Forfeit the right to worship God?

[dlamberth]

I think Jesus also had a pattern of helping lepers who were very marginalized (maybe they weren't oppressed though IDK)

Oh...back than lepers were very much oppressed.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Oh...back than lepers were very much oppressed.

I always thought Biblical Leprosy was the same as our Leprosy - Hanson's disease caused by Mycobacterium Leprae.

Then to my shock, I read an article by a doctor that combed through all the references and concluded it was probably a number of non-infectious skin diseases, chiefly probably Vitiligo and Psoriasis.
So their isolation in biblical times was chiefly as they were considered defiled and impure, not for quarantine purposes like our leper colonies had been. This is therefore quite an egregious example of people being cast out.

 

[Robban]

I always thought Biblical Leprosy was the same as our Leprosy - Hanson's disease caused by Mycobacterium Leprae.

Then to my shock, I read an article by a doctor that combed through all the references and concluded it was probably a number of non-infectious skin diseases, chiefly probably Vitiligo and Psoriasis.
So their isolation in biblical times was chiefly as they were considered defiled and impure, not for quarantine purposes like our leper colonies had been. This is therefore quite an egregious example of people being cast out.

"In Biblical times there was a spiritual ailment called "tzaraat" leprosy,
one of the oldest triggers for contracting tzaraat was speaking lashan hara, gossip,

once the mistake was rectified the tzaraat healed.

Although gossip is a common human vice,
the consequence of tzaraat was quite sever.

Not only was the leper considered to be impure,
but things he came in contact with would also become impure."

(A clip from an article by Rochel Holzkenner)

 

[Robban]

"In Biblical times there was a spiritual ailment called "tzaraat" leprosy,
one of the oldest triggers for contracting tzaraat was speaking lashan hara, gossip,

once the mistake was rectified the tzaraat healed.

Although gossip is a common human vice,
the consequence of tzaraat was quite sever.

Not only was the leper considered to be impure,
but things he came in contact with would also become impure."

(A clip from an article by Rochel Holzkenner)

"Great minds discuss ideas,
average minds discuss events,
small minds discuss people."

Maimonides says,
"People who habitually gossip will end up denying G-d."

Gossip makes the small mind smaller.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Leprosy became relatively widespread in Europe starting with the crusades, when infected pilgrims brought it back from the East.
It disappeared pretty quickly once the "Outremere" was re-taken by the Arabs, and the little ice age of the early modern period made it much harder for the bacterium to survive in temperate climes.

Interestingly, this led to the founding of "madhouses":

Houses originally used to provide shelter for large numbers of lepers were now abandoned, and thus needed a new purpose. That's when the Europeans started to confine their mentally ill.

 

[cloudyday2]

Interestingly, this led to the founding of "madhouses":

Houses originally used to provide shelter for large numbers of lepers were now abandoned, and thus needed a new purpose. That's when the Europeans started to confine their mentally ill.

That reminds me of another example of Jesus going to the marginalized and oppressed. The demon possessed man who lived in the cemetery cutting himself would have been mentally ill in today's world, and Jesus restored his mind somehow (according to the gospel) ( Mark 5:1-20 )

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Leprosy became relatively widespread in Europe starting with the crusades, when infected pilgrims brought it back from the East.
It disappeared pretty quickly once the "Outremere" was re-taken by the Arabs, and the little ice age of the early modern period made it much harder for the bacterium to survive in temperate climes.

Interestingly, this led to the founding of "madhouses":

Houses originally used to provide shelter for large numbers of lepers were now abandoned, and thus needed a new purpose. That's when the Europeans started to confine their mentally ill.

What is your source for this? This seems fundamentally wrong on a number of points:

Mycobacterium Leprae grows optimally at 20 C, with drop offs precipitously above this tenperature and a more gradual drop off below this. It is also sensitive to light.
This is why Leper colonies were usually located in the Tropics, such as in the Caribbean, Hawaii, etc. Sunshine and warm temperatures helped slow its growth.
In mediaeval Europe it was particularly common in southern Scandinavia.
If the little Ice Age hit, it would likely have increased the area in which M. Leprae grows more readily, and driving people indoors, would further spread the disease (as happened during the Industrial Revolution with Leprosy and its cousin TB). Obviously, Temperate Mediaeval Europe, even if warmer than in later times, would be a more ready incubator of the mycobacterium than the Levant in any case.

There was a precipitous drop in Leprosy in Europe from about the 16th century, but this is usually attributed to increasing human resistance to the mycobacterium and stringent quarantine imposed on known cases. What is your source for attributing it to climate change? This goes against the microbiological factors of the organism in question, as far as I am aware.

It is true the first madhouses only appeared in the high to late middle ages, but monasteries specialising in the mentally-ill greatly preceded this. It was common for a few cells to be set aside for the insane, which was functionally their institution.

 

[Robban]

That reminds me of another example of Jesus going to the marginalized and oppressed. The demon possessed man who lived in the cemetery cutting himself would have been mentally ill in today's world, and Jesus restored his mind somehow (according to the gospel) ( Mark 5:1-20 )

The sages of Talmud mean,
No person can sin unless a spirit of folly, stupidity or insanity enters into him,

So, if we have all sinned, we are all nutcases and the world we live in must be the biggest nuthouse in the universe.

 

[Robban]

 

[Eyes wide Open]

Who are the marginalized and oppressed?

Unless we have them living on our street,
I would guess and say we don,t know,

Recieving reports from here there and everywhere are not reliable,
one has to be living in that place and see it.

Crossing oceans and poking one,s nose into others buisness,
when not knowong who is who is a good way to get oneself killed.

TV is not reliable, you only see what the one holding the camera wants you to see.

Of course there are many who are suffering,
as soon as one starts to dig a little, the more it smells.

One feels utterly powerless,
which is why, help those we can see with our eyes, if and when possible,
Isaiah 58:6-14.

"You will call out to the Lord" and He will answer "Here I am"

The animal kingdom is marginalized and oppressed. Millions killed everyday to meet our taste bud desire. It seems sentience is a uniquely human trait? I think not.

 

[Robban]

The animal kingdom is marginalized and oppressed. Millions killed everyday to meet our taste bud desire. It seems sentience is a uniquely human trait? I think not.

For those who can afford it.

With 33% income tax plus 25% extra on everything one buys and pay, bills, rent etc,

That is 58% before all else,

The price of meat is high too.

So no bad consience here mate,

How many pair of leather shoes are there in the world today?

Shall over 7 billion eat grass?

I cannot do anything about it,

If something can be fixed, no worries, fix it,

If something cannot be fixed, no worries, it cannot be fixed.

 

[dlamberth]

If something can be fixed, no worries, fix it,

If something cannot be fixed, no worries, it cannot be fixed.

Even if it can't be fixed, one need not be a part of it, if they so choose.

 

[Robban]

Even if it can't be fixed, one need not be a part of it, if they so choose.

How many are able to choose,
There are many who not have food even,

 

[Eyes wide Open]

For those who can afford it.

With 33% income tax plus 25% extra on everything one buys and pay, bills, rent etc,

That is 58% before all else,

The price of meat is high too.

So no bad consience here mate,

How many pair of leather shoes are there in the world today?

Shall over 7 billion eat grass?

I cannot do anything about it,

If something can be fixed, no worries, fix it,

If something cannot be fixed, no worries, it cannot be fixed.

You can do what you like, I was pointng out the marginalized and oppressed as you seemed unsure where they were.
Personally veganism fixed it for me.

 

[Robban]

You can do what you like, I was pointng out the marginalized and oppressed as you seemed unsure where they were.
Personally veganism fixed it for me.

So you are a veggy, ok, that,s pretty trendy.

I think it is important how animals are treated while they are alive.

 

[tansy]

Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel argued that we forfeit the right to worship God if we do not stand with the marginalized and the oppressed.

Do you agree?

I don't know where 'the right' to worship comes into it. Worshipping God is surely more of a command than a right.
In any case, my belief is that one has the potential to worship God (in worship's broadest sense) in every aspect of our lives - and frankly, I am pretty certain that none of us worship God perfectly and consistently.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel argued that we forfeit the right to worship God if we do not stand with the marginalized and the oppressed.

Do you agree?

It's not far off from what St. John wrote in his epistle, "Anyone who says they love God but hates their brother is a liar.", St. James says something kind of similar, "With the tongue we bless our God and Father and with it we curse our fellow man created in God's image. My brothers, this should not be."

In that sense it is more that worship of God is hollow when one refuses to stand up with and for the "least of these", if we hate our neighbor, if we refuse to love them and treat them with justice and respect, then we deny God. Jesus ties in two commandments as inseparably linked when He says, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength; and love your neighbor as yourself." Love of God and love of neighbor are, together, the Great Commandment. To say we love God but hate our neighbor is a contradiction; because the act of loving God is inseparably linked to loving our neighbor.

All of these statements are rooted in the basic social justice tradition of the Old Testament, however, wherein regularly the Prophets declared that the worship of the people was repugnant to God because of their mistreatment of the poor and needy.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Eyes wide Open]

So you are a veggy, ok, that,s pretty trendy.

Veganism is a fairly new thing. The discovery of B12 back in the 1950's allowed us to break away fully from all animal consumption, including dairy products. Prior to that many mystics, and saints were vegetarian, perhaps seeing compassion as a central component to their spirituality.

I think it is important how animals are treated while they are alive.

Most of the meat consumed globally is factory farmed, around 90% across all animals. The conditions are horrific. Maybe you you hunt or buy organic?

 

[Robban]

Veganism is a fairly new thing. The discovery of B12 back in the 1950's allowed us to break away fully from all animal consumption, including dairy products. Prior to that many mystics, and saints were vegetarian, perhaps seeing compassion as a central component to their spirituality.





Most of the meat consumed globally is factory farmed, around 90% across all animals. The conditions are horrific. Maybe you you hunt or buy organic?

No, I,m not a big eater, it is difficult buying food,

mostly I eat fish, , fish soup, fishballs (like meatballs but fish)

not just any fish, salmon, herring are favorite, but even cod, pollock.

salmon and herring there is plenty energy, (MSC stamped)

I drink pommegranate juice, works wonders.

Bananas are good too,

Very seldom do I take a chance and buy meat, but not just any meat,

I am not a good cook either so my diet is very simple,

Smoked salmon and pickled herrings, with potatoe sallad, is a sure card.

And gallons of coffee.

 

[Eyes wide Open]

No, I,m not a big eater, it is difficult buying food,

mostly I eat fish, , fish soup, fishballs (like meatballs but fish)

not just any fish, salmon, herring are favorite, but even cod, pollock.

salmon and herring there is plenty energy, (MSC stamped)

I drink pommegranate juice, works wonders.

Bananas are good too,

Very seldom do I take a chance and buy meat, but not just any meat,

I am not a good cook either so my diet is very simple,

Smoked salmon and pickled herrings, with potatoe sallad, is a sure card.

And gallons of coffee.

Haha, I'm a gallon coffee man too!!