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Difficult to speak to someone who puts you down from the get go.Yet you don't know enough about science to know that science doesn't suggest we did.
Yet you don't know enough about science to know that there was no "before" the big bang.
Yet you don't know enough about science to know that science doesn't suggest our DNA came together by chance.
Sorry, magic does not make more sense. Even if it did, it doesn't mean that intuition is correct. It made more sense to ancient people that lightning occurred because gods were angry than some natural means. How'd that turn out?
We actually don't know what is needed for abiogenesis...if we did, we probably could repeat it in a lab.
You aren't trying to learn anything.
You are STILL making the "something can't come from nothing" claim, despite the fact that several of us have been telling you for weeks that science doesn't even suggest such a thing. That none of us believe that something came from nothing. And that the only ones who DO believe something came from nothing are theists.
You have been told repeatedly that evolution is not random, and that it is independent of abiogenesis.
You make no attempt to understand our explanations, and instead just repeat your same misrepresentations of the opposing position, when we have explained to you that we don't even believe the positions you're arguing against.
We weren't expecting you to, either.
Maybe you, unlike any other creationist who has been asked here, can explain exactly what kind of "change" you are looking for? In other words, what would you expect to see if evolution were true, but we actually don't? Be specific.
I haven't seen this before.I don't remember whether I've posted this figure in this thread or not, but to me, this looks very much like one animal changing into another in the fossil record.
View attachment 254260
There is far more similarity than difference, and the differences are relatively minor. In the case of cognition, the minor differences passed a tipping point, becoming hugely significant; the synergy of advanced sense of self, temporal awareness, language, and culture - all traits which are present in various animals in primitive forms, but insufficient to synergise and reach that tipping point.I meant we're very similar in many ways, and very different in others. Maybe the word "very" shouldn't be there? Like, MANY and ALL, and NONE, and EVERY...it always turns out to be wrong.
Indeed. My degree was in human biology, which included anatomy, evolution, and anthropology.I don't think I have to make two lists with you...
I'm sure you know them.
Not exactly. Supernatural beliefs, in general, are forms of superstitious thinking. Superstitious beliefs in ancestral spirits may have rational origins, in as much as ancestors were real and aspects of them could be said to live on in the memories of their descendants (as Robert Montgomery so poetically put it, "The people you love become ghosts inside of you and like this you keep them alive"), and perhaps god beliefs piggy-back on this concept, but they take it one step beyond, into the imaginary.I hope you're not going to say that God is a superstition.
Even if one accepts the biblical Jesus as a real charismatic preacher who believed he had divine connections, that doesn't demonstrate the existence of a God - history is replete with people making exactly the same claim; they differ in their lifestyles and messages. It happened that Jesus' lifestyle and message had particular resonance. One could say that sooner or later someone would turn up in the right place at the right time with the right message...... Jesus came here and that would demonstrate to me that He IS involved with His creation.
The god beliefs. The paragraph is about the basis of god beliefs. I was using the term to illustrate how spurious attribution of agency is part of everyday language (like saying "The car refused to start"). So, god beliefs 'exploit' our overactive tendency to attribute agency & purpose, our apprehension at personal death, and our natural desire for comfort & security.... WHO is exploiting us and WHY.....(the churches?)
Sorry about that - see above. I'll try to keep it simple.The blue words didn't get me anywhere....
Literally.
The soul doesn't definitely exist - people have tried to detect it for years without success. The problem of interaction, which that page explained (and you say you understood) explains one important reason to doubt its relevance, if not its existence.It's much too complicated for me although I do understand what's it's speaking about. I find it a bit miraculous that I could tell my brain to hit the H key and it does. I don't know how this could be explained scientifically....It's an unseen force causing a seen action. The soul definitely exists - it's what makes us be different. Is it just a bunch of neurons in the brain doing something or other? And what about the spirit? Do monkeys wonder where they come from? I don't think so.
Yes; don't look too closely - if it feels right it must be right - right?Or maybe it's not important to them, or maybe they just don't understand it, or maybe it's just not necessary....
When you have God,,,you feel complete and the searching is over.
I don't remember what I said...but here's an example:I should like to see you arguments regarding this claim, and the evidence you have for it.
It didn't.I don't remember what I said...but here's an example:
I don't understand how any of the following could have happened by chance:
You're making a habit of emphasising your lack of knowledge and understanding of a topic, then going on to misrepresent it or make unsupported assertions about it. This is beginning to come across as duplicitous...I haven't seen this before.
Plus, I don't understand it.
What I'm saying is:
I'm not as scientist so I don't expect to understand it...
But why do I hear SCIENTISTS state that THEY don't see this change in animlas? IOW, I don't hear them all saying the same thing.
Why am I wrong in not believing something as sure...if the very persons who are supposed to agree...do NOT agree?
But does this fallibility apply to your God beliefs? could you be mistaken about them?I do believe we're fallible, and I do believe we're still searching for the truth.
Of course not!But does this fallibility apply to your God beliefs? could you be mistaken about them?
How am I misrepresenting it?You're making a habit of emphasising your lack of knowledge and understanding of a topic, then going on to misrepresent it or make unsupported assertions about it. This is beginning to come across as duplicitous...
??It didn't.
Which scientists are saying that, and what precisely are they saying?But why do I hear SCIENTISTS state that THEY don't see this change in animlas? IOW, I don't hear them all saying the same thing.
I don't remember what I said...but here's an example:
I don't understand how any of the following could have happened by chance:
Perhaps you could explain what you mean -??
What do you mean,,,it did't?
This ties in to fossil remains and evolution.
HOW does the DNA get the information as to how to create what it's supposed to create?
What I'm saying is that it's too complicated to have happened by chance. I just can't believe that everything came about just so,,,,just right,,,,to cause all we see around us.Let us assume for the sake of discussion that the consensus is that those things happened by chance - and that you don't understand how that could be.
Does that mean that those things could NOT have come about by chance because you don't understand how?
I don't understand how Yahweh made a man from dust of the ground - therefore, it didn't happen?
I'm not quite sure what you are implying by your assertion that you don't understand how.
Yes, I really shouldn't be here.Perhaps you could explain what you mean -
What do you mean when you write "HOW does the DNA get the information"?
What do you mean when you write "what it's supposed to create"?
What do you mean by "information"?
You DO have to intellectually understand what you believe to be true.Let us assume for the sake of discussion that the consensus is that those things happened by chance - and that you don't understand how that could be.
Does that mean that those things could NOT have come about by chance because you don't understand how?
I don't understand how Yahweh made a man from dust of the ground - therefore, it didn't happen?
I'm not quite sure what you are implying by your assertion that you don't understand how.
What I'm saying is that it's too complicated to have happened by chance.
I just can't believe that a tribal deity from the middle east created a man from dust, so...I just can't believe that everything came about just so,,,,just right,,,,to cause all we see around us.
And swimming pools are just the right size to contain the water they are filled with.Our planet is just the right distance from the sun...
Humans made it up - we call it a language because some consider the way it interacts with other molecules to have language-like properties. I guess. But it is not an actual languiage.DNA has a language...who made up that language?
I've posted different scientists -- mathematicians, chemists, that do believe in some kind of intelligent design, or a fine-tuned universe, but I can't keep posting them.
And there will never be enough, will there?I think we should wait for more evidence,,,,that's all.
Why don't you think so? How much do you actually know about it? What the folks at the Discovery Institute say? Or other creationists?What about the Cambrian explosion?
Is there any explanation for that?
I don't think so....
Well, you shouldn't be so dismissive of the information people are trying to give you to counter the disinformation you seem to have grabbed onto.Yes, I really shouldn't be here.
But that is not what the genetic code really is.DNA:
DNA is made up of molecules called nucleotides. Each nucleotide contains a phosphate group, a sugar group and a nitrogen base. The four types of nitrogen bases are adenine (A), thymine (T), guanine (G) and cytosine (C). The order of these bases is what determines DNA's instructions, or genetic code
I guess by language I mean the genetic code.
It's a language, just like we have computer language...but with computers it's two numbers and with DNA it's four..as above.
Then perhaps instead of just repeating the questions, you could try to learn?I don't understand HOW this could have happened by chance.
Not really.Don't know how else to explain it.
Each DNA molecule has specific instructions for the creature it's supposed to create.
But a nucleotide has NO instructions or information associated with it, certainly not in the context you are referring to.By information, I mean the instructions in the DNA molecule, or nucleotide.
It doesn't seem that way to me. And I've been teaching about this stuff for a few decades. I will not pretend to be an expert on this particular issue, but when one goes a bit more in-depth - beyond the wading in the shallow end of the DNA-science pool, one finds that it is not quite as simplistic as creationists will have their target audience believe.It just seems to me that it was put there by something...some being.
You DO have to intellectually understand what you believe to be true.
The creator of the universe made everything ..or caused everything to be made.. including man.
So you understand the child's answer (not to be mean) - it is easy to "understand" the mythology of ancient middle eastern numerologists because it is mere story-telling. How did the world get here? Why, our God did it! How did people get here? Why, our GOD did it!I understand this much more than trying to understand how all this came from nothing.
So what caused God?Something or some being had to be the first cause...some being had to get things rolling.
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