forgiving

[RJH]

I am having a very difficult time with coming to terms with forgiveness. I'm talking about total, unconditional forgiveness of all people. Specifically, forgiving those who bomb people in subways in England, our 9/11 disaster, something that someone did to me a few years ago which to this day is devastating. How do I let go and forgive unconditionally?

 

[FadingWhispers3]

First, remember that forgivness does not mean acceptance or condoning an action. Forgiving something does not mean that suddenly it is ok. Forgiving does not make an evil out to be less than it is. A horrible or evil act is still a horrible or evil act even if you forgive. Nor does it mean forgetting.

Secondly, not forgiving gives negative emotions power over you. If a group or a person does evil acts and would not ever want your forgiveness, then obviously they wouldn't feel any regret that they never receive your forgiveness. In essense, it is you alone suffering. And for what cause? Emotions are good insofar as they promote good action. If nothing more can be done then you are punishing yourself for no good reason.

Thirdly, it is only right that whoever has received the ultimate forgiveness to forgive others. Whatever evil has been done cannot be greater than the forgiveness of God. If God, who has every right to bear a grudge and yet turns around to bless then how is it possible for the servants of God to bear a grudge? Forgiveness of others is a mark of someone who is him/herself forgiven.

May christians have the attitude of Paul who has said:

"Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life." 1 Timothy 1:15-17

 

[peepnklown]

RJH

If you can forgive the United States government for their involvement in the terrorist attacks (training, supplying weapons, funding) then you can forgive the terrorist.

 

[gwenmead]

In my not at all humble opinion, forgiveness is a very much abused, misused word.

What I've gleaned about it from personal experience is that there are a couple of parts to forgiveness. There is an element of not holding someone else accountable for something they've done. There's also an element of coming to a place where whatever they did has settled into a place in your life where it no longer devastates you or does damage.

Most of the time, when someone has asked me to forgive them for something, it was because they wanted me to wipe the slate clean so that they wouldn't have to be responsible for whatever they did. They wanted me to forgive them on their terms and on their timing, because they wanted to be able to abuse me again with impunity. Either that, or they didn't feel comfortable with me being upset with them. It was never really based on my needs at all.

Thing is, for forgiveness to be effective, it must be based on your needs and your timing. And y'know what? I think there are some things that people can't forgive. It just depends on the situation and the person involved. In any case, forgiveness takes time, and it may never come. And I've never found it to be a real step towards healing, if it's something that's forced. It just has to come as you process whatever happened.

Whether or not I forgive someone for something at their behest depends on a few things too. For one thing, are they demonstrating honest, genuine remorse? Do they really understand what they did, and that it was wrong? For another, are they willing to make any necessary reparations? And are they willing to change their behavior so that they don't do it again?

For me, also, it really really takes something HUGE for me not to forgive someone. I mean not dippy little things like oops, you rear-ended my car or broke my window or stepped on my foot. Those can be inconveniences but they don't significantly decrease the quality of my life. I'm talking about things like rape or child abuse or incest, or deep betrayal of trust. BIG stuff.

When I was Christian if there was someone I couldn't forgive, I would just ask God to do it for me, admitting that I wasn't capable of it at the time. As a pagan I hold a similar attitude. But of course, it depends. Your mileage may vary.

 

[AvgJoe]

I am having a very difficult time with coming to terms with forgiveness. I'm talking about total, unconditional forgiveness of all people. Specifically, forgiving those who bomb people in subways in England, our 9/11 disaster, something that someone did to me a few years ago which to this day is devastating. How do I let go and forgive unconditionally?

Maybe this will help~~~> http://www.rbc.org/index-cont.shtml

 

[Alecto]

How do I let go and forgive unconditionally?

You cant.

You have to be strong. Hatred has its place in our world. There are people who's throat I would gladly slice for the suffering they have inflicted on those close to me. I have no forgiveness for them.

Forgiving a friend for an argument is one thing, forgiving a man for murdering your wife is quite annother.

You forget that forgiveness is acceptance. If you forgive someone for something, you are saying "Its ok, its ok".

 

[Motus]

Nobody can forgive completely, unless they are detached from the world, and has a deep understanding of samsara.

 

[The Gregorian]

(note to mods, I'll use the word 'rag-head' in this post... I'm quoting a 'friend' who said these quotes, and I do not mean to offend anyone. Please read #2 of this post before commenting on my use of the racial slur)

How to forgive the 9/11 terrorists:

1: Realize that when people say "them rag-heads hate amurikanses and want to KEEEL YOOO!" They're lying. War is profitable, all governments love war because it makes money. That's why governments make so much money during war because we have to buy and spend a lot of money on it... we have to tax paying soldiars, then tax them on what they buy, then tax who they buy what they buy from, then tax this and that... etc. The more money is moved around, the more it can be taxed, the better our economy... we've spent about 200 bilion dollars on this war so far, therefore a lot of money's moved around, and made a lot of money... plus the personal interest of oil companies.

Yes, a few thousand people died... that's a horrible thing... what those people did was bad.... but easily that many children die EVERY HOUR from starvation. There are many times more babies dying every hour from abortion.... there are much worse things in this world then "the terrorists"

2: Realize that not all muslims are terrorists. Yes... Bin Laden is a crazy fundamentalist.... but Hitler was a christian fundamentalist too... it's not the muslims that are evil... it's the fundamentalists who blame their hatred on God, then justify murder by doing it in the name of their gods... Fundamentalists of all belief structures have done this.


Once you realize those two things... there's no "group of people" to blame or hate. Yes... there have been some individuals who have done horrible things under the influence of satan... but hating them will solve nothing. Holding a grudge will simply weaken you against satan and make this world more hateful. Yes, they did horrible things in the name of what they consider God.... God will judge those people as he sees fit, it is not our place. Using the same excuse to make attacks on them is just as bad as what they did to us.

 

[Motus]

There is no "us and them"

If you hate anyone, you also hate yourself and God too.

 

[Ryal Kane]

I think part of the key to forgiveness is understanding. If someone clips me with a car door and I crash my bike, it's an accident. They made a mistake and didn't see me, then I can understand that. People make mistakes.
If it was a deliberate action then it's harder for me to understand and harder to forgive. You have to try and understand the psychological motivation behind the action and possibly the reason for that psychology in the first place.

And understanding doesn't always mean forgiveness. Even if you get to the core of a peadophiles psychology, the reasoning for their actions, you still find it almost impossible to forgive what they have done. But then, do they deserve a chance at rehabilitation too? It's a very difficult topic.

In respect to the suicide bombings in London recently, then, oddly enough, this is something I an forgive. The stories coming out all suggest that the bombers were, for all intents and purposes, brainwashed by other fundimentalists. (I mean this as brainwashing in the cults sense, not the scifi, Manchurian Candidate sense. Look it up online) Humans are falibly and can be easily manipulated.
As for the leaders who arranged the bombings, it is a lot harder to forgive. I find it hard to understand. Just what is their motivation? What is their goal? How do they hope to achieve it. Iraq is the same: How does murdering the populus gain suport of the populus? I think there's a huge deficit of critical reasoning, people reacting emotionally, lashing out in violence to confront their fears.

Okay, I've digressed a little. Done now.

 

[Harlan Norris]

I think as Christians we often continue to see issues through worldly eyes. We equate national pride with divine judgement. On the day of judgement we will be responsible for "what we did ". If someone else has done something, it's " what they did ". God will judge our works, and we will be held accountable for them. Consider, James 4:12, There is one lawgiver, Who is able to save and destroy: Who art thou that Judgest another? It's not about what they did to us. It's about how we handle Jesus commandment to love one another. And the consequences of not doing so. If we can't forgive, how can we be forgiven?

 

[dkara]

Forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves.

Because an angry, bitter spirit can be self-destructive.

I've told this story before--so for any who remember the repition, sorry.
I was raped repeatedly when I was nine years old. My mother was a heroin addict and did not protect me or call the police when I was kidnapped by her ex-boyfriend. My father when he heard about it, told me it wasn't true.

I was totally innocent of any blame for this, and was quite damaged by it. Yet, it is my responsibility, not for what happened to me, but for what I choose to become because of it.

I forgave my mother, my father, and my rapist. None of them know this, my parents are dead and I never saw my rapist again.

It was a process--and it took years. Yet, I am happier today than I ever thought possible.

Today, I feel sorry for all of the above. You can't hurt a child and not have it harden your own heart.

It has not been forgotten, but today I can see pluses gained by me from the experience: compassion, seeing inside hurt eyes, etc...

It wasn't easy, but it sure was worth it.

It's a lot like this Native American Tale:
An old Grandfather said to his grandson, who came to him with anger at a friend who had done him an injustice...

"Let me tell you a story. I too, at times, have felt great hate for those who have taken so much, with no sorrow for what they do. But hate wears you down, and does not hurt your enemy. It's like taking poison and wishing your enemy would die."

"I have struggled with these feelings many times. It is as if there are two wolves inside me; one is good and does no harm. He lives in harmony with all around him and does not take offense when no offense was intended. He will only fight when it is right to do so, and in the right way.

But...the other wolf... ah! The littlest thing will send him into a fit of temper. He fights everyone, all of the time, for no reason. He cannot think because his anger and hate are so great. It is helpless anger, for his anger will change nothing."

"Sometimes it is hard to live with these two wolves inside me, for both of them try to dominate my spirit."

The boy looked intently into his Grandfather's eyes and asked, "Which one wins, Grandfather?"

The Grandfather smiled and quietly said, "The one I feed."


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[BondmaidenOfChrist]

IMO
Forgivness is a choice not a feeling or emotion.
And it is not forgeting,forgivness is chosing to live peacably with the consiquences of anothers actions.
Also this would mean not using that incident against them in the future.

Like if a person borowed $100 from you and never returned it,then later they came apppologized and asked your forgivness,and you granted it.A year later the same person askes you to led him some cash.And you're like no way!Remember what happend last time I let you borrow from me!
That would not be true forgivness because you still hold the thing against them.