Forgiveness

[Yahu]

M
Its like when Jesus said turn the other cheek. If we keep getting hit each time you turn the other cheek we will start to flinch.

IMO it appears you hold to a misunderstanding of that teaching. To be slapped in the face was to be accused of error. To turn the other cheek was to stand in defiance of that judgement by standing your ground for the correctness of your position.

For example, Yeshua was slapped in the face for admitting to the high priest that He was God. He was slapped for supposed blasphemy but He was NOT guilty of it.

It is NOT an act of meekness but an act of defiance when accused of being in the wrong when you are actually in the right. Stand your ground for what is right and truth regardless of the opposition of others that attack you for that position.

It isn't a requirement to let people abuse you and just forgive them for that abuse when they are not repentant.

 

[Yahu]

In Matthew 6:14 Jesus says "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15 but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."


Here is the thing about forgiveness. God wants us to forgive people that hurt us because if we don't it hurts us!

But the parable given has the bad servant that gets forgiven a great debt while he REFUSES to forgive another a small debt even when asked for it.

People often overlook that requirement of refusing to forgive when asked is the key to that passage.

Yah (God) Himself does NOT forgive the unrepentant. Forgiving the unrepentant empowers them to continue in that evil towards you and others.

We are to GO TO a brother that offends us and confront them to give them the opportunity to repent. If he doesn't, you take it before witnesses and again give him a chance to repent. Then take it before the church. You have to resolve the offense by their repentance and your forgiveness of that offense.

 

[blackribbon]

So why isn't the Whole world Christian? That's your job; fix Christianity and bring in the World. The 'fix Christianity' bit could be interesting.

The problem with this statement is that Christians aren't fixed...just forgiven and hopefully truly trying to work toward becoming more Christ-like. It requires a humble servant-like attitude which isn't something people find attractive until they really meet God on a personal level.

 

[blackribbon]

As for forgiveness...the only person usually held hostage and harmed by unforgiveness is the person who won't forgive. You can forgive without the other party seeking repentence...but forgiveness does not mean you invite an unrepentant person back into your life to harm you again.

Most sins of unforgiveness are not over major issues like rape, they are over hurt feelings and misunderstands. Other times they are over someone else's personal hurts just overflowing unintentionally into our lives. For example: That bitter old man who makes your life a living hell really doesn't have anything again you, but his childhood hurts robbed him of all his innocence and joy at a very young age.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

I disagree that we only forgive those that ask for it. It hurts us when we don't forgive while the other person is just going along with their lives. Also sometimes the other person cannot ask. Maybe they died, or maybe they just don't think they need to be forgiven.
I forgave my dad for the treatment of me when I was young and he was an alcoholic. I forgave him before he asked me because it was affecting me! In fact when I told him again over the phone that I forgave him, he said he didn't do anything to be forgiven for! But we have a semi relationship now because I forgave him. He didn't ask for it, and maybe doesn't deserve it, but Christ forgave me before I asked and He loved me while I was yet a sinner. So I believe we need to forgive whether or not the other person thinks they need to be or not.
And BTW, I don't think it's very cool to suggest to posters that they are wrong or don't understand the teaching. While that may be true, we are all here voicing our opinions and I just don't think it's right to call someone out like that. We are called to love our neighbor as ourselves and to me, that means forgiving them whether they deserve it or not, because that is what Jesus did for me.

 

[Yahu]

because that is what Jesus did for me.

No, it isn't. He didn't forgive you until you acknowledged your error and asked for it. If you had not repented, you could NOT be forgiven.

Forgiveness REQUIRES an act of repentance by the offending party. Not holding vengeance against them isn't forgiveness. Yes, it can be a good thing to do and IMO will help your grow spiritually.

There is more to forgiveness then just releasing someone from accountablity against you. Their offense is still an offense against Yah and they are still held accountable whether you let them get away with it or not. If they repent, then that offense is dealt with in Yah's eyes as well.

Forgiving the unrepentant does nothing for them. Yes, it can help you refrain from developing bitterness in yourself. So if the individual is dead, yes you still have to reject bitterness over the offense. IMO that is all your doing is releasing any potential bitterness, not releasing them of accountability for their actions.

They are two separate issues. Not confronting their error just lets them go on offending others in the same way which is even more harmful to them. Until they acknowledge that actions as wrong, it doesn't help them. You just empower them to go on in greater error.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

No, it isn't. He didn't forgive you until you acknowledged your error and asked for it. If you had not repented, you could NOT be forgiven.

Forgiveness REQUIRES an act of repentance by the offending party. Not holding vengeance against them isn't forgiveness. Yes, it can be a good thing to do and IMO will help your grow spiritually.

There is more to forgiveness then just releasing someone from accountablity against you. Their offense is still an offense against Yah and they are still held accountable whether you let them get away with it or not. If they repent, then that offense is dealt with in Yah's eyes as well.

Forgiving the unrepentant does nothing for them. Yes, it can help you refrain from developing bitterness in yourself. So if the individual is dead, yes you still have to reject bitterness over the offense. IMO that is all your doing is releasing any potential bitterness, not releasing them of accountability for their actions.

They are two separate issues. Not confronting their error just lets them go on offending others in the same way which is even more harmful to them. Until they acknowledge that actions as wrong, it doesn't help them. You just empower them to go on in greater error.

Well I disagree with you. So lets just leave it at that, shall we? The bible does not say that we can do ANYTHING to gain our salvation. It is a gift from God, so no man can boast. I DO have to believe and trust Him as my Savior but beyond that, I can't do anything to "earn" eternal life.

 

[dayhiker]

Mat.5:38“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’h 39But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Well, yahu ... you seemed to totally miss the point of my post.

Then I don't see in the context anything about being accused in error? Most of history and most of the people in the world don't have the luxury of standing in defiance if they want to live. So I don't see what your saying as very practical for most people.

IMO it appears you hold to a misunderstanding of that teaching. To be slapped in the face was to be accused of error. To turn the other cheek was to stand in defiance of that judgement by standing your ground for the correctness of your position.

For example, Yeshua was slapped in the face for admitting to the high priest that He was God. He was slapped for supposed blasphemy but He was NOT guilty of it.

It is NOT an act of meekness but an act of defiance when accused of being in the wrong when you are actually in the right. Stand your ground for what is right and truth regardless of the opposition of others that attack you for that position.

It isn't a requirement to let people abuse you and just forgive them for that abuse when they are not repentant.