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Former SDA the bitterest of enemies...

mmksparbud

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Reading these hate sites can make some people start to question their faith--but our faith should be able to handle whatever mud is slung. Yes, I debate with those who want to smear us--it has only strengthened my faith, and lead me to study both the writings of EGW and the bible. These people say many awful things, and even downright make up stuff and others believe it. I prefer to know what these "detractors" are saying so I am not surprised later. I can research the truth and figure things out with the help of God. I have not been called to debate, but neither have I been called to lay down and have them pile lies and misconceptions over me and others. The study of the bible is our truth, our salvation, love for God and His truth drive us to speak that truth to others.
It may seem like a waste of time, but you might be amazed at what others, who do not post, are reading and understanding. Even some that oppose us openly, have privately agreed and seen truth.
All anyone has to do is google Seventh day Adventist and up will come all sorts of sites, along with the anti-sda sites--and they can be pretty mean and must not be investigated without first a great deal of prayer.
One day, we will stand trial for our believes and then those anti-sda's will bring up all these negative things and catch us by surprise--I hate that.
And I know--we are not to worry about what to say, for the Lord will give us the right words to say---I do not worry, but it doesn't hurt to be a little prepared.
 
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Castaway57

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Reading these hate sites can make some people start to question their faith--
It is never wrong to not want to refer people to web sites that do not give a correct picture of things, or that do not lift up the name of Jesus.
 
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JohnMarsten

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Again I can see the black and white thinking that is prevailent in the SDA. Everyone that speaks up against the SDA is declared an enemy, former members are apparently the bitterest of all enemies...

WOW!

Thankfully Jesus said we should love our enemies, and maybe even try take them seriously...! ;)
 
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Castaway57

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Again I can see the black and white thinking that is prevailent in the SDA. Everyone that speaks up against the SDA is declared an enemy, former members are apparently the bitterest of all enemies...

WOW!

Thankfully Jesus said we should love our enemies, and maybe even try take them seriously...! ;)
It is important to note that the "black & white thinking" you refer to is not embraced by all Adventists; and in particular, on this forum, they are a long ways off from representing the official Adventist teachings on almost everything they post about here. They are NOT "Traditional Adventists" by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, certain ones here are not Adventists and do not attend an Adventist Church.
 
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Will we ever learn anything from history? What about Jesus? What about the Reformers? In order to come in contact with the "traditional" and the "not so traditional" Jews, Jesus had to accomplish His God-given mission independently of the "organized work" of His day. For that reason Jesus was branded as being antagonistic to the "organized work" and so were the Reformers and so will it be with the men and women today who are not too wise or too learned to believe just what God says.

History will be repeated. 1 Cor.10:11.

"That which has been is that which will be and there is nothing new under the sun." Ecc.1:9.

sky
 
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Castaway57

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Will we ever learn anything from history? What about Jesus? What about the Reformers? In order to come in contact with the "traditional" and the "not so traditional" Jews, Jesus had to accomplish His God-given mission independently of the "organized work" of His day. For that reason Jesus was branded as being antagonistic to the "organized work" and so were the Reformers and so will it be with the men and women today who are not too wise or too learned to believe just what God says.

History will be repeated. 1 Cor.10:11.

"That which has been is that which will be and there is nothing new under the sun." Ecc.1:9.

sky
Ahhh yes. The Jesus excuse. well; thats certainly nothing new.

You cant invent your own religion and then blame it on Jesus. Your defiant abuse of the spirit of prophecy shows you definitely would not fall into the category of a "reformer."
 
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JohnMarsten

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It is important to note that the "black & white thinking" you refer to is not embraced by all Adventists; and in particular, on this forum, they are a long ways off from representing the official Adventist teachings on almost everything they post about here. They are NOT "Traditional Adventists" by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, certain ones here are not Adventists and do not attend an Adventist Church.

Well, I am not sure about that... but you might be right... I dont know too many SDA nowadays...

What I was referring is the idea of exclusivity which the SDA is built upon, as long as you are benevolent towards the organization, everything 'might' be OK, but once you start questioning things, or if you are a stand up guy and start critisizing things, well... the people in charge will start fighting you down... imaginge Nazi Germany! was there any point in argueing Hitlers claims? I guess not, and so is the situation in the SDA. You either agree or you may want to take a leave of absence...

Consequently people who left the church must have been mislead by the devil (or at least thats the notion that goes into circulation), and those who oppose the church on the internet for example will become 'bitterest' enemies...

My personal take on these people is that they had been SDAs for quite some time, believing in God first, and then accepted the SDA... with all unnecessary baggadge there is... and once they found out things might be not so true (or had some seriously bad experience within) they do the same thing a person does who just joined the SDA, which is to bring the good news to the people. These people believe that Jesus has led them out of the church for a reason... and calling them enemies and telling lies about them etc. will only reassure them that they have made the right decision.
 
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E.T.Elijah

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Well John...the only problem is that there are few who come here or create anti-sda websites that are sharing the "good news". Most of it is accusations of lying, plagerizing, legalism, etc. Take yourself for example. When was the last time that you came to this forum and spoke of the "good news?" What I usually see is thread after thread of negative anti-sda propoganda (usually not even your own just stuff taken from some other website). But when confronted with the rebuttal or explaination of the misunderstanding, you refuse to even listen. By your own admission, you say you don't want to hear it. If thats the way you feel, fine, I have no proplem with you having a differring understanding of spiritual things. It isn't each other that we have to answer to in the end anyways. What I do have a problem with is when someone comes into the "traditional adventist" forum and starts threads with the sole purpose of starting controversy and conflict. If there was a general interest in wanting to understand our beliefs that would be one thing, but all too often there is never a spirit of acquiring understanding. And most haven't realized that it is blatantly obvious after a few posts what the real motive is. And it usually has something to do with some wrong that someone inside the adventist church did to them. And then from that point their eyes were opened to the "deception" of adventism. Now it is their "duty" to set all of us adventists straight. And it's a wonder why I post very little in this forum. I'd rather save what time I have answering people with genuine comments or are uplifting others, rather than those that are trolling to bring others down.
 
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Castaway57

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Well, I am not sure about that... but you might be right... I dont know too many SDA nowadays...

What I was referring is the idea of exclusivity which the SDA is built upon, as long as you are benevolent towards the organization, everything 'might' be OK, but once you start questioning things, or if you are a stand up guy and start critisizing things, well... the people in charge will start fighting you down...
I am not sure just how you would know this; being as you just said you "don't know too many SDA today." I can say that in my church; we are allowed to question and examine. :)
 
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Castaway57

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I'd rather save what time I have answering people with genuine comments or are uplifting others, rather than those that are trolling to bring others down.
Well; don't be shy. We need all the positive posters we can get. :)
 
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Stryder06

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Again I can see the black and white thinking that is prevailent in the SDA. Everyone that speaks up against the SDA is declared an enemy, former members are apparently the bitterest of all enemies...

WOW!

Thankfully Jesus said we should love our enemies, and maybe even try take them seriously...! ;)

Jesus had a very black and white way of thinking. You're either for Him or against Him. Perhaps the main problem with many Christians today is their lack of black and white thinking, which has been replaced with acceptance of every shade of grey. And what does it mean to "love your enemies"? Does that mean you accept what they say or avoid pointing out their faults? Do you simply turn a blind eye to the evil they do in the name of love?
 
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Ahhh yes. The Jesus excuse. well; thats certainly nothing new.

You cant invent your own religion and then blame it on Jesus. Your defiant abuse of the spirit of prophecy shows you definitely would not fall into the category of a "reformer."

"Unless those who can help in are aroused to a sense of their duty, they will not recognize the work of God when the loud cry of the third angel shall be heard. When light goes forth to lighten the earth, INSTEAD OF COMING UP TO THE HELP OF THE LORD, THEY WILL WANT TO BIND ABOUT HIS WORK TO MEET THEIR NARROW IDEAS. Let me tell you that the Lord will work in this last work in a manner very much OUT OF THE COMMON ORDER OF THINGS and in a way that will be CONTRARY TO ANY HUMAN PLANNING. There will be those among us who will always want to control the work of God, to dictate even what movements shall be made when the work goes forward under the direction of the angel who joins the third angel in the message to be given to the world. God will use ways and means by which it will be seen that that He is taking the reins in His own hands. The workers will be surprised by the simple means that He will use to bring about and perfect His work of righteousness." T.M.300.
 
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Castaway57

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"Unless those who can help in are aroused to a sense of their duty, they will not recognize the work of God when the loud cry of the third angel shall be heard. When light goes forth to lighten the earth, INSTEAD OF COMING UP TO THE HELP OF THE LORD, THEY WILL WANT TO BIND ABOUT HIS WORK TO MEET THEIR NARROW IDEAS. Let me tell you that the Lord will work in this last work in a manner very much OUT OF THE COMMON ORDER OF THINGS and in a way that will be CONTRARY TO ANY HUMAN PLANNING. There will be those among us who will always want to control the work of God, to dictate even what movements shall be made when the work goes forward under the direction of the angel who joins the third angel in the message to be given to the world. God will use ways and means by which it will be seen that that He is taking the reins in His own hands. The workers will be surprised by the simple means that He will use to bring about and perfect His work of righteousness." T.M.300.
There are many like you who have appointed themselves as the Church's religious police, who will wrest a quote here and a quote there to make it appear that Ellen White supports their message of heresy and blasphemy. Every poison arrow you launch at me or the church will come back at you in the Lord's time...
Gal_6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
 
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mmksparbud

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Just had to step in and give my 2 cents worth.
In all her writtings, that I have read, she never once said to leave the church and go elswhere. Where are we to go--you? I know she said there would be a shaking--and who is being shaken? It's like the Laodicean's--God did not tell them to leave the church, but to repent. If there is repenting that needs to be done within our leadership, God will point it out to them. It is not our place to topple God's appointed leaders, just as David did not topple Saul, inspite of Sauls obvious failings, and sins and Davids opportunities to do take over--He waited for God to set things right.
There may be failings within the leadership, but the truth is the truth, and God will raise His workers from wherever, within and without the church, as He said He had others who are not of this fold--However, at some point, it will be one God, one truth that will come into the fold. If you feel you are one of His sheep then you better be sure you are following His voice and not the voice of an impersonater. If you feel we are treating you as an enemy, then you need to love us. Have you found a better church to follow, have you found a better truth? Have you a leader that you feel is of God as opposed to ours?? Have you been shaken out?--Then I suggest you get down on your knees and ask God to lead you back where you belong. He has not left you, but you have wondered off by listening to the bleatings of other strayed sheep. God bless you--I'll shut up now.
 
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Castaway57

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Just had to step in and give my 2 cents worth.
In all her writtings, that I have read, she never once said to leave the church and go elswhere. Where are we to go--you? I know she said there would be a shaking--and who is being shaken? It's like the Laodicean's--God did not tell them to leave the church, but to repent. If there is repenting that needs to be done within our leadership, God will point it out to them. It is not our place to topple God's appointed leaders, just as David did not topple Saul, inspite of Sauls obvious failings, and sins and Davids opportunities to do take over--He waited for God to set things right.
There may be failings within the leadership, but the truth is the truth, and God will raise His workers from wherever, within and without the church, as He said He had others who are not of this fold--However, at some point, it will be one God, one truth that will come into the fold. If you feel you are one of His sheep then you better be sure you are following His voice and not the voice of an impersonater. If you feel we are treating you as an enemy, then you need to love us. Have you found a better church to follow, have you found a better truth? Have you a leader that you feel is of God as opposed to ours?? Have you been shaken out?--Then I suggest you get down on your knees and ask God to lead you back where you belong. He has not left you, but you have wondered off by listening to the bleatings of other strayed sheep. God bless you--I'll shut up now.
I was wishing your post was longer - just sayin. :)
 
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Just had to step in and give my 2 cents worth.
In all her writtings, that I have read, she never once said to leave the church and go elswhere. Where are we to go--you? I know she said there would be a shaking--and who is being shaken? It's like the Laodicean's--God did not tell them to leave the church, but to repent. If there is repenting that needs to be done within our leadership, God will point it out to them. It is not our place to topple God's appointed leaders, just as David did not topple Saul, inspite of Sauls obvious failings, and sins and Davids opportunities to do take over--He waited for God to set things right.
There may be failings within the leadership, but the truth is the truth, and God will raise His workers from wherever, within and without the church, as He said He had others who are not of this fold--However, at some point, it will be one God, one truth that will come into the fold. If you feel you are one of His sheep then you better be sure you are following His voice and not the voice of an impersonater. If you feel we are treating you as an enemy, then you need to love us. Have you found a better church to follow, have you found a better truth? Have you a leader that you feel is of God as opposed to ours?? Have you been shaken out?--Then I suggest you get down on your knees and ask God to lead you back where you belong. He has not left you, but you have wondered off by listening to the bleatings of other strayed sheep. God bless you--I'll shut up now.

Brother, is your post addressed to me?

If you are talking to me, you need to show the readers where, in any of the threads that I have started, or anywhere where I have posted, that I have or am calling people out of the church. I invite you to go to my website, as I have invited Castaway, hidden-treasures.ca, and to read my booklets. The third one, THAT WHICH HAS BEEN WILL BE, is about Matt.22. In that booklet I take the position that we are now living in the time of the second call of the parable, not the time to call people out of the church.

Only if the "organized work" refuse to accept the light proclaimed during the second and last call to the church (according to the parable) and persecute the bearers of that message will the message to come out be present truth. The parable shows that there is a time of probation for the professed church before the close of human probation.

This is what happened to the Jewish church. There was the first call of the parable before the crucifixion, which was rejected. See Christ's Object Lessons,309. After the crucifixion came the second call of the parable. It began at Pentecost. This second call to the Jewish nation was not only rejected but the bearers of the message were persecuted. Many were put into prison and some were killed. At the stoning of Stephen the church sealed her rejection of God's mercy and the bearers of the message turned to the Gentiles. The call to the Gentiles is represented by the third call of the parable. See Christ's Object Lessons,308, bottom of the page.

In the book The Great Controversy, p.428, Mrs. White makes a reference to Matt.22 at the time of 1844. When Jesus entered the Most Holy Place the parable began its final fulfillment. At that time the marriage was not consummated and the church fell into the Laodicean condition. 1888 was the first call of the parable and, as predicted in the parable, the light was resisted. See 1 S.M.234,235.

Then came the crucifixion of the messages that God had entrusted to us as a people. This took place in the 1950s at the time of the SDA/Evangelical conferences, 18 of them, during which the pillars of our faith were compromised by the then leading brethren in the hope that we would be recognized as a Christian denomination and no longer categorized as an anti-christian cult! This is what happened and the Evangelical leaders accepted the extended hand of fellowship and then publicly announced that we were now members of the body of Christ!

But following this crucifixion is the second and last call of the parable to the professed people of God. We are living in the time of that call. It is not a message of condemnation or to come out of the church anymore than the second call to the Jewish church was, but it is the offer of pardon for having rejected the light sent to us from Heaven between 1888 and 1903 and for having crucified the messages between 1955 and 1957. The reception of this message would bring a revival and a reformation (Gospel Order)

If this offer of pardon through the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour is despised and rejected and the bearers of that message persecuted, character assassinated, then the Lord will have no choice but to send the bearers of this last message of mercy to the world and it will swell into a loud cry and when the mission of the Gospel is completed, the judgment (of the living) will accomplish the final separation between the wheat and the tares, between the wise and the foolish, between the good and the evil, and their destiny will be forever fixed.

sky
 
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mmksparbud

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The Jews were rejected as a Nation--not as individuals. Noone is rejected who comes to Christ. And now, that Nation, once rejected, is a nation again, and there are many Christian Jews there, and you can read their whole history since 1948 and you can not tell me that God has not blessed them as a nation again! It is only through the power of God that a tiny speck on the map, hated by the whole world, esp by all around them, sent to the ovens by the millions, can still be on the map! God will do what He will do. We must love Him above all and each other also, keep His commandments and preach His message of love and repentance. To spend our time with in-fighting does not honor Him.
And that's Sister, brother.
 
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Castaway57

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The Jews were rejected as a Nation--not as individuals. Noone is rejected who comes to Christ. And now, that Nation, once rejected, is a nation again, and there are many Christian Jews there, and you can read their whole history since 1948 and you can not tell me that God has not blessed them as a nation again! It is only through the power of God that a tiny speck on the map, hated by the whole world, esp by all around them, sent to the ovens by the millions, can still be on the map! God will do what He will do. We must love Him above all and each other also, keep His commandments and preach His message of love and repentance. To spend our time with in-fighting does not honor Him.
And that's Sister, brother.
AMEN!
 
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JohnMarsten

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Jesus had a very black and white way of thinking. You're either for Him or against Him. Perhaps the main problem with many Christians today is their lack of black and white thinking, which has been replaced with acceptance of every shade of grey. And what does it mean to "love your enemies"? Does that mean you accept what they say or avoid pointing out their faults? Do you simply turn a blind eye to the evil they do in the name of love?

not necessarily!

If Jesus was a black and white thinker... He would have let the prostitute be put to death... right?
 
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Castaway57

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not necessarily!

If Jesus was a black and white thinker... He would have let the prostitute be put to death... right?
On the one hand stryder06 had a good point, Jesus did say those words. And He did say things like if you break one law, then you broke them all. But I think Jesus was simply so gifted that he could meet each situation as the need demanded; for it is His eternal goal to "save to the uttermost."

This is what He said:
"Luk_9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."
So if a person is not "for" Jesus, then the black & white thinking would come into effect. However, the text itself is not so black and white for Jesus is seeking to include those who are "not one of us," as a part of His kingdom. :)
 
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