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So... ever thought that maybe... just maybe... what God says in the Bible may be conditional according to context? That maybe... just MAYbe... what is sin for a group of semi-nomadic pastoralist patriarchists with a cultural bloodline fixation, might not be sin for post industrialist, post contraception universal suffragists? Because wwhat is demonstrably a bad thing in one context is not at all bad in the other?
Rather than turning off your brain after "the Bible says" perhaps try to think about WHY the Bible says what it says?
I'm glad I'm not where you are in your thinking...you have no foundation....your mind will find an excuse to commit any sin it takes a fancy to.
1Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
Premarital sex has been shown through all history to cause only harm.
The only 'argument' for looser standards of sexual purity is that of 'cultural pressure'. Just for the tally book, I do NOT agree with this argument.
The Bible and the message of God has not changed. Only 'popular opinion'. In my experience, God is far more pleased with serving His will than with chasing popular opinion.
I'm really disappointed in a lot of these responses...as to whether or not fornication is sin. I looked up the word "fornication" in the Bible and it is used 32 times. There are two types of fornication - spiritual or physical - BUT BOTH are sin, according to the Bible. I don't need to understand anything about GNOSTIC influences to understand that fornication was a sin and is still a sin today. If you don't believe fornication is a sin, then you really should stop calling yourself a Christian, because when you call yourself a Christian, you are stating you believe the Bible - God's Word - to be true.
2Ch_21:11 Moreover he made high places in the mountains of Judah, and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit fornication, and compelled Judah thereto.
Isa_23:17 And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the LORD will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth.
Eze_16:26 Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger.
Eze_16:29 Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith.
Mat_5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Mat_19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Joh_8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Act_15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act_15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Act_21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
Rom_1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
1Co_5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
1Co_6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
1Co_6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Co_7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
1Co_10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
2Co_12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.
Gal_5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Eph_5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Col_3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
1Th_4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
Jud_1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Rev_2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Rev_2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Rev_2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev_9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Rev_14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev_17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev_17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev_18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev_18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev_19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
As Christians, we need to stop trying to lower the standard of righteousness into the gutter, and raise the banner high above this world filled with sin.
So you're happy with "the Bible says" as the end point of your intellectual process.
In ancient times people were married by about 14-16 years old...todays sociological practices extend the adolescence to about 25 or 30...we have caused this particular sin to escalate far far beyond what could have been conceived of 2000 years ago....this is a sin about 90% of all Christians commit (I was guilty of this before I got saved so I am not judging)
Originally Posted by TammyI'm sure she (Tammy) is happy with what "the Bible says" and so am I.I'm glad I'm not where you are in your thinking...you have no foundation....your mind will find an excuse to commit any sin it takes a fancy to.
1Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
There are quite a few Christians who believe the Bible is the Word of God.
I'm also quite happy with what the Bible says when it was written. It was interesting that fornication meant prostitution when when the KJV was written. Its been since the Elizabethan age that the definition of fornication was changed to premarital sex.
So I've not found anywhere that the Bible says per-marital sex is a sin.
The Bible was not written in the Elizabethan age. If your looking for a statement that says "X (premarital sex , pediphilia, pornography, etc.) is a sin" before you will accept that an act of pure self gratification is a sin, then you are looking for a loophole in the command to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. The OT contains 613 various rules that the Pharisees kept and considered themselves holy because they kept them to the letter of the law(including finding any loopholes they could). Jesus called those Pharissees hypocrites and said about them the following
Matthew 5:20
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
He summed up the law in one sentence
Luke 10:27
"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself."
and removed the possibility of loopholes in so doing.
Yes.
"Everything is permissible to me."
Establishes first that our intent is not to be Pharisaic in depending on written code for a "bright line" defining "righteous" and "unrighteous" for every possible situation.
Righteousness is not found in declaring a rule about how far can you walk on the Sabbath before it becomes "work."
"But not everything is beneficial."
What we're seeking is the "beneficial." How can we live in such a way that our actions provide continual benefit to ourselves as Christians, to others who are Christians, and to the mission of the Church to spread the gospel of Jesus?
"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself."
That's not looking for lower boundaries of righteousness. The one-talent steward was only interested in "not doing the wrong thing," but he failed in doing the beneficial thing. He didn't even try.
Casual sex between unmarried people...the question is not "is it a sin?" the question is: Does it provide benefit to ourselves as Christians, to others who are Christians, and to the mission of the Church to spread the gospel of Jesus?
The Bible was not written in the Elizabethan age. If your looking for a statement that says "X (premarital sex , pediphilia, pornography, etc.) is a sin" before you will accept that an act of pure self gratification is a sin, then you are looking for a loophole in the command to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. The OT contains 613 various rules that the Pharisees kept and considered themselves holy because they kept them to the letter of the law(including finding any loopholes they could). Jesus called those Pharissees hypocrites and said about them the following
Matthew 5:20
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
He summed up the law in one sentence
Luke 10:27
"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself."
and removed the possibility of loopholes in so doing.
1968 Prophecy by 90 Year Old Woman in Norway
"There will be a moral disintegration that old Norway has never experienced the likes of. People will live together like married without being married. (I do not believe the concept co-habitor? existed in 1968 - E. Minos.) Much uncleanness before marriage, and much infidelity in marriage will become the natural (the common), and it will be justified from every angle. It will even enter Christian circles and we pet it - even sin against nature.
It wasn't too long ago, relatively speaking, that an unmarried man and woman couldn't live together. By law.People will live together like married without being married.
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