Forgiveness

[Robban]

No, I'm not claiming that. I can't say whether evil is mentioned per se in law. It may be, and most probably is in the thoughts of the Founders and legal scholars through our nation's life, but the nature of laws being very tightly worded, I would think that the specific crime would be called by name rather than referred to as an evil.

What I was referring to was a legal principle given in the Bible from the Christian perspective:

For the rulers are not a terror to good deeds, but to evil. Do you want to not be afraid of the authority? Do the good, and you will have praise from the same.
For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him doing evil. -Rom 13:3-4​

Though the government must deal with specifics, their task, according to Scripture, is in principle to oppose evil. Of course, these days just positing the existence of evil is enough to arouse opposition in some quarters.

With that reasoning a few are given power, way too much power, and only as long as they are in office.

The authority should be with Judges,
police and army they carry the sword.

Politicians are in it for the money and perks, an egotrip
for the most part.

 

[Ophiolite]

No, I'm not claiming that. I can't say whether evil is mentioned per se in law. It may be, and most probably is in the thoughts of the Founders and legal scholars through our nation's life, but the nature of laws being very tightly worded, I would think that the specific crime would be called by name rather than referred to as an evil.

What I was referring to was a legal principle given in the Bible from the Christian perspective:

For the rulers are not a terror to good deeds, but to evil. Do you want to not be afraid of the authority? Do the good, and you will have praise from the same.
For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him doing evil. -Rom 13:3-4​

Though the government must deal with specifics, their task, according to Scripture, is in principle to oppose evil. Of course, these days just positing the existence of evil is enough to arouse opposition in some quarters.

Thank you for your comprehensive reply. I respectfully suggest, based on your comments, that the government interest is not directed towards punishing evil. That is, from a Christian perspective, the consequence of its legislation, but not an accurate way to describe its focus on punishing wrongdoing.

 

[paul1149]

With that reasoning a few are given power, way too much power, and only as long as they are in office.

The authority should be with Judges,
police and army they carry the sword.

Politicians are in it for the money and perks, an egotrip
for the most part.

That depends on the form of government, and judges and police are in fact part of government. We are supposed to be a nation of impartial laws, but far too often we don't live up to that.

 

[paul1149]

Thank you for your comprehensive reply. I respectfully suggest, based on your comments, that the government interest is not directed towards punishing evil. That is, from a Christian perspective, the consequence of its legislation, but not an accurate way to describe its focus on punishing wrongdoing.

The Bible is opening the curtain and describing what goes on in the spiritual realm. God uses men's laws to control evil and to bring evildoers to account and hopefully to repentance. But from a secular point of view, yes, the focus of the laws is on enumerated wrongdoings.

 

[Robban]

That depends on the form of government, and judges and police are in fact part of government. We are supposed to be a nation of impartial laws, but far too often we don't live up to that.

A government should serve the people, they are servants,
civilservants, that is why we should pay our taxes so that they too can be paid.

They are not to lord over the people.
In a democracy they are elected for a short term.

Judges however, if they are judges have authority.

Psalms 82 is addressed to judges,

one version calls them gods, another calls them angelic creatures, even so, they too will die as any mortal.

 

[timothyu]

The secular laws don't outwardly proclaim we have broken the law of loving all as self, but each one in it's own way addresses that very issue (except of course where it is illegal to question their authourity) God clearly states His will before that of man.

But if forgiveness were put into play before those laws were even used to punish, there would be far less damage done.

 

[pleinmont]

I would forgive a person who is truly sorry for their misdeeds.

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread had a small clean up as it became an apologetics thread.

​

 

[loveofourlord]

One issue I find with forgiveness, especially often within Christianity is that forgiveness, is linked to forgetness. Oh he's been forgiven by god, so you must forget what he did, and not hold it against him that he sexual abused you. Or other such things, I know it's used as a weapon, but I hear too many stories of things like this. Forgiveness is divine, forgetness is folly.

 

[muichimotsu]

One issue I find with forgiveness, especially often within Christianity is that forgiveness, is linked to forgetness. Oh he's been forgiven by god, so you must forget what he did, and not hold it against him that he sexual abused you. Or other such things, I know it's used as a weapon, but I hear too many stories of things like this. Forgiveness is divine, forgetness is folly.

Forgiveness can be as much to yourself in regards to not letting it be a shackle for you as it is to others in regards to understanding that we are fallible. And the forgive and forget is a cliched expression and it may not necessarily reflect how it ought to be done in terms of the virtue of compassion, etc.

 

[loveofourlord]

Forgiveness can be as much to yourself in regards to not letting it be a shackle for you as it is to others in regards to understanding that we are fallible. And the forgive and forget is a cliched expression and it may not necessarily reflect how it ought to be done in terms of the virtue of compassion, etc.

well what I mean is, by not holding others to the shackles of their actions, you allow abuse, I'm not saying we shouldn't give a second chance, but you give a second chance to a rapist, but don't do anything to make sure he can't act on it again, your as guilty as they are for anything they do. God can forget as he can know the heart and the future, we can't know neither so we must be careful.

 

[muichimotsu]

Enabling abuse is distinct from acknowledging it happened and moving forward rather than making that abuse something that is caging you. Trauma never fully leaves, we find a healthy way to cope with the aftereffects

Who's saying anything about not being vigilant? I'm not encouraging passivity in regards to forgiveness, it's an active process, I'd argue. It isn't just a matter of assuming someone won't backslide to bad behavior, but it also isn't your responsibility to try and fix someone else unless you can actually approach them as they are instead of what you want them to be

 

[timothyu]

There are those in a minority, on the narrow path, who stand without judgement by those who have become lost physically or morally, so that they may not feel alone while others judge or shame them. It is a pity that the world of man teaches us to do the latter.