Formerly Reformed, now Orthodox

[Maximus]

I never heard that about Judas before. It is interesting.

Don't the Ethiopians regard Pontius Pilate as a saint?

 

[CopticOrthodox]

The Ethiopians have a tradition that Christ appeared to Pilate and that Pilate and his wife subsequently converted to Christianity, they consider him a saint.

As for Judas: "3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself." Mat 27:3-5

 

[MariaRegina]

The Ethiopians have a tradition that Christ appeared to Pilate and that Pilate and his wife subsequently converted to Christianity, they consider him a saint.

As for Judas: "3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself." Mat 27:3-5

Dear Coptic, Maximus, and interested readers:

A Catholic friend gave me an article (passed out by filipinos) that asserts that Pilate converted to Christianity; however, it did not have any imprimatir, so I considered it suspicious and discarded it as one of those spurious beliefs. However, nothing is impossible with God. What does tradition teach us?

According to some Catholic and Orthodox Tradition, I heard that Herold died of a terrible worm infestation. Does anyone have any evidence of that?

Yours truly in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

 

[Maximus]

"So on a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat on his throne and gave an oration to them. And the people kept shouting, 'The voice of a god and not a man!' Then immediately an angel of the Lord struck him, because he did not give glory to God. And he was eaten by worms and died" (Acts 12:21-23).

 

[Maximus]

The Ethiopians have a tradition that Christ appeared to Pilate and that Pilate and his wife subsequently converted to Christianity, they consider him a saint.

As for Judas: "3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself." Mat 27:3-5

What I meant about not knowing about Judas was what chanter's priest said about his being given the chance to repent in Hades when our Lord Jesus descended there.

I had never heard that before. I knew the passage from Matthew.

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Maximus and Coptic:

When I was studying the Didache, someone asked about praying for your enemies, even those who had died. Father said it was charitable to pray for the dead. Then someone asked about St. Silouan, the recently canonized saint, who prayed for Judas and Satan. The priest said he doubted that Satan could be saved as the angels don't have free will like men. However, Judas did have free will, and according to the Holy Fathers probably was given a chance to repent when he was in Hades with our Lord. All who accepted His preaching with repentance were admitted into heaven.

When we die, however, we won't be given a second chance, because Christ is with us in His Church. The people of the Old Testament did not have the Church and the sacraments. Yet, Judas did live with the Apostles and Christ for three years. So there is some doubt, and for good reason. We must in charity pray for all departed souls.

Hope this helps.

Yours in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

 

[Maximus]

The priest said he doubted that Satan could be saved as the angels don't have free will like men.

How could that be?

How did Lucifer choose to rebel against God if Lucifer did not have free will?

How did the angels who followed him choose to do so if they lacked free will?

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Maximus:

According to the Holy Fathers, the angels are spiritual beings distinct from men who are created in the very image of Christ, the Incarnate Word of God. This is why Satan hates us so much as he is very jealous. When God revealed His creative plans to the angels and their part in it (as protectors of men), that is when Satan rebelled. When Christ ascended into heaven, being the God-man, it was obvious that men were created higher than the angels. The Theotokos displaced Lucifier. We honor her as

More honorable than the Cherubim, and more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim, thou who without stain barest God the Word, and art truly Theotokos, we magnify Thee. (Antiochian Church, Service Book p. 43)

I don't have the time at my disposal to do a search. Could you? I have just taken it on faith, because I was taught this by both the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. It is consistent with both churches.

Hope this helps

Elizabeth

 

[MariaRegina]

Christ, the Incarnate God-man, appeared as the Incarnate God before His incarnation in the womb of the Theotokos:

(1) When He walked with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Paradise;

(2) When He appeared as a man to Abraham at the Oaks (the three angels); and
(3) when He appeared as a man in the blazing furnace with the three youths mentioned in the book of Daniel.

Christ, being God, is not limited by time.

Man was created in this image of the Incarnate God.
That is why we don't cremate the body or mutilate it.
Sadly the Catholics seem to have lost this teaching.

[Edit]When I was growing up in the Catholic Church, I was taught that the body was evil (almost a Manichean belief) and that our spirit is created in the image of God and that is why we have this yearning for immortality. So there is this dualistic tendency in the Catholic Church which spawned the Reformation and the Calvinistic teachings.

 

[MariaRegina]

You know, this takes on a whole new meaning with the Theotokos -- She is very much like her Son in appearance. Wow! I never thought of this before. When you see her, she has a family resemblance to her Son. She is truly created in His Image, as she gave birth to the Life.

Holy, Holy, Holy. Now I'm excited about going to Heaven.

 

[Oblio]

She is very much like her Son in appearance. Wow! I never thought of this before. When you see her, she has a family resemblance to her Son. She is truly created in His Image, as she gave birth to the Life.

And He as the Son of Man, took on her flesh, that He created. His physical features and appearance came from her, and from no other man !

 

[Peter]

The discussion here is great. I am a former Protestant, lately Reformed, who has embraced Orthodoxy. Due to family issues, I'm married and have 6 children, I am not a "card carrying" Orthodox. I am waiting to make the move as a family. But here's the kicker, I work as a teacher in a Christian school that is founded on Reformed ideals and my wife is director of children's ministries in a Presbyterian church.
It would be helpful for me, in this thread, to perhaps return to the original question, unless that has played itself out already.

Peace.

Peter

 

[MariaRegina]

Dear Peter,

Welcome!

I will repost this edited edit as it does have some bearing on the original topic:

When I was growing up in the Catholic Church, I was taught that the body was evil (almost a Manichean belief) and that our spirit is created in the image of God and that is why we have this yearning for immortality. We were to avoid the world, the flesh and the devil. Our body is flesh isn't it. Anyway a lot of us Catholics had skewed ideas on sex because of that teaching. So there is this dualistic tendency in the Catholic Church which spawned the Reformation and the Calvinistic teachings.

Within Orthodoxy, flesh represents the fleshly passions, not the body, which is created in the image of God.

Hope this helps. (So the detour on the Theotokos was related - she gives us a healthy image of the body.)

 

[Oblio]

Welcome Peter,

Hope you like it here !

 

[MariaRegina]

Come to think of it.

I was reading about Jansenism which sprang from Catholicism and was condemned for it's calvinistic leanings.

The teaching went that men were so depraved sexually that they couldn't be saved so why try.

The flesh was a real handicap to the Jansenists.

 

[MariaRegina]

I've heard that even Jansenism infected the Orthodox, especially in Russia, and that was one reason why the Orthodox had infrequent communion.

Priests told me that in the Early Church everyone present during the Liturgy of the Eucharist, would partake of the Holy Eucharist. Then they had the people who lapsed, who had to leave with the catechumens when the deacon said, "The Door! The Door! Let us attend! Let no catechumen remain!

Any thoughts here?