Forgiveness must come from the victim

[Godistruth1]

Because, when Jesus came to earth in the form of sinful flesh, He submitted to the Person of God in Heaven as His Father.

So Jesus did have a God for a time being as per bible?

 

[JIMINZ]

So Jesus did have a God for a time being as per bible?

Jesus was always GOD Co equal with the Father, but, while He came to earth in the form of Sinful Flesh as a lesser being, He submitted Himself to the Father GOD.

He did not lose His GODSHIP He submitted to becoming a lesser being.

What was Jesus saying in this verse about their visitation?

Luke 19:44
And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

 

[dlamberth]

Jesus was always GOD Co equal with the Father, but, while He came to earth in the form of Sinful Flesh as a lesser being, He submitted Himself to the Father GOD.

He did not lose His GODSHIP He submitted to becoming a lesser being.

What was Jesus saying in this verse about their visitation?

Luke 19:44
And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

So, I find myself praying not to Jesus, but to whom Jesus prayed to.

 

[JIMINZ]

So, I find myself praying not to Jesus, but to whom Jesus prayed to.

Your trying to split hairs that don't even exist.

I see that you are listed as Other Religion which means not Christian therefore, whoever you might pray to is not to Jesus or God as the Christian God.

 

[dlamberth]

Your trying to split hairs that don't even exist.

I see that you are listed as Other Religion which means not Christian therefore, whoever you might pray to is not to Jesus or God as the Christian God.

Jesus, being Jewish had a Jewish perspective of God. I just know that when sitting in the Heart of Christ, and seeing where Christ prayed to, that's who I pray to.

 

[JIMINZ]

Jesus, being Jewish had a Jewish perspective of God. I just know that when sitting in the Heart of Christ, and seeing where Christ prayed to, that's who I pray to.

Why?
I don't mean to be disrespectful but don't you have a God of your own in whatever Other Religion you belong to?

I don't pray to Buddha, I pray to the one true God.

 

[dlamberth]

Why?
I don't mean to be disrespectful but don't you have a God of your own in whatever Other Religion you belong to?

I don't pray to Buddha, I pray to the one true God.

There's only One Source that we call God by many names.

It's like the leaves on a tree. Each leaf is different from all the rest. Yet they are all part of the tree.

 

[ViaCrucis]

In a sense all sin is against God, when I attack my neighbor it is both an attack on my neighbor and an attack on God. St. James says, "With the tongue we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. Out of the same mouth comes blessing and cursing. My brothers, this should not be!" (James 3:9-10). Jesus in presenting the love of God and the love of neighbor in the same Commandment ties the two together. When we curse our fellow man, we curse God in whose image man is. When we attack our neighbor, we make both our neighbor and God our victim.

In His death, Christ willingly becomes Victim. Becoming the cursed of the world, "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us--for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree'--so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith." (Galatians 3:13-14). The "curse of the Law" isn't the Law itself, but rather the curse which comes from the Law by sin, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them," (Deuteronomy 27:26).

The forgiveness we receive from God, through Christ, does not mean that we do not have to make amends or seek forgiveness from our neighbor when we cause them injury. If I steal from someone, of course I must return what I've stolen and make every effort to amend that injury. Nor does it mean that we will not have to face temporal consequences for our actions, if I steal, I will likely be arrested and face charges and sentencing in court. Such civil justice is necessary for the good of human society.

The forgiveness we receive from God is that forgiveness whereby we have been cleared of charges, as it were, in the Divine Court. More than this, it is reconciliation and healing, from God, to amend the animosity and enmity with which man has against Him. God's response to our attack against Him and His creation is not to strike us, but to save us. Where we earnestly sought to harm, God comes bearing healing and redemption. God becomes man, and participates in the wretchedness with which we bring, by becoming our Chief Victim. But paradoxically it is in becoming Victim that He is Victor. Hence St. Augustine's declaration, Victor quia Victima, "Victor, because a Victim"

God, the Victim, makes amends with us by His redeeming and healing us, forgiving us freely and without hesitation. In light of this grace, He calls us out to be a people of forgiveness in the world, to go and make peace with our neighbor by loving them. When we injure, we seek to amend wrongs; when we are injured we show the same mercy with which we were shown; hence the instruction in the Lord's Prayer, "Forgive us our sins, even as we forgive those who have sinned against us." That the same forgiveness shown us from God is how we are now to operate and live in the world.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Why did Jesus call the Father his God?

The Son refers to His Father as "God". But we also read that the Father calls His Son "God" (Hebrews 1:8).

Because both the Father and the Son are God--there is only one God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JIMINZ]

There's only One Source that we call God by many names.

It's like the leaves on a tree. Each leaf is different from all the rest. Yet they are all part of the tree.

You can pray to any leaf you choose, I pray to the Creator of the Universe the One Rue God.

 

[dlamberth]

You can pray to any leaf you choose, I pray to the Creator of the Universe the One Rue God.

The image of the multiple leafs on a tree is that there are many perspectives of the Creator of the Universe...many ways to the One True Source of all. We can see the truth of that in how vibrant and alive the Divine is within Human Beings through out the spiritual spectrum of beliefs that reaches across the face of the Earth. As I stated earlier, for myself, I pray and worship who Jesus prayed and worshiped.

 

[JIMINZ]

The image of the multiple leafs on a tree is that there are many perspectives of the Creator of the Universe...many ways to the One True Source of all. We can see the truth of that in how vibrant and alive the Divine is within Human Beings through out the spiritual spectrum of beliefs that reaches across the face of the Earth. As I stated earlier, for myself, I pray and worship who Jesus prayed and worshiped.

If you do not have the Son (Jesus) then you do not have the Father (GOD)

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Therefore If you are Praying to the Father, your Prayers are falling on deaf ears because, He (God) only hears those who are his Children, those through Jesus Christ His only Begotten Son.

John 8:19
Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

If you will not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you do not have access to the Father (GOD)

John 15:23
He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

 

[dlamberth]

If you do not have the Son (Jesus) then you do not have the Father (GOD)

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Therefore If you are Praying to the Father, your Prayers are falling on deaf ears because, He (God) only hears those who are his Children, those through Jesus Christ His only Begotten Son.

John 8:19
Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

If you will not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you do not have access to the Father (GOD)

John 15:23
He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

I understand what you believe. And your welcomed to that singular belief. But what I actually see around me is a much different picture. It's a picture where the essence of Christ is as wide and as deep as the Universe and completely vibrant with in the core of Creation itSelf, which Human Beings are a part of. It's a picture of the reach of God that is infinitely larger than any single religion is able to contain. It's a picture of Love that is at the Heart of the Spark of Life. It's a picture of infinite variety of form while at the same time sitting in the Oneness of the Source of all.

 

[JIMINZ]

I understand what you believe. And your welcomed to that singular belief. But what I actually see around me is a much different picture. It's a picture where the essence of Christ is as wide and as deep as the Universe and completely vibrant with in the core of Creation itSelf, which Human Beings are a part of. It's a picture of the reach of God that is infinitely larger than any single religion is able to contain. It's a picture of Love that is at the Heart of the Spark of Life. It's a picture of infinite variety of form while at the same time sitting in the Oneness of the Source of all.

Are you saying that you do not believe that Jesus Christ being God, has not come in the Flesh?

 

[dlamberth]

Are you saying that you do not believe that Jesus Christ being God, has not come in the Flesh?

I do not worship Jesus "as" God. I worship whom Jesus worshiped "as" God.

But I think the more important question to ask one's self is in how each of us brings God into our lives as a reality. Way too many, from how I see things, only "believe" in God and have not learned how to bring God in as their reality. But Jesus spent most of His ministry teaching exactly that.

 

[Godistruth1]

The Son refers to His Father as "God". But we also read that the Father calls His So

Hebrews is written by paul and he said just the opposite of what Jesus said on many instances in the bible.

Because both the Father and the Son are God--there is only one God.

No u counted 2 gods

 

[JIMINZ]

Hebrews is written by paul and he said just the opposite of what Jesus said on many instances in the bible.

No u counted 2 gods

When you are able to understand the subject then your opinion might have some weight to it.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hebrews is written by paul and he said just the opposite of what Jesus said on many instances in the bible.

No u counted 2 gods

Hebrews wasn't written by Paul, its authorship is unknown. But it's also entirely irrelevant, as the Epistle to the Hebrews is regarded as authoritative in Christianity and therefore its contents representative of Christian teaching.

And no, I counted one God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God.

I have a novel idea: How about I not tell you what you "actually" believe as a Muslim, and you don't tell me what I "actually" believe as a Christian. And instead we act like mature adults who are able to learn about one another's religion without accusing the other of something the other doesn't believe.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Godistruth1]

When you are able to understand the subject then your opinion might have some weight to it.

Im just putting facts on the table. Paul did do opposite things that Jesus preached and when u said father and son u counted 2 personalities so two gods

 

[Godistruth1]

Hebrews wasn't written by Paul, its authorship is unknown. But it's also entirely irrelevant, as the Epistle to the Hebrews is regarded as authoritative in Christianity and therefore its contents representative of Christian teaching.

Wow seriously. How can u trust a text when you have no idea where it came from

And no, I counted one God. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God

Not gonna talk more on this

I have a novel idea: How about I not tell you what you "actually" believe as a Muslim, and you don't tell me what I "actually" believe as a Christian. And instead we act like mature adults who are able to learn about one another's religion without accusing the other of something the other doesn't believe.

Have i said anything that im imposing on your beliefs?