Forgivness & Confession

[rugerfann]

False.
You can repent with the intention of never committing that sin again.
But, since we are sinful humans, that doesn't always happen.

You fall off the horse, you get back on. You fall off again, you get back on again - you don't want to just lay in the mud saying it doesnt matter if you get up again...

This is the biblical interpetating of repent.It means to never do again!

 

[ExOrienteLux]

This is the biblical interpetating of repent.It means to never do again!

Actually, 'repentance' in Greek is metanoia, which literally translates to "change of mind".

Just thought you might want to know...

+IC XC NIKA+
Phillip

 

[rugerfann]

Try this on for size:



If one looks beyond the simple historical narrative that occurs in this passage from the Gospels, there is a clear reference to Baptism and Confession. Our Lord tells St. Peter that if one is not washed by Him (ie, undergoes Baptism), then one has no part in Him. But, note that Our Lord does not stop there. He says that those who are clean (those who have been Baptised) do not need to wash, except for the feet.

In the ancient world, the feet were always the filthiest parts of the body, since they walked through dust, grime and excrement daily. It was common courtesy and simple hygeine for one to either wash one's own feet or have them washed by a servant before entering another's house or a place of worship. How does this apply to us, though?

As believers, we who have been washed in the waters of Baptism have been cleansed from all previous sins and from the stain of the world which we were born into. However, we still walk through the filth and ordure of sin every day, and though we are clean, we still need to cleanse our souls of the sins which we daily, hourly, and minutely commit, especially before we draw nigh unto the Lord in worship.

Through the words of Christ to His Apostles granting them the authority to forgive sins as Christ's emissaries on earth, which power was passed to their sucessors, even to the present day, we are given the opportunity to have our feet washed by the Saviour Himself, as those same Apostles were. One would have to be a fool not to avail himself of this opportunity at every possible time.

Call me an Origenist, but I consistently see deeper, spiritual meanings behind the obvious meaning in a text.

+IC XC NIKA+
Phillip.

I see your point!

But you need to also understand.Jesus Forgave ALL you sins at the cross,not just some of them.

 

[rugerfann]

Actually, 'repentance' in Greek is metanoia, which literally translates to "change of mind".

Just thought you might want to know...

+IC XC NIKA+
Phillip

Correct,and has one changed his mind if he does it again?I whould say No!

 

[ExOrienteLux]

But you need to also understand.Jesus Forgave ALL you sins at the cross,not just some of them.

Then why does He say that those who are clean need only to wash their feet? Seems to be a clear reference to continued confession to me...

+IC XC NIKA+
Phillip.

 

[ExOrienteLux]

Correct,and has one changed his mind if he does it again?I whould say No!

Here's a hypothetical situation for you:

Say some time you're speeding down the highway, and the Highway Patrol pulls you over and gives you a ticket. However, the judge decides to be merciful and not charge you the fine, for no reason that you can fathom. After you hear the verdict, you decide to not speed again. However, one day when you're driving, you happen to glance at your speedometer and see that you're going about five miles per hour over the speed limit. Against your best intentions and better judgement, you sped again.

What's this do to your assertions?

+IC XC NIKA+
Phillip.

 

[Dust and Ashes]

Try this on for size:
If one looks beyond the simple historical narrative that occurs in this passage from the Gospels, there is a clear reference to Baptism and Confession. Our Lord tells St. Peter that if one is not washed by Him (ie, undergoes Baptism), then one has no part in Him. But, note that Our Lord does not stop there. He says that those who are clean (those who have been Baptised) do not need to wash, except for the feet.

In the ancient world, the feet were always the filthiest parts of the body, since they walked through dust, grime and excrement daily. It was common courtesy and simple hygeine for one to either wash one's own feet or have them washed by a servant before entering another's house or a place of worship. How does this apply to us, though?

As believers, we who have been washed in the waters of Baptism have been cleansed from all previous sins and from the stain of the world which we were born into. However, we still walk through the filth and ordure of sin every day, and though we are clean, we still need to cleanse our souls of the sins which we daily, hourly, and minutely commit, especially before we draw nigh unto the Lord in worship.

Through the words of Christ to His Apostles granting them the authority to forgive sins as Christ's emissaries on earth, which power was passed to their sucessors, even to the present day, we are given the opportunity to have our feet washed by the Saviour Himself, as those same Apostles were. One would have to be a fool not to avail himself of this opportunity at every possible time.

Call me an Origenist, but I consistently see deeper, spiritual meanings behind the obvious meaning in a text.

+IC XC NIKA+
Phillip.

What a simple yet amazingly beautiful lesson. I had never thought about it that way. Thank you for that, you've made my day.

 

[filosofer]

This is the biblical interpetating of repent.It means to never do again!

You might want to do an extended study of SHUV (in Hebrew) and METANOEW (in Greek) before you make such a claim. The second sentence is not inherent in the word root(s) themselves. That kind of claim is dependent on the verb form and the context not the word itself.

 

[rugerfann]

Here's a hypothetical situation for you:

Say some time you're speeding down the highway, and the Highway Patrol pulls you over and gives you a ticket. However, the judge decides to be merciful and not charge you the fine, for no reason that you can fathom. After you hear the verdict, you decide to not speed again. However, one day when you're driving, you happen to glance at your speedometer and see that you're going about five miles per hour over the speed limit. Against your best intentions and better judgement, you sped again.

What's this do to your assertions?

+IC XC NIKA+
Phillip.

Then I didn't truely repent.One can only repent once!

 

[rugerfann]

Try this on for size:



If one looks beyond the simple historical narrative that occurs in this passage from the Gospels, there is a clear reference to Baptism and Confession. Our Lord tells St. Peter that if one is not washed by Him (ie, undergoes Baptism), then one has no part in Him. But, note that Our Lord does not stop there. He says that those who are clean (those who have been Baptised) do not need to wash, except for the feet.

In the ancient world, the feet were always the filthiest parts of the body, since they walked through dust, grime and excrement daily. It was common courtesy and simple hygeine for one to either wash one's own feet or have them washed by a servant before entering another's house or a place of worship. How does this apply to us, though?

As believers, we who have been washed in the waters of Baptism have been cleansed from all previous sins and from the stain of the world which we were born into. However, we still walk through the filth and ordure of sin every day, and though we are clean, we still need to cleanse our souls of the sins which we daily, hourly, and minutely commit, especially before we draw nigh unto the Lord in worship.

Through the words of Christ to His Apostles granting them the authority to forgive sins as Christ's emissaries on earth, which power was passed to their sucessors, even to the present day, we are given the opportunity to have our feet washed by the Saviour Himself, as those same Apostles were. One would have to be a fool not to avail himself of this opportunity at every possible time.

Call me an Origenist, but I consistently see deeper, spiritual meanings behind the obvious meaning in a text.

+IC XC NIKA+
Phillip.

Hebrews 9:22 "Without The shedding of BLOOD The is No forgivness"

Nope,it whould take shedding of Blood!

 

[Archangel]

Thanks to everyone for their comments, please continue to discuss this, it is extremly helpful thank you.

My own personal opinion is that Jesus forgave all sins when he died on the cross, and that personal confession to God is actually more of a disciple than a necessity. We are told to confess our sins to one and other. By recodnising our sins and confessing them and being sorry we can grow up spiritually and become the Holy Priesthood we are supposed to be.

I do not think daily confession of sins brings forgivenss, but rather that repentance and the gift of salvation brings eternal forgivness. Confession shows us that we are guilty of sin, and does remind us to thank Jesus for this gift.

About cleaning the disciples feet:

We can look at it spiritually like this. The Christian has been cleaned all over..he has been bathed and is no longer dirty. But we must still wash our feet so that, by faith, we can haev our conscience cleansed off fresh guilt.

 

[prodromos]

It's important to remember this verse he is talking about a non-christian.No Christian whould ever believe that he had no sin.

It doesn't only place it says that is in 1 John 1:9 and if you read 1:8 he is talking to unbelievers.

Except 1 john 1:9 which is not talking to christians!

I find these claims of yours astounding, especially the last one. Everything in the New Testament was written to and for Christians.

 

[katherine2001]

Then I didn't truely repent.One can only repent once!

Let me get this straight. Are you saying that you are sinless?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

From: The Pearl by Michael Whelton

WHAT DOES THE ORTHODOX CHURCH TEACH REGARDING GUARANTEED SALVATION?
The Orthodox Church’s objection to the doctrine of guaranteed salvation is firmly based in Scripture and Tradition, which radically oppose it. The New Testament, while preaching the mercy and love of God and His desire for the salvation of all, is also full of warnings to those who might presume His mercy and grow lax in their faith, as St. Paul warns the Philippians: “Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation” (Philippians 2:12). This great apostle even tells the Corinthians that the salvation he constantly preaches could be lost for himself: “But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection, lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway” (1 Cor 9:27).

To those who believe that a “born again” experience and the acceptance of Christ as their “personal Savior” assures them of salvation, Christ declares, “Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matt 7:21). St. Paul solemnly reminds them: “For we must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the proper things of the body, according as he hath done, whether it be good or evil” (2 Cor 2:10).

Our one single act of faith will not shield the deeds and acts of a lifetime, as God “will render to every man according to his works” (Ram 2:6). For those Christians living devout lives, St. Paul warns them to continue in their lives of sanctity, lest they lose their salvation. “See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off’ (Rom 11:22).

Statements such as these completely undercut the doctrine of assured salvation, a doctrine almost unknown for the first 1,500 years until the Protestant Revolt. In keeping with the teaching of the New Testament and the Patristic Tradition, the Orthodox Church has constantly taught that salvation is a lifelong process where Christians are “saved daily through repentance and the yielding of their mind, heart and will to God.” St. Paul likened it to a race for an “incorruptible crown” where “ look forward to their glorification with Jesus at the Second Coming” (1 Cor 9:25).

WHAT DOES THE ORTHODOX CHURCH TEACH REGARDING SALVTION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH?

The Orthodox Church has always confronted the world as the Church of Jesus Christ. Christ did not found many churches—He only founded one. She is the Church of the Apostles and Martyrs and of the Seven Ecumenical Councils that has an unbroken line back to the apostles. This claim flows from her sense of unity with God and God’s bond with His Church. As the Orthodox theologian Alexis Khomiakov explains it in his essay, “The Church is one. Its unity follows of necessity from the unity of God.”

Since God and His Church cannot be separated, the Orthodox Church teaches that there is no salvation outside the Church. However, this does not mean that all those souls outside the Church are damned, any more than all those souls within the Church are saved. As Augustine \observed, “How many sheep there are without, how many wolves within!” God does not demand the impossible; those people who genuinely try to obey their consciences and/or have been denied the knowledge that Christ is the Savior of mankind may merit eternal salvation. Plus, there are people who are not visibly members of the Church but whose membership is known only to God. However, if anyone is saved, he must, in some sense, be a member of the Church, but in what sense, it is not always possible to say.

Alexis Khomiakov explains the Orthodox position very succinctly:

Inasmuch as the earthly and visible Church is not the fullness and completeness of the whole Church which the Lord has appointed to appear at the final judgment of all creation, she acts and knows only within her own limits; and . . . does not judge the rest of mankind, and only looks upon those as excluded, that is to say, not belonging to her, who exclude themselves. The rest of mankind, whether alien from the Church, or united to her by ties which God has not willed to reveal to her, she leaves to the judgment of the great day.

Forgive me...

 

[SPALATIN]

Hi!

Once you become a Christian you are sealed with the Holy Spirit [Eph 1]

The second you give your life to Jesus are all of your past present and future sins forgiven there and then on the spot? Or do we have to continue to confess our sins in order for them to be forgiven?

If we have to confess our sins in order for them to be forgiven then can a person enter heaven with unforgiven sins because they have never confessed them?

The overal question is, Does God forgive a Christian who doesn't/forgets to confess their sins?

Having viewed a few of the responses after this original post I think there is a lot of error being taught in protestant churches regarding what sins are forgiven when are regenerated through Baptism. We are forgiven for past and present sins, but not future sins. We can't be forgiven for what he haven't done yet. Not only that but the Holy Spirit can enable us to resist temptation and flee from it. On the other hand if we rely only on our own will and power we have the ability to reject this gift of Grace bought for us with Jesus blood.

The verses in 1 John 1:8-9 speak the truth of our condition.

 

[rugerfann]

I find these claims of yours astounding, especially the last one. Everything in the New Testament was written to and for Christians.

Nope,1 John was written to the church that had gnostics in it.

1 John 1:8"If we say we have no sin,we decieve ourslves,and the Truth is not in us."

2 John 1:2 "For the Truths sake,which dwelleth in us,and shall be with us forever."

One says the truth isn't in you=Not a christian

One says the Truth is in bodly=Christian

You need to understand unbelievers infiltrated the Church then,and some the new testament was to point out there errors.The Wheat grows along with the tears.

 

[rugerfann]

Let me get this straight. Are you saying that you are sinless?

?Nope

What I am saying is true repentance is never doing it again.If you change yer mind about robbing a Bank and you rob it again the next day,have you truely repented?Nope,you lied and decieved your self is all you did,You didn't repent.

 

[rugerfann]

From: The Pearl by Michael Whelton

WHAT DOES THE ORTHODOX CHURCH TEACH REGARDING GUARANTEED SALVATION?
The Orthodox Church’s objection to the doctrine of guaranteed salvation is firmly based in Scripture and Tradition, which radically oppose it. The New Testament, while preaching the mercy and love of God and His desire for the salvation of all, is also full of warnings to those who might presume His mercy and grow lax in their faith, as St. Paul warns the Philippians: “Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation” (Philippians 2:12). This great apostle even tells the Corinthians that the salvation he constantly preaches could be lost for himself: “But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection, lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway” (1 Cor 9:27).

To those who believe that a “born again” experience and the acceptance of Christ as their “personal Savior” assures them of salvation, Christ declares, “Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matt 7:21). St. Paul solemnly reminds them: “For we must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the proper things of the body, according as he hath done, whether it be good or evil” (2 Cor 2:10).

Our one single act of faith will not shield the deeds and acts of a lifetime, as God “will render to every man according to his works” (Ram 2:6). For those Christians living devout lives, St. Paul warns them to continue in their lives of sanctity, lest they lose their salvation. “See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off’ (Rom 11:22).

Statements such as these completely undercut the doctrine of assured salvation, a doctrine almost unknown for the first 1,500 years until the Protestant Revolt. In keeping with the teaching of the New Testament and the Patristic Tradition, the Orthodox Church has constantly taught that salvation is a lifelong process where Christians are “saved daily through repentance and the yielding of their mind, heart and will to God.” St. Paul likened it to a race for an “incorruptible crown” where “ look forward to their glorification with Jesus at the Second Coming” (1 Cor 9:25).

WHAT DOES THE ORTHODOX CHURCH TEACH REGARDING SALVTION OUTSIDE THE CHURCH?

The Orthodox Church has always confronted the world as the Church of Jesus Christ. Christ did not found many churches—He only founded one. She is the Church of the Apostles and Martyrs and of the Seven Ecumenical Councils that has an unbroken line back to the apostles. This claim flows from her sense of unity with God and God’s bond with His Church. As the Orthodox theologian Alexis Khomiakov explains it in his essay, “The Church is one. Its unity follows of necessity from the unity of God.”

Since God and His Church cannot be separated, the Orthodox Church teaches that there is no salvation outside the Church. However, this does not mean that all those souls outside the Church are damned, any more than all those souls within the Church are saved. As Augustine \observed, “How many sheep there are without, how many wolves within!” God does not demand the impossible; those people who genuinely try to obey their consciences and/or have been denied the knowledge that Christ is the Savior of mankind may merit eternal salvation. Plus, there are people who are not visibly members of the Church but whose membership is known only to God. However, if anyone is saved, he must, in some sense, be a member of the Church, but in what sense, it is not always possible to say.

Alexis Khomiakov explains the Orthodox position very succinctly:

Inasmuch as the earthly and visible Church is not the fullness and completeness of the whole Church which the Lord has appointed to appear at the final judgment of all creation, she acts and knows only within her own limits; and . . . does not judge the rest of mankind, and only looks upon those as excluded, that is to say, not belonging to her, who exclude themselves. The rest of mankind, whether alien from the Church, or united to her by ties which God has not willed to reveal to her, she leaves to the judgment of the great day.

Forgive me...

There premise is off and that why the don't believe in assured salvation.It's clear to me the think that salvation is geting your sins forgiven,and that Christ didn't forgive all sin at the cross!They also misunderstand what the Work of god is.

IT ISN"T,IT NEVER WILL BE

SALVATION IS LIFE!

 

[rugerfann]

Having viewed a few of the responses after this original post I think there is a lot of error being taught in protestant churches regarding what sins are forgiven when are regenerated through Baptism. We are forgiven for past and present sins, but not future sins. We can't be forgiven for what he haven't done yet. Not only that but the Holy Spirit can enable us to resist temptation and flee from it. On the other hand if we rely only on our own will and power we have the ability to reject this gift of Grace bought for us with Jesus blood.

The verses in 1 John 1:8-9 speak the truth of our condition.

If christ didn't take all yous sins away ,you are doomed!Believe what you wish,but the fact is he took them ALL.Man's pride doesnt want Christ to take them all,becuase then he can do something in his salvation.

 

[PaladinValer]

Nope,its complete Trust In Christ Jesus and not trusting myself!

Dude, that is montanism. Montanus taught that you were saved and forgiven once, but you couldn't be forgiven again. Thus, any new sins would not be forgiven because you were baptized already. This is exactly what you've been saying.

Orthodoxy states that Jesus didn't die to excuse our sins. He died to forgive our sins when we've repented of them with his Grace and our efforts. We need God's help to work out our salvation and to work on ridding ourselves of our sinfulness. We will never be fully successful; but it is in our continued walk in the Christ that our sins become "easier to manage" (in other words, we commit to sinful habits less and less) and we are better able to avoid other sins. We cannot "just" rely on God, for we have free will to sin or not to sin. God works with us in our lives, purifying our weakened deeds into a soul-healthy exercise of our free will. God is not a puppetmaster; we have no strings attached.

If we sin, we are guilty of that sin. We've violated our baptism oaths and we are now in jeopardy of hell. But God is merciful; He knows that we are not perfect due to original sin. That is why He gave unto the world His only Son to be the Perfect Sacrifice for us. In our baptism, we are not only united in the Christ in life, but in death and in Resurrection as well. With baptism, we are washed of original sin and our souls begin the process of regeneration. God begins to help us, but we still must put in the effort by choosing not to sin. If we do, we've failed in our end of the baptismal covenant. God now expects us to atone from that sin. We now must repent of that sin. We must feel sorry we did sin in a sincere way. We must realize that we did indeed sin. We must now renounce that sin and promise not to do it again with an honest heart. When God sees this, He knows that we have indeed repented, and will help us again. His Grace helps us avoid those sins again, and we rejoice with God each time we are successful.

By saying "God already forgave us," it means only one of two things: God will never forgive new sins after baptisms and thus, even just one sin will condemn us to hell, regardless of how much faith or how many good deeds we do. Or, it means that Jesus died for nothing because people didn't change; they don't feel sorry for their continued fallen lives. They don't work on improving themselves. They don't decide to choose to follow God. They just continue on their ways, not God's Way. They just put everything on Christ and don't expect to do a single thing themselves; they can sin all they want to and it doesn't matter because they were "born again."

Well no. They were not "born again;" that bit of popular theology is only ~100 years old. That's montanism. You need to repent of your sins. Otherwise, you've squandered your baptismal vows and covenant with God. You've thrown it in the trash. And God will not turn a blind eye to you or anyone else. You've replaced Jesus' Sacrifice with your own, and that isn't good enough.