How often do we see people treated as Jesus treated the woman who was about to be stoned and her accusers? It never even reached the 'courts'. We need more of that IMO.Was He referring to how society would develop due to His Story?
Agreed. yet in today's world in spite of all it's experts extenuating circumstances are rarely considered anymore. The judicial system is more like a drive through. We don't care. Just chose whatever we offer on the menu as a punishment and move on so the courts don't get any more cluttered. they are trying to simplify an overloaded system without considering circumstance. An overload which shows society is broken but no one wants to face that fact.Hard to say. There are some individuals who would benefit from a second chance. Others just take advantage of any leeway they are given. Forgiveness is generally a good thing. But there are countless people growing up who have never had any consequences for wrongdoing. Why would they change their behaviour as adults if they've not known discipline as a child? Even the worldly psychologists are beginning to wake up to this obvious fact.
True, but often the outcome often doesn't stop with the punishment.
recidivism is extremely high for criminals, and many need to be kept in prison for the safety of themselves and society.
The pproblem with recidivism is that it is often the result of society not forgiving after punishment. The societal punishment continues after prison by not hiring, housing or generally accepting those with a criminal record back into society. It sets them up with little recourse but to go back to the criminal life to even survive.
So I suppose my take is we as the people need to forgive and be permissive and loving, not so for the government. As a society, we must also be more accepting and forgiving, but the law needs to remain as well as punishment for breaking it with severity that matches the crime
Only the victim owns the copyright to forgive the criminals who commited crimes against him.
Anyone who speaks on his behalf, without permission,
is no different than a common thief.
Also jails are far too cushy.
God wishes for us to be tempered with forgiveness. Man is just tempered and seeks to punish as a rule. Would less damage be done, instead of destroying lives of those who make mistakes (as we all do), if punishment was incorporated with forgiveness by society rather than left to individuals?
The people in prison are society. @comana said it well:
Precisely. This is why California is making big reforms.
Whatever happened to "We the people" being the government?
This would mean that the state is a common thief since the vast majority of cases in court is "The State of _______________Vs ______________."
You've been there?
Punishment is part of the taking responsibility for one's actions. But at what point should that punishment stop? Should a person suffer in society for the rest of their lives even after paying the price dictated by a victim or the law? Perhaps it should be illegal to persecute/oppress a person in society once the punishment is served, as a counterbalance. Both sides need to understand the damage done in carrying on the accusation.Punishment is meant to be restorative. No punishment would equal no reason for a person to change. We might wish punishment weren't needed, but for sinful humans, I'm afraid it is.
It isn't the case that rehabilitation schemes don't exist, at least in the UK. Ex-prisoners can even open their own bank accounts as soon as they come out, as there are schemes that allow this. No idea what happens in other countries. There is also plenty of opportunity for re-education in prison. However you can't really expect the average employer to employ someone who's just come out of prison in a well-paid position, where competition in the job market is rigorous. They have to compete for jobs along with everyone else. Also in the UK at least, they are still regarded as serving their sentences when they come out, as most are let out at the half way mark. Ex-prisoners have to start at the bottom, unless their skills are in demand, which they may well be, but it just isn't true that they don't have any opportunities. It's often that they don't take them.However, there is no denying that few in society have any interest in helping them post incarceration to get on a productive path. In fact they build barriers instead.
It must be different over there because what I've seen in the US is that ex prisoners have minimal job opportunities. If a conviction comes up on a background check, or is required to be listed on a job application, it is pretty much guaranteed that person won't be hired. When a parole does not maintain employment they are in violation and are sent back to jail. It's hard to get your life back together when you're considered damaged goods.It isn't the case that rehabilitation schemes don't exist, at least in the UK. Ex-prisoners can even open their own bank accounts as soon as they come out, as there are schemes that allow this. No idea what happens in other countries. There is also plenty of opportunity for re-education in prison. However you can't really expect the average employer to employ someone who's just come out of prison in a well-paid position, where competition in the job market is rigorous. They have to compete for jobs along with everyone else. Also in the UK at least, they are still regarded as serving their sentences when they come out, as most are let out at the half way mark. Ex-prisoners have to start at the bottom, unless their skills are in demand, which they may well be, but it just isn't true that they don't have any opportunities. It's often that they don't take them.
They have to compete for jobs along with everyone else. Also in the UK at least, they are still regarded as serving their sentences when they come out, as most are let out at the half way mark. Ex-prisoners have to start at the bottom, unless their skills are in demand, which they may well be, but it just isn't true that they don't have any opportunities. It's often that they don't take them.
When a parole does not maintain employment they are in violation and are sent back to jail. It's hard to get your life back together when you're considered damaged goods.
That could just as easily apply to being 'dismissed from a job with cause'. The results are often the same. Can a lesson be learned or does the lapse in judgment which may not even be unlawful, become a life sentence?If a conviction comes up on a background check, or is required to be listed on a job application, it is pretty much guaranteed that person won't be hired.
Unbelievers mostly obey the law out of fear. I'm talking about the law of the land, not God's law. People in the state where I live used to drive like lunatics. When I moved here, I was horrified and I'm a lead-foot. The death toll became unacceptable and law enforcement was drastically increased. Now people mostly do not speed and the death toll is much lower.
I don't know how I am supposed to forgive people who have not offended me. I don't know what you are getting at.
This is a request for enlightenment. I have no legal background, am primarily familiar with UK law as a citizen and have read only snippets of one or two Acts of Parliament. From that limited background, however, I do not recall any official recognition, via Act of Parliament, of evil. Wrongdoing, yes. Evil, no. Are you saying that US legislation regarding crimes formally recognises evil?Government's primary interest is justice, to punish evil and protect the innocent.
How often do we see people treated as Jesus treated the woman who was about to be stoned and her accusers? It never even reached the 'courts'. We need more of that IMO.
No, I'm not claiming that. I can't say whether evil is mentioned per se in law. It may be, and most probably is in the thoughts of the Founders and legal scholars through our nation's life, but the nature of laws being very tightly worded, I would think that the specific crime would be called by name rather than referred to as an evil.Are you saying that US legislation regarding crimes formally recognises evil?
Even before that.Do you mean like judges giving out more lenient sentences, or ordering drug treatment or counseling instead of jail time, etc.?
Though the government must deal with specifics, their task, according to Scripture, is in principle to oppose evil. Of course, these days just positing the existence of evil is enough to arouse opposition in some quarters.
This question has challenged the great thinkers, and they have come up with Just War Theory, the guidelines of which help determine when a valid moral right exists to go to war or to revolt against an unjust government. In this fallen world you can have those who are fighting evil, and who are not in power, with those in power being the ones perpetrating evil. This is an inversion of the will of God as stated in Rom 13. To some extent or another, it's quite common.So, whoever is opposing evil is the true authority?
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