Fossil Challenge for Evolutionists

Subduction Zone · Apr 20, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
The first man lived thousands of years apart from the second man or woman?
So persons lived thousands of years ago back at the beginning?
What came first, the chicken or the egg?

I'm sorry, but science makes little sense to me.

Don't trust people that misrepresent science if you want to understand it.

Y-chromosome Adam was not the only man in existence at his time. There would have been thousands at that time. He is merely the one that all males can directly trace a line to. At any one time if we start out with a population and work backwards we will see the number of male line ancestors goes down. Even though the population itself does not.

The same applies to mitochondrial Eve. There was no need for both of them to exist at the same time.

I mentioned 1 Cor 2:14
It's all the same...even 2,000 years ago. The thief on the cross told Jesus to get down from the cross if He was the Son of God. Atheists and Christians are living in two different worlds.

Jesus came to set up the Kingdom of God. It has nothing to do with evolution or fossils or science..it has to do with how humans treat each other. One could be a scientist and still belong to the Kingdom. For some reason, we've divided the two.

I've never heard this. Sounds like you're speaking of Dualism...?

Satan just tries to get as many souls as he can.
Jesus bought us back...but not everyone wants to be bought back...to some it sounds like a "myth".
Jesus was not a myth.

Let's just leave the Bible out of this since it can only look bad if one tries to abuse it in this manner.

pitabread · Apr 20, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
Christianity says that God created all things..
those seen
and those unseen

It's interesting that back in 325 AD some guys that wrote that had some inkling that there were things that we could not see.

That doesn't seem so far-fetched. For instance we can't see the wind, but we can certainly feel it.

Certainly someone from 325 AD could have reasoned the same.

Which is interesting because hospitals are full of sick people and tsunamis kill thousands --- but evil doesn't exist.

Are you suggesting that bacteria or viruses are evil? That weather patterns resulting in things like tsunamis are evil?

Christianity lets me understand the "system" that has been set up by someone/thing that functions with math and other laws.

Okay. In what way does it help you understand this?

Science can't create an organism even knowing what it would take. Mix and mingle but nothing of value happens.

There has been a lot of research into origin of life and scientists have made significant progress over the years including unlocking pathways for many biochemical precursors necessary for life. If you're suggesting that is of no value, then I don't what to tell you.

And yet, billions of years ago,,,just be chance...all the right chemicals got together and created life.

Chemistry is not pure chance. If you mix certain chemicals together in specific conditions, you will get predictable results.

When it comes to origin of life research, that is exactly what scientists are trying to unlock: what were the specific chemical processes and conditions that led to the first life on Earth.

GodsGrace101 · Apr 20, 2019

Speedwell said:
What changed in this country is that Christianity is being increasingly tied to a disgusting and un-American right-wing political agenda.

I'm not there and I can't really know anymore.
Watching the news is not the same as living there.
I just gave up on trying to understand...I used to be very knowledgeable about politics back when I lived there.

GodsGrace101 · Apr 20, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Not even then. Since the Exodus is thought to have never have happened as portrayed in the Bible it becoming "factual" does not begin until later. In fact since most of it was written after the Babylonian exile (including the works of "Moses") it is probably a mixture of history and legend for anything before then.

It happened. But the parting of the Sea (probably not the Red Sea) might have happened due to natural causes...that river dries up during certain seasons and it might have taken Pharaoh's soldiers a long time to get there....not like in the movies that they take off from Cairo and are there in no time.

Moses didn't write all of the Torah...
I don't know why this bothers you. We're talking about over 3,000 years ago, no other history has been so well preserved - I should say writings.
Everything that was found in Qumran confirms what is written in the bible.

The whole question hinges on Jesus:
Who do YOU say that I am?
Mathew 16:13-20
Your personal answer holds the key.

GodsGrace101 · Apr 20, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
There never was a time that there were only two individuals. Unless one goes back to when the first cell divided. But to call them "Adam and Eve" and try to blame to cells on a "fallen world" seems rather strange to me.

God could have intervened and changed a primitive type of man to be more like His image. We just can't really know.

GodsGrace101 · Apr 20, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Defensive verses appear in many religious texts. They only exist because those spreading religion often realize their stories have truck sized holes in them and that they need an excuse. That does not help your cause it is only a step in a circular argument.

And it is incorrect to claim that others are not willing to consider God. Many Christians and even many atheists consider God and realize that only a dishonest God would plant endless evidence that only supports the theory of evolution and none that supports the creation story. In fact they come to accepting the theory of evolution because they did "consider God".

Re your 1st paragraph: OR it's the truth.
Re your 2nd paragraph: You wanted God to plant "proof"?

Jesus came back from the dead. What more do you want?

Jesus said: Blessed are those who do not see and yet believe.

He told the Pharisees that kept asking for proof that they would only have the proof of Jonah.
And that's what they got.

Subduction Zone · Apr 20, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
It happened. But the parting of the Sea (probably not the Red Sea) might have happened due to natural causes...that river dries up during certain seasons and it might have taken Pharaoh's soldiers a long time to get there....not like in the movies that they take off from Cairo and are there in no time.

Moses didn't write all of the Torah...
I don't know why this bothers you. We're talking about over 3,000 years ago, no other history has been so well preserved - I should say writings.
Everything that was found in Qumran confirms what is written in the bible.

The whole question hinges on Jesus:
Who do YOU say that I am?
Mathew 16:13-20
Your personal answer holds the key.

Why would you make such a claim? There is no evidence for any of that. In fact the lack of evidence is why it is thought that there was no Exodus. Moses was a fictional character. People that have studied the Bible realize this.

Subduction Zone · Apr 20, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
Re your 1st paragraph: OR it's the truth.
Re your 2nd paragraph: You wanted God to plant "proof"?

Jesus came back from the dead. What more do you want?

Jesus said: Blessed are those who do not see and yet believe.

He told the Pharisees that kept asking for proof that they would only have the proof of Jonah.
And that's what they got.

No, I don't want God to "plant truth". The problem is that you are claiming that he planted lies. That is why we know that parts of the Bible are not to be read literally. You still do not see why defensive verses are of no value. By your standards all religions are correct.

Subduction Zone · Apr 20, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
God could have intervened and changed a primitive type of man to be more like His image. We just can't really know.

Then you can't make any claims about the myths of the Bible. What we do know is that man is the product of evolution.

GodsGrace101 · Apr 20, 2019

pitabread said:
Except scientists don't agree on gravity. One of the biggest challenges in physics is coming up with a unified quantum theory. The stumbling block is quantum gravity.

Currently there are a number of proposed theories, but no unified acceptance of any yet: Quantum gravity - Wikipedia

Scientists by and large do agree on evolution (that it exists and that life appears to share common ancestry). And the only scientists that reject evolution do so because of perceived conflict with their personal religious beliefs.

I do know that gravity is not understood, but at least everyone knows it exists.

I looked at the link for Lucy. We would see all this back through my schooling years. It seems like not much has changed. What I find very interesting is the big jump to modern man. It seems like a really big change all of a sudden, by the timeline given.

Do you agree?

GodsGrace101 · Apr 20, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
No, I don't want God to "plant truth". The problem is that you are claiming that he planted lies. That is why we know that parts of the Bible are not to be read literally. You still do not see why defensive verses are of no value. By your standards all religions are correct.

I claimed that God planted lies?
When did I do that?

And, yes, I believe God is in every religion.
You think He's only in the Christian religion?

GodsGrace101 · Apr 20, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Then you can't make any claims about the myths of the Bible. What we do know is that man is the product of evolution.

What myths are you talking about?
First of all, the bible is NOT a history book.
Second, Jesus was a real person and Christianity is based on HIM.

GodsGrace101 · Apr 20, 2019

pitabread said:
Except scientists don't agree on gravity. One of the biggest challenges in physics is coming up with a unified quantum theory. The stumbling block is quantum gravity.

Currently there are a number of proposed theories, but no unified acceptance of any yet: Quantum gravity - Wikipedia

Scientists by and large do agree on evolution (that it exists and that life appears to share common ancestry). And the only scientists that reject evolution do so because of perceived conflict with their personal religious beliefs.

Quantum theory and string theory is beyond what I could understand.

Speedwell · Apr 20, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
I do know that gravity is not understood, but at least everyone knows it exists.

We know that evolution happened, and we understand it better than we understand gravity.

But I don't understand why you oppose evolution, since you are not a biblical literalist.

GodsGrace101 · Apr 20, 2019

Speedwell said:
We know that evolution happened, and we understand it better than we understand gravity.

But I don't understand why you oppose evolution, since you are not a biblical literalist.

I don't oppose evolution...
I've said that I don't understand how it could be possible. If it's discovered next week that we come from the primordial soup,,,I won't faint. I just don't see how it could be possible.

If this is the same as opposing it...so be it. But I don't think so.

Subduction Zone · Apr 20, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
I do know that gravity is not understood, but at least everyone knows it exists.

I looked at the link for Lucy. We would see all this back through my schooling years. It seems like not much has changed. What I find very interesting is the big jump to modern man. It seems like a really big change all of a sudden, by the timeline given.

Do you agree?

Do you think that it goes right from Lucy to modern man?

GodsGrace101 · Apr 20, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Do you think that it goes right from Lucy to modern man?

You put words in my mouth...as they say.
I never said that.
I said it seems that change took a lot of time and then all of a sudden, by the timing on the graph, it seems that modern man just "showed up".

It does seem rather sudden to me.
I asked @pitabread if he agrees.

Subduction Zone · Apr 20, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
I don't oppose evolution...
I've said that I don't understand how it could be possible. If it's discovered next week that we come from the primordial soup,,,I won't faint. I just don't see how it could be possible.

If this is the same as opposing it...so be it. But I don't think so.

Then rather than opposing it one should try to learn. There is practically no opposition to evolution in the world of science. Yes, there are a very few scientists in the field that oppose it, but in any large group there are going to be some nuts. Those that oppose it cannot support any other beliefs with scientific evidence, all they have is denial.

GodsGrace101 · Apr 20, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Then rather than opposing it one should try to learn. There is practically no opposition to evolution in the world of science. Yes, there are a very few scientists in the field that oppose it, but in any large group there are going to be some nuts. Those that oppose it cannot support any other beliefs with scientific evidence, all they have is denial.

You want I should become a scientist?
LOL

Subduction Zone · Apr 20, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:
You put words in my mouth...as they say.
I never said that.
I said it seems that change took a lot of time and then all of a sudden, by the timing on the graph, it seems that modern man just "showed up".

It does seem rather sudden to me.
I asked @pitabread if he agrees.

You should look at a more complete picture. There is a video that I know of that shows various skulls starting with those older than Lucy. He continually asks if there is a big jump from one skull to the next and the only answer is "No".

Fossil Challenge for Evolutionists

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