions . Misrepresentation and /or misunderstandings of science causes accidents famines or deaths .

Accidents, famines, and 'deaths' are part of the natural order. We are so vastly overpopulated thanks mainly to science that when we crash it will be horrendous.
 
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Brightmoon

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if you had actually read OOS , Darwin wasnt looking for those millions of intermediates because he understood that fossilization was a rare process. A 19th century man with a new science process and only detailed anatomical information understands more than a 21st century creationist who was supposed to learn this in middle school and who also has been spoon-fed information that took real researchers decades to figure out.
 
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Brightmoon

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Accidents, famines, and 'deaths' are part of the natural order. We are so vastly overpopulated thanks mainly to science that when we crash it will be horrendous.
science makes birth control possible too. But some fundies want to make it as difficult as possible for a woman to plan her family.

When it’s your family that dies from defective manufacturing because of poor science information, I promise I won’t rub it in, even though it would be due to creationists interfering with a decent science education
 
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OldWiseGuy

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science makes birth control possible too. But some fundies want to make it as difficult as possible for a woman to plan her family.

The Christian west (where the fundies are) aren't the problem. In fact we are soon to be a minority ethnically as our birthrate has plummeted to below replacement levels in many places.

When it’s your family that dies from defective manufacturing because of poor science information, I promise I won’t rub it in, even though it would be due to creationists interfering with a decent science education

Creationists may disagree with the teaching of evolution but they hardly interfere with it. Anyway serious science courses are electives anyway. No one pays good money for a science class then protests what is being taught.
 
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Brightmoon

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they’re always interfering with the teaching of science . And it’s not just evolution, they interfere with teaching all of these: the Big Bang, the age of the earth, the age of the universe, global warming . On a government level they interfere with funding for research and they refuse to acknowledge science based problems
 
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