Forcing a homosexual to change dorm rooms, discrimination?

[lawtonfogle]

Is the assumption that the reason that males and females have separate changing areas is because of sexual attraction?

I can definitely see your point (I guess it's pretty intuitive), but if you use public changing rooms, you already do so in the presence of some gay men. Have any of them come on to you? Have any made you uncomfortable when all you're doing is trying to get changed or have a shower?

Actually, the few times I am forced to use a public changing room at my university, I go to my own stall and change in there if I have to get naked. If I am just stripping down to undies, I'll do that in the actual changing room.

But are you going to harass a woman because she's naked in front of you? Are you more likely to do so because she's wearing less clothing? I think it's more to do with biological sex than sex. I mean, we all only have to look down to see what we've got. It's surely more comfortable to get changed in front of people of the same sex, regardless of their sexuality. To extrapolate for a moment, women (gay and straight) talk about certain things relating to their shared biology with other women, and men (gay and straight) do the same.

Personally, I'm uncomfortable changing in front of anyone. But the general idea is not that you or me will molest someone, but that some person will. I won't molest a woman I am in a changing room with, or even sexually approach her, but John Doe over there might, so I can understand her being uncomfortable changing in front of males even though I won't do anything.

I'm not saying I agree with separate changing rooms, I agree with a society in which they aren't necessary, where we're less sexualised and where women aren't victimised. Until that happens, and I hope it will happen though I doubt it will be in my lifetime, I can more than see the rationale for separate changing rooms based on biological sex

Lets not forget that males are victimized, and while it is to a lesser extent, due to attitude of society, most don't report it, even more so than women.

A woman who has been victimized is a victimized woman. A man who has been victimized is not longer a man. At least, that is a general attitude by many, at least over where I live.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Actually, the few times I am forced to use a public changing room at my university, I go to my own stall and change in there if I have to get naked. If I am just stripping down to undies, I'll do that in the actual changing room.

Same. Though I very rarely find myself in a changing room these days as since I stopped being forced to exercise I've pretty much stopped.

I'm not just talking about total nudity, however.

Personally, I'm uncomfortable changing in front of anyone. But the general idea is not that you or me will molest someone, but that some person will. I won't molest a woman I am in a changing room with, or even sexually approach her, but John Doe over there might, so I can understand her being uncomfortable changing in front of males even though I won't do anything.

I don't think that's the issue, though. I think it's about nudity rather than sex. Of course, we've socially really sexualised the human body, but nudity is still not just sexual.

The most obvious thing that comes to mind is body issues such as size of stomach, penis, breasts, waist, bottom, body hair etc. Are those really just about our concerns about others' sexual attraction? What I meant to say was that there's generally less of a problem with people of the same sex not because they tend not to be attracted to you but because they have a similar body and understand its variations from a very personal perspective. Given that most adults are sexually active, and most of the rest have had sex/watch pornography, of course we all know what the bodies of the opposite sex look like in a basic way. But not from a personal perspective. There seems to me to be a sort of body empathy, I guess.

If everyone was completely asexual, would we feel comfortable walking around naked? I'm really not sure, but I'd instinctively err slightly on the side of No, there's something more than just sex here.

Lets not forget that males are victimized, and while it is to a lesser extent, due to attitude of society, most don't report it, even more so than women.

A woman who has been victimized is a victimized woman. A man who has been victimized is not longer a man. At least, that is a general attitude by many, at least over where I live.

Of course men are victimised, I was just using the example in response to your post about women feeling victimised.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Same. Though I very rarely find myself in a changing room these days as since I stopped being forced to exercise I've pretty much stopped.

I'm not just talking about total nudity, however.

I don't think that's the issue, though. I think it's about nudity rather than sex. Of course, we've socially really sexualised the human body, but nudity is still not just sexual.

Nudity is not inherently sexual, but for anyone who has gone through a socialization anything like mine, nudity is sexual by the time you are an adult. Perhaps we should all spend 4 years in a nudist colony? It would help many Americans get over our hang ups related to nudity.

The most obvious thing that comes to mind is body issues such as size of stomach, penis, breasts, waist, bottom, body hair etc. Are those really just about our concerns about others' sexual attraction? What I meant to say was that there's generally less of a problem with people of the same sex not because they tend not to be attracted to you but because they have a similar body and understand its variations from a very personal perspective. Given that most adults are sexually active, and most of the rest have had sex/watch pornography, of course we all know what the bodies of the opposite sex look like in a basic way. But not from a personal perspective. There seems to me to be a sort of body empathy, I guess.

In all honesty, almost no one I know, male or female, has a body like mine. My body is more similar to some females I know than males, granted that is a male who is the closest you can look like a skeleton without being anorexic.

If everyone was completely asexual, would we feel comfortable walking around naked? I'm really not sure, but I'd instinctively err slightly on the side of No, there's something more than just sex here.

But I think sex has a huge role, not because it is inherently there, but because our society (or at least my society as you may live in a much more open place) forces it to.

Of course men are victimised, I was just using the example in response to your post about women feeling victimised.

Ok.

 

[annrobert]

Ok, so here is a story of something which happened back when I was in high school. I happened to spend a the last few years of my high school at a magnet school which was live in. Thus we had dorm rooms. But since (almost) all of us were minors, to avoid any sex crime related issues, males and females were kept in two separate dormitories.

Now, it just so happened that a female, during the school year, came out as being homosexual. I missed this event myself (was too focused on studies, and it was mostly kept hush hush), but learned of it years later from a friend. After she came out, she was assigned to a dorm room by herself.

Now, I do not know if she requested this change, if they asked her to make this change and she agreed, or if this change was forced. So my question is this, is it discrimination?

If she had been forced to move into a dorm room alone, would this constitute discrimination?

Had her roommate been bisexual/homosexual as well, they could have formed a sexual relationship, which considering their status as minors, could have made for very negative publicity for the school (parents in general would not want to send their children off to school that allows them to have sex), not to mention possible legal troubles (they were both minors).

Also, her roommate could have felt uncomfortable with the situation. I am pretty sure many female children would feel uncomfortable rooming with a male, especially one she had not attraction to but whom may or may not have had attraction to her.

Now, there is also a chance that both of them would have been okay rooming together (as I said, I don't know, I didn't here about this till much later). Yet, even if they both would have been okay with it, would the risk of the either of the previous two situations, especially the first, justified the administration requiring her to move to a separate room? The administration would not let a male and female room together, even if they both agreed to it and said nothing sexual would happen. The administration didn't even allow a male to be inside a females room with the door close (or a female inside a males room), and males/females were only allowed to visit each other room on Saturday nights, and there was constant monitoring by adults to make sure nothing sexual happened.

So given all this, would forcing her to move to her own room be discrimination?

A person may not want someone watching them undress if that person is attracted to their particular gender.It may make them very uncomfortable.

 

[HannahBanana]

A person may not want someone watching them undress if that person is attracted to their particular gender.It may make them very uncomfortable.

Since when is it possible to be attracted to an entire gender? Like it or not, homosexuals/bisexuals are not attracted to every single same-gendered person.

Oh, and I felt like adding something (this part isn't just to you, annrobert, it's to everyone). The fear of my roommate kicking me out of our room (or moving out of the room herself) if I come out of the closet is the one reason I feel like I have to stay in the closet around her (after all, she's the one real friend at college I actually have), and I find it horrendous that some people seem to think it's perfectly fine for me to have to pretend to be someone I'm not (a straight person, in other words) around my roommate. This is 2010, I shouldn't have to remain in the closet for any reason anymore. So please stop supporting mindsets that cause me to have to remain in the closet!

 

[lawtonfogle]

Since when is it possible to be attracted to an entire gender? Like it or not, homosexuals/bisexuals are not attracted to every single same-gendered person.

But it is not that there is attraction, but the possibility of attraction.

Oh, and I felt like adding something (this part isn't just to you, annrobert, it's to everyone). The fear of my roommate kicking me out of our room (or moving out of the room herself) if I come out of the closet is the one reason I feel like I have to stay in the closet around her (after all, she's the one real friend at college I actually have), and I find it horrendous that some people seem to think it's perfectly fine for me to have to pretend to be someone I'm not (a straight person, in other words) around my roommate. This is 2010, I shouldn't have to remain in the closet for any reason anymore. So please stop supporting mindsets that cause me to have to remain in the closet!

Hey, as long as people are going to support males and females being separate, homosexuals will be treated differently in matters where males and females are given separate rules (even in the cases where the rules are identical without respect to gender, as it is with rooms).

As long as society says boys and girls should be separated because of the CHANCE of sexual attraction, then homosexuals will have to be separated from their own sex, and bisexuals will have to be separated from everyone.

Of course, in places (e.g. college dorms) that do not force separate males and females, this will not happen. Until we, as a society at large, get over our hang ups about sex. And as to the original topic of this thread, where we were dealing with minors, we will also have to get over our hang ups with minors having sex with each other. Otherwise, separating bisexuals from the children certain situations (e.g. rooming together)) is just the logical conclusion of saying that minors who may be sexually attracted should not be allowed in that situation (e.g. rooming together).

As to your personal case, I would be pretty sure that your campus has a GSA or similar organization, which should be willing to help you find someone who will not mind the fact that you are bisexual.