Former Biden diplomat says there’s ‘no question’ that ‘free Palestine’ slogan has become a call for violence

[JosephZ]

I do not live there. If I did I wouldn't be alive to have this conversation with you.

Or did you not know apostasy is actual death in Palestine under Hamas?

Apostasy is not punishable by death in Palestine, even in Gaza where Hamas is in control.

 

[Hazelelponi]

" The Jewish people and the state of Isrel are not the same thing.

I think since my perspective on the answer to the question "Who's a Jew?" And "what is Israel" diverges significantly from some more vocal modern Christians, then my view on "what is antisemitic" also is less clear.

However, in secular society I will offer that the definition used in the wider society is that to be "Semitic" applies to those people practicing some form of old covenant Judaism -the religion - or are ethnically Hebrew (specificaly from a certain tribe of Hebrews) or simply live in the modern nation state of Israel even if they are an Israeli Arabs, and who believe in Israels right to exist as a self determining modern nation state.

Thereby to be "anti" semitic appears to be used in the sense of opposing those in any of the three above main categories of "semite" in ways more harmful to their survival, usually because of some kind of hatred.

I believe Christians are Jews Biblically speaking, and the Israel of Scripture is decidedly not a modern nationstate - so I had to become more clear on definitions.

I accept however, that we have to use modern definitions even when they are clearly a bit nonsensical and not very accurate because it's all people understand - Its just the label it got.

 

[BCP1928]

I think since my perspective on the answer to the question "Who's a Jew?" diverges significantly from some more vocal modern Christians, then my view on "what is antisemitic" also is less clear.

However, in secular society I will offer that the definition used in the wider society is that to be "Semitic" applies to those people practicing some form of old covenant Judaism -the religion - or are ethnically Hebrew (specificaly from a certain tribe of Hebrews) or simply live in the modern nation state of Israel even if they are an Israeli Arabs, and who believe in Israels right to exist as a self determining modern nation state.

Thereby to be "anti" semitic appears to be used in the sense of opposing those in any of the three above main categories of "semite" in ways more harmful to their survival, usually because of some kind of hatred.

I believe Christians are Jews Biblically speaking, so you have to become more clear on definitions. I accept however, that we have to use modern definitions even when they are clearly a bit nonsensical and not very accurate because it's all people understand.Its just the label it got.

I think that what it boils down to for Christians in this country is not "who's a Jew" but whether or not they see the present state of Israel as a fulfillment of God's promise. If Israel really is the promised land then naturally any criticism of it would extend to the Jewish people as a whole and be antisemitic.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I think that what it boils down to for Christians in this country is not "who's a Jew" but whether or not they see the present state of Israel as a fulfillment of God's promise. If Israel really is the promised land then naturally any criticism of it would extend to the Jewish people as a whole and be antisemitic.

In America, dispensationalism—an eschatological view I reject—drives some religious support for Israel on the surface, but it’s hardly the majority opinion amongst Christians, just the more vocal because it sells books. (Anything dramatic sells books)

It’s an eschatological perspective that’s perhaps misguided, not grounded in Scripture but even those seeing eschatological significance in the modern nation state wouldn’t back Israel if it were unjustly attacking a peaceful population

And no, it's not attacking a peaceful population when a people are lobbing rockets at you or whatever and so you retaliate with military force to stop the attackers. That's just called war. A just war at that.

So there's never going to be more than just a fringe who think Israel, the greater military power, should concede loss in a war they have won the second they start to fight it seriously.

Im not rooting for Hamas to win, because no Palestinian has a future if they do, much less the Israeli's. I would rather have peace through strength and the end of Hamas.

 

[Hans Blaster]

However, in secular society I will offer that the definition used in the wider society is that to be "Semitic" applies to those people practicing some form of old covenant Judaism -the religion - or are ethnically Hebrew (specificaly from a certain tribe of Hebrews) or simply live in the modern nation state of Israel even if they are an Israeli Arabs, and who believe in Israels right to exist as a self determining modern nation state.

Semitic is the name of a language group, not a people. We need a better word for bigotry against or hatred towards Jewish people.

 

[trophy33]

It astonishes me that you never find a single issue with the Arab community or Palestinians but blame everything on Israel.

Do you understand why some people view that as anti-Semitism?

No. And I do not even understand your reasoning. I said both sides must work on peace and that basically none of these sides wants a two-state solution, at least not the one advantageous for both sides.

And because American evangelical Christians seem to blindly side with Israel no matter what evil it does, I balance it out by pointing the issues out, which seems to astonish you.

If we can agree that beating or raping somebody to submission is morally not OK, why do we tolerate it when it is among nations? What Israel has been doing in Gaza is horrible and it must stop "NOW" as Trump likes to formulate his online comments.

It is in Israel's best interest to stop it, because the international outrage and creating even more radicals with each bomb, death and destroyed house is not making his future (and any two-state solution) easier. Driving people back and forth like cattle and even obstructing humanitarian aid is not something we should either support or be called anti-Semites.

 

[trophy33]

What steps do you believe Israel, Palestinian authorities, Arab nations, the United States, and the rest of the international community should take to achieve lasting peace in the Middle East?

I cannot think of any. And it is not surprising, because nobody could think of any for about 100 years now.

All the countries and nations there would need to somehow become culturally, religiously, politically and ethnically compatible. With similar level of economy and military. And then strongly cooperate regarding business and movement of people, like for example the EU.

But nobody knows how to do it practically. Because the modern state of Israel was created there and people transplanted there without any historical development and without any compatibility with the culture or religion there. And different Islamic denominations in the region, which do not like each other at all, do not make things easier.

 

[BCP1928]

In America, dispensationalism—an eschatological view I reject—drives some religious support for Israel on the surface, but it’s hardly the majority opinion amongst Christians, just the more vocal because it sells books. (Anything dramatic sells books)

It’s an eschatological perspective that’s perhaps misguided, not grounded in Scripture but even those seeing eschatological significance in the modern nation state wouldn’t back Israel if it were unjustly attacking a peaceful population

And no, it's not attacking a peaceful population when a people are lobbing rockets at you or whatever and so you retaliate with military force to stop the attackers. That's just called war. A just war at that.

So there's never going to be more than just a fringe who think Israel, the greater military power, should concede loss in a war they have won the second they start to fight it seriously.

Im not rooting for Hamas to win, because no Palestinian has a future if they do, much less the Israeli's. I would rather have peace through strength and the end of Hamas.

It's not that they are attacking, but how they are attacking that's the issue. You don't contribute much to the situation by insinuating that the only alternative to the way they are conducting the war is to surrender.

 

[Hazelelponi]

It's not that they are attacking, but how they are attacking that's the issue. You don't contribute much to the situation by insinuating that the only alternative to the way they are conducting the war is to surrender.

It's not that Hamas is attacking Israel, it's how they are attacking Israel. They aren't waging a military to military war on a battlefield with some honor and moral ethic, no. They are waging a war against unarmed civilians, and then use their own people as human shields.

Israel as a nation-state is required under God to stop attacks against her citizens. If Hamas fills up an area with children and then start lobbing rockets at Israel from the same arena knowing Israel will be retaliating to defend her people (a main responsibility - and this before God - of government is to defend their citizens from attack) instead of engaging military to military then the civilian deaths are on them.

We saw on Oct 7 why Israel can't let their guard down from the duty to protect her citizens even a minute.there weren't only Jews who were killed that day.

It really is to Israel to actually stop HAMAS and then we will figure out how to help these people who are all broken from so much war and hate that this is what they have become.

Did you know 40% of Palestinian women have either a Bachelors ot Masters degree? They don't use it, few women work, only about 6 percent which is about 10 x fewer women in the workforce than the US, even though they have a higher percentage than the US of degreed women.

As a people they have potential, but they'll never have a future manufacturing Keffiyeh's and exporting terror to college campuses worldwide. This isn't life for anyone.

The Palestinians should negotiate terms of surrender, look forward to build a future in peace. They have destroyed enough and it's about time it's permanently ended in the cause of peace. It's Israel's responsibility to stop HAMAS if the Palestinians cannot do so themselves.

We can't go backwards, we can only go forward.

 

[BCP1928]

It's not that Hamas is attacking Israel, it's how they are attacking Israel. They aren't waging a military to military war on a battlefield with some honor and moral ethic, no. They are waging a war against civilians, and then use their own people as human shields.

Who's rule is that? That they can only fight with regular armies?

Israel as a nation-state is required under God to stop attacks against her citizens. If Hamas fills up an area with children and then start lobbing rockets at Israel from the same arena knowing Israel will be retaliating to defend her people (a main responsibility - and this before God - of government is to defend their citizens from attack)

What has God got to do with it?

instead of engaging military to military then the civilian deaths are on them.

So if Israel kills women and children and drives the west from their homes, it's OK because HAMAS isn't fighting fair?

We saw on Oct 7 why Israel can't let their guard down from the duty to protect her citizens even a minute.there weren't only Jews who were killed that day.

It really is to Israel to actually stop HAMAS and then we will figure out how to help these people who are all broken from so much war and hate that this is what they have become.

Did you know 40% of Palestinian women have either a Bachelors ot Masters degree? They don't use it, few women work, only about 6 percent which is about 10 x fewer women in the workforce than the US, even though they have a higher percentage than the US of degreed women.

What does that have to do with anything?

As a people they have potential, but they'll nevee have a future manufacturing Keffiyeh's and exporting terror to college campuses worldwide. This isn't life for anyone.

The Palestinians should negotiate terms of surrender, look forward to build a future in peace.

How gracious of you to dispose of their fate for them.

 

[DaisyDay]

I do not live there. If I did I wouldn't be alive to have this conversation with you.

Are you from there? Do you know anyone from there?

Or did you not know apostasy is actual death in Palestine under Hamas?

That's not actually true. Palestinian Basic Law allows freedom of religion.

Should I say well I don't live there so it's okay there's no freedom in Palestine or a future for anyone there so long as Hamas remains?

Right now there is mass destruction and starvation in Palestine.

I have as much say as anyone, and my say at this point should matter more than a terrorist who doesn't value life.

Gazan children are not terrorists - do their lives matter as much as yours does?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Who's rule is that? That they can only fight with regular armies?

Whose rule is that — that they can only fight with regular armies?"

I know I may sound a bit judgmental or imbalanced. I am still new in the faith, but having been born again, I now feel a moral clarity I never had before. My flesh can still be stubborn — I am just a human being in the end — but I am doing my best to think and speak morally, even if those thoughts are sometimes expressed through tears.

That said — if you're going to call this kind of warfare, which involves murdering unarmed civilians going about their day, a "legitimate" form of war (sarcasm intended), then I’m the Easter Bunny.

It is war, yes — but of a type the modern world has not often seen. It’s not just war. It is bloodshed and cold-blooded murder, a century on. The Taliban, for all their horrific tactics — including the use of human shields, which is a war crime — did in fact fight the U.S. military directly in Afghanistan. They didn’t gain control of the country merely by slaughtering civilians. In fact, they faced and resisted a superior military force. I can at least acknowledge that.

Hamas, armed similarly to the Taliban, refuses to engage the Israeli military in a direct manner. Instead, they’ve moved from suicide bombings to the indiscriminate slaughter of unarmed civilians — many of whom were peace advocates, and not even all Jewish.

While I ultimately view this issue through a political lens, consistent with my traditional Reformed amillennial eschatology and Christocentric worldview, my moral compass is still engaged. Both sides are composed of fallen humanity, and in any war, questionable actions will occur because war is waged by the flesh — and no participant here is regenerate. Only Christ can redeem. Only He can save.

To understand where I’m coming from ethically, we need to consider what Jesus said nearly 2,000 years ago. He told Jewish zealots to submit peacefully to Roman rule. That zealot faction acted much like Hamas does today — a smaller, weaker force that used guerrilla tactics and murder. Jesus urged peaceful submission, not rebellion. The Roman occupation had been ongoing for roughly 100 years by the time of Christ's ministry. This historical and theological context gives us an ethical framework we can apply situationally.

---

Two things stand out to me from Jesus’ teaching:

1. Christ is not pro-generational war, even when His people are mistreated.
2. Peace is better than war, even when submission may come at personal cost.

---

Am I wrong in my ethics here? I don't believe so.

I believe Christ came to redeem souls, not to engage in nation-building. Yet I can’t help but wonder — why was that the fullness of time? Why the parallel between the Roman world and ours? Could it be that God was also equipping us with a situational ethic as well as a redemptive-historical one?

For me, this all adds up to a moral principle that I apply broadly:

1.) Generational war is evil.​

Sometimes war happens. But when wars are lost, it's better to submit and preserve what remains than to wage endless destruction. Let the people live and rebuild.

For example, I supported the withdrawal from Afghanistan. President Biden’s execution of it was tragic and mismanaged, but leaving was necessary. At some point, we must stop fighting. Generational war is unsustainable.

The Palestine situation is different from Afghanistan, but we’re at a similar moment: it is time to demand Hamas surrender and negotiate a peaceful future.

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"What has God got to do with it?"

Everything.

God is sovereign over all things — that’s a fact we agree on. Christ is my Sovereign, so I speak of Him. It’s just how I process the world.

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"So if Israel kills women and children and drives people from their homes, it’s okay because Hamas isn’t fighting fair?"

No, that’s not what I’m saying.

Israel is not specifically targeting civilians. Their threat is real, not imagined. When your enemy is embedded in civilian infrastructure, what are your options? Do you allow yourself to be attacked endlessly?

You seem to want to dictate the "how" of Israel’s response — but the current methods, while far from perfect, are also driven by the complexity of urban warfare.

---

On Moral Responsibility and Civilian Culpability:


If you're going to fight a war, people will die. That’s the tragic reality. But I struggle to feel the same level of sympathy when Hamas also was voted into power by a willing population supporting it. Hamas doesn’t hide its goals — yet they are still supported.

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"How gracious of you to dispose of their fate for them."

I don’t claim to have that authority. No one on this earth has to listen to me. I’m simply stating my perspective, trying to take the most ethical stand I can.

When people want to talk about building peace — rebuilding homes, reestablishing communities, and pursuing reconciliation — I’m eager to participate. But if all we’re doing is criticizing Israel for fighting a war against terrorists who use civilians as shields, while ignoring the moral weight of Hamas' actions, then we’re not having an honest conversation. That’s not worthy of serious discussion.

---

Final Thought:

When one side makes unreasonable demands and commits acts of barbarism, and the other is defending its own existence, there’s no peace to be made until the terrorism ends. I’m not fighting a war — I’m trying to reason for peace.

But if all we're doing is bringing that war online, without any new parameters for peace, it's just more ideological missile-throwing. And that’s not a war worth continuing either.