Forgivable?

[ArmorofGod18]

Are Blasphemous thoughts forgivable?

 

[kaykay9.0]

Armor, these things you are talking about are not spiritually significant. Your problem is religious OCD.

 

[picassoui]

kay may be right im not disputing her but the danger here is to say that this is not a spiritual problem only an ocd problem... it could very well be both that doesn't mean that you have commited the unpardonable sin ..what i am saying is by labelling it as only ocd you are not answering the question..

the question has to do with forgiveness because even christians without ocd some times have these thoughts but those who do have a horrible time with it ..

so i think youre question needs to be adressed as a theological concern and not just about ocd ..

if you have ocd it may certainly be the reason you have the concern but then again it may not ..


My answer to youre question is according to my understanding which is very inadequate ..

The unintentional thoughts we have are forgivable ...period ..

 

[seajoy]

Armor, these things you are talking about are not spiritually significant. Your problem is religious OCD.

Excellent post!

 

[kaykay9.0]

kay may be right im not disputing her but the danger here is to say that this is not a spiritual problem only an ocd problem... it could very well be both that doesn't mean that you have commited the unpardonable sin ..what i am saying is by labelling it as only ocd you are not answering the question..

the question has to do with forgiveness because even christians without ocd some times have these thoughts but those who do have a horrible time with it ..

so i think youre question needs to be adressed as a theological concern and not just about ocd ..

if you have ocd it may certainly be the reason you have the concern but then again it may not ..


My answer to youre question is according to my understanding which is very inadequate ..

The unintentional thoughts we have are forgivable ...period ..

Let me try to clarify what I meant better. It's a legitimate theological question, but for those struggling with OCD, it's the OCD that takes even theological truth to the point that it becomes "error." Hope I'm explaining myself on that.

For most people, it would be a theologically significant question. For those of us who struggle with OCD, it's just the OCD rearing its ugly head in almost every single case.

 

[seajoy]

Let me try to clarify what I meant better. It's a legitimate theological question, but for those struggling with OCD, it's the OCD that takes even theological truth to the point that it becomes "error." Hope I'm explaining myself on that.

For most people, it would be a theologically significant question. For those of us who struggle with OCD, it's just the OCD rearing its ugly head in almost every single case.

You are on a roll!

 

[picassoui]

Let me try to clarify what I meant better. It's a legitimate theological question, but for those struggling with OCD, it's the OCD that takes even theological truth to the point that it becomes "error." Hope I'm explaining myself on that.

For most people, it would be a theologically significant question. For those of us who struggle with OCD, it's just the OCD rearing its ugly head in almost every single case.

im saying there is a danger in putting the the person who is asking a serious theological question off by only adressing OCD .Im not speaking of you but in plural as in WE.
It is still a signifigant theological concern regardless of OCD .. Im saying we need to adresse both ... Just saying it is OCD does not erase the concern
nor does it adresse the real concern which is will God forgive me or not?.
This is a theological matter .

We can say to the cows come home that it is OCD but we are not adressing the underlying question..

 

[kaykay9.0]

im saying there is a danger in putting the the person who is asking a serious theological question off by only adressing OCD .Im not speaking of you but in plural as in WE.
It is still a signifigant theological concern regardless of OCD .. Im saying we need to adresse both ... Just saying it is OCD does not erase the concern
nor does it adresse the real concern which is will God forgive me or not?.
This is a theological matter .

We can say to the cows come home that it is OCD but we are not adressing the underlying question..

Yeah, you're right about this. Yes, questioning does merit a full answer. However, I just didn't feel the need in this case because I have previously addressed the theological issue with armorofGod. I have also given him the website www.net-burst.net/guilty/scrupulosity.htm which I think explains it better theologically than I can.

He may want others' theological stance on this issue from previous threads. He already knows that my stance is best summed up in this general statement/"rule of thumb." "If you are concerned that you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit, you haven't."

Plus, I still believe that the heart of almost every post of this type is OCD, not legitimate theological questioning. An angel from heaven, as I've said before, could come down and give one of us some theological reassurance on whatever question is bothering us at the moment. And we would likely be comforted...for awhile until OCD hit us again, maybe on another topic or from another angle.

That's why many of us, myself included, tend to continue to address the "OCD angle" of this, rather than the specific theological question. Sometimes, getting into theological wranglings will even make the OCD worse and end up being counter-productive IMO.

 

[picassoui]

Yeah, you're right about this. Yes, questioning does merit a full answer. However, I just didn't feel the need in this case because I have previously addressed the theological issue with armorofGod. I have also given him the website www.net-burst.net/guilty/scrupulosity.htm which I think explains it better theologically than I can.

He may want others' theological stance on this issue from previous threads. He already knows that my stance is best summed up in this general statement/"rule of thumb." "If you are concerned that you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit, you haven't."

Plus, I still believe that the heart of almost every post of this type is OCD, not legitimate theological questioning. An angel from heaven, as I've said before, could come down and give one of us some theological reassurance on whatever question is bothering us at the moment. And we would likely be comforted...for awhile until OCD hit us again, maybe on another topic or from another angle.

That's why many of us, myself included, tend to continue to address the "OCD angle" of this, rather than the specific theological question. Sometimes, getting into theological wranglings will even make the OCD worse and end up being counter-productive IMO.

If in youre opinion it is just OCD then why adresse it at all...? After all if you are right then there really is no point .. because if you have ocd you have no legitimate theological concerns so what is the point ?
Just so we can be reminded that our concerns are not legitimate ?
They are legitimate and that is why we are here posting and reading and trying to find YES reassurance and yes comfort ..

 

[kaykay9.0]

If in youre opinion it is just OCD then why adresse it at all...? After all if you are right then there really is no point .. because if you have ocd you have no legitimate theological concerns so what is the point ?
Just so we can be reminded that our concerns are not legitimate ?
They are legitimate and that is why we are here posting and reading and trying to find YES reassurance and yes comfort ..

The reason I post and say this is to give reassurance in the form of trying to reassure and convince the person that it's just their OCD talking to them, not something they really need to concern and torment themselves over.

As I've commented in this forum before, it was a tremendous help to me in my battle against OCD to just understand that these issues I battled were actually OCD and not REAL issues. Maybe this isn't as empowering to others, but it was for me. It's not the whole answer, but just identifying my enemy was really significant to me personally.

When I tell someone that their issues are OCD related and not of spiritual significance, I AM trying to comfort them by assuring them that, in this case, they have NOT blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Again, it is just their OCD talking to them.

I think, in order not to "hijack" this thread, that I will put the rest of this discussion in the thread you just opened specifically about this.

to be continued there!....

 

[picassoui]

HIJACK ..... That is an interesting word ..

 

[seajoy]

If in youre opinion it is just OCD then why adresse it at all...? After all if you are right then there really is no point .. because if you have ocd you have no legitimate theological concerns so what is the point ?
Just so we can be reminded that our concerns are not legitimate ?
They are legitimate and that is why we are here posting and reading and trying to find YES reassurance and yes comfort ..

I spent 8 years being reassured over and over again, but until God led me to a psychiatrist that taught me exposure/response therapy, I only got worse and worse and had numerous psych hospital stays. We are dealing with OCD here. Until that's under control, there are only questions upon questions. This person is covered under God's grace while even in the throws of OCD. It's time we look at this for what it is. It's a brain chemical imbalance. Our salvation is not at stake from OCD. Jesus is the author and perfector of our faith, not us.

 

[picassoui]

I spent 8 years being reassured over and over again, but until God led me to a psychiatrist that taught me exposure/response therapy, I only got worse and worse and had numerous psych hospital stays. We are dealing with OCD here. Until that's under control, there are only questions upon questions. This person is covered under God's grace while even in the throws of OCD. It's time we look at this for what it is. It's a brain chemical imbalance. Our salvation is not at stake from OCD. Jesus is the author and perfector of our faith, not us.

It takes both where we see it as a theological issue as well as a chemical imbalance ..

 

[kaykay9.0]

I spent 8 years being reassured over and over again, but until God led me to a psychiatrist that taught me exposure/response therapy, I only got worse and worse and had numerous psych hospital stays. We are dealing with OCD here. Until that's under control, there are only questions upon questions. This person is covered under God's grace while even in the throws of OCD. It's time we look at this for what it is. It's a brain chemical imbalance. Our salvation is not at stake from OCD. Jesus is the author and perfector of our faith, not us.

Exactly. We are not addressing the "issue" because usually "addressing the issue" doesn't solve the long-term problem.

 

[picassoui]

Exactly. We are not addressing the "issue" because usually "addressing the issue" doesn't solve the long-term problem.

We can always agree to disagree

 

[seajoy]

We can always agree to disagree

But disagreeing here is going to cause you continued troubles in your OCD recovery. Neither kaykay nor I want to see that for you.

 

[picassoui]

But disagreeing here is going to cause you continued troubles in your OCD recovery. Neither kaykay nor I want to see that for you.

I have the right to disagree and i do so not for the fun of it .. i would like to believe you both that isn't the issue ... the issue is is that in my mind the problem is ignoring the persons concern based on an assumption.
If one asks a spiritual question you should adresse it as such regardless if it's orgin is in OCD .. Now to you thats BAD we can't do that . I say you are irresponsible if you don't .. This is where we differ .

And as i said we can agree to disagree ... As long as we do our best to help each other and try to Do no harm then thats all we can do ,,

You have youre opinion i have mine ... And that is all im going to say about this ..