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Forbidden Archeology: Beyond Creation vs. Evolution

Dharma Flower

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I’ve come to the realization that, as a Buddhist, I have nothing to gain from believing in the mainstream theory of evolution. Buddhist teaching and natural science follow two radically different perspectives which they bring in evaluating the physical evidence.

Buddhism, like Hinduism, traditionally teaches that, rather than evolving from lower life forms, we instead devolved from higher beings. In the Agganna Sutta, the Buddha describes how the first humans who appeared on earth were originally beings of light from a higher realm, who came down to this world because they were tempted by its sensual pleasures like food:
http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/AggannaSutta.pdf

Originally, the people in this world still had their god-like powers, like the ability to fly, and they were still of a non-material form, but over time, as humans became more and more attached to sensuality, we became more and more physical, until we lost our spiritual abilities, and assumed the human form we have today.

This Buddhist understanding is sort of a middle ground between Biblical creationism, which says that a God created everything in the universe 6,000 years ago, and Darwinian evolution, which says that everything originated due to chance chemical processes. In the Buddhist perspective, it’s the outworking of karma which explains the origin of life:
http://ddmbachicago.org/where-did-the-universe-and-life-come-from/

If humans devolved from higher beings, rather than evolving from lower species, then we should expect to find the remains of humans from millions of years before they are supposed to have existed under the evolutionary timeline, just as a reading of the Hindu and Buddhist scriptures would predict.

In Forbidden Archeology, Michael Cremo and Richard Thompson documented dozens of archeological discoveries, human fossils and tools found millions of years lower in the fossil record than expected. The book explains that, because these evidences challenged the current paradigm, they were either explained away or suppressed:
http://www.krishnapath.org/library/vedic-science/hidden-history-of-the-human-race-free-download/

Here is one example of an archaeological discovery which challenges the Darwinian view, instead fitting the ancient Buddhist and Hindu interpretations:
http://phys.org/news/2015-05-oldest-known-stone-tools-pre-date-homo.html

If we devolved from higher beings, as the Buddha taught, then our purpose on this earth is clear, to find the enlightenment which rescues us from this degenerated state. We are amnesiac spiritual beings having a human experience, in need of re-connecting with the higher consciousness from which we came.

The traditional Buddhist understanding may conflict with modern science, but a committed Buddhist might decide to believe the Buddha’s words over modern science, especially when dealing with prehistory, before any of us were around to witness what really happened.

As the philosopher of science Thomas Kuhn explained, scientists are not purely objective, instead they interpret the data based on whatever prevailing theories will allow. Everyone must evaluate the evidence for themselves and arrive at their own conclusions:

 
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Kenny'sID

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I’ve come to the realization that, as a Buddhist, I have nothing to gain from believing in the mainstream theory of evolution.

As a Christian, me too, and quit to the contrary. How humiliating it would be to admit I believed in such rubbish.
 
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Dharma Flower

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I am not here to change anyone's mind or to cause any controversy regarding religious beliefs or human origins. I am just presenting one possible perspective, one possible interpretation of the available evidence.

At the time when Forbidden Archeology was first published, it was reviewed in mainstream science publications, in which even detractors of the book admitted that it had been thoroughly researched and well-written.
 
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Winken

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I’ve come to the realization that, as a Buddhist, I have nothing to gain from believing in the mainstream theory of evolution. Buddhist teaching and natural science follow two radically different perspectives which they bring in evaluating the physical evidence.

Buddhism, like Hinduism, traditionally teaches that, rather than evolving from lower life forms, we instead devolved from higher beings. In the Agganna Sutta, the Buddha describes how the first humans who appeared on earth were originally beings of light from a higher realm, who came down to this world because they were tempted by its sensual pleasures like food:
http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/AggannaSutta.pdf

Originally, the people in this world still had their god-like powers, like the ability to fly, and they were still of a non-material form, but over time, as humans became more and more attached to sensuality, we became more and more physical, until we lost our spiritual abilities, and assumed the human form we have today.

This Buddhist understanding is sort of a middle ground between Biblical creationism, which says that a God created everything in the universe 6,000 years ago, and Darwinian evolution, which says that everything originated due to chance chemical processes. In the Buddhist perspective, it’s the outworking of karma which explains the origin of life:
http://ddmbachicago.org/where-did-the-universe-and-life-come-from/

If humans devolved from higher beings, rather than evolving from lower species, then we should expect to find the remains of humans from millions of years before they are supposed to have existed under the evolutionary timeline, just as a reading of the Hindu and Buddhist scriptures would predict.

In Forbidden Archeology, Michael Cremo and Richard Thompson documented dozens of archeological discoveries, human fossils and tools found millions of years lower in the fossil record than expected. The book explains that, because these evidences challenged the current paradigm, they were either explained away or suppressed:
http://www.krishnapath.org/library/vedic-science/hidden-history-of-the-human-race-free-download/

Here is one example of an archaeological discovery which challenges the Darwinian view, instead fitting the ancient Buddhist and Hindu interpretations:
http://phys.org/news/2015-05-oldest-known-stone-tools-pre-date-homo.html

If we devolved from higher beings, as the Buddha taught, then our purpose on this earth is clear, to find the enlightenment which rescues us from this degenerated state. We are amnesiac spiritual beings having a human experience, in need of re-connecting with the higher consciousness from which we came.

The traditional Buddhist understanding may conflict with modern science, but a committed Buddhist might decide to believe the Buddha’s words over modern science, especially when dealing with prehistory, before any of us were around to witness what really happened.

As the philosopher of science Thomas Kuhn explained, scientists are not purely objective, instead they interpret the data based on whatever prevailing theories will allow. Everyone must evaluate the evidence for themselves and arrive at their own conclusions:


Was Buddha a created being?
 
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Gene2memE

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Buddhism, like Hinduism, traditionally teaches that, rather than evolving from lower life forms, we instead devolved from higher beings.

It's a lovely idea, and there's just one problem with it: there is no evidence of anything like "higher beings".

Also, "lower life forms" is a vast misinterpretation of evolutionary biology. There's no lower, or higher, in evolution. There is no ladder or scale to rank things in evolution.

In the Agganna Sutta, the Buddha describes how the first humans who appeared on earth were originally beings of light from a higher realm, who came down to this world because they were tempted by its sensual pleasures like food:
http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf/AggannaSutta.pdf

Originally, the people in this world still had their god-like powers, like the ability to fly, and they were still of a non-material form, but over time, as humans became more and more attached to sensuality, we became more and more physical, until we lost our spiritual abilities, and assumed the human form we have today.

Again, lovely, poetic ideas, but these are also ideas without a single piece of evidential support.

In Forbidden Archeology, Michael Cremo and Richard Thompson documented dozens of archeological discoveries, human fossils and tools found millions of years lower in the fossil record than expected. The book explains that, because these evidences challenged the current paradigm, they were either explained away or suppressed:
http://www.krishnapath.org/library/vedic-science/hidden-history-of-the-human-race-free-download/

Cremo and Thompson took long discredited and/or outright fraudulent findings, claimed that the original descriptions were accurate and then claimed that everyone that disagreed these descriptions were victims of confirmation bias. Even when confronted with fresh radio-carbon and paleomegnetic dating evidence, they continued to cling to their original conclusions. See the examples of the Reck skeleton, Laetoli footprints, Castenedolo skull and the 'Java Man' homo erectus discoveries.

Here is one example of an archaeological discovery which challenges the Darwinian view, instead fitting the ancient Buddhist and Hindu interpretations:
http://phys.org/news/2015-05-oldest-known-stone-tools-pre-date-homo.html
http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http:...731/human-origins-according-to-the-buddha&m=1

This in no way challenges evolutionary biology. What it does suggest is that archaic hominins were tool users, specifically knapped stone.
 
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Subduction Zone

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well, a lot of the ancient wonders if my memory is right that scientists still don't know how they were made. Like the ancient pyramids, and a lot of megalithic monuments.

What makes you think that the pyramids were that difficult to build? A valid source would hlep a bit when you make such a claim.

 
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wayfaring man

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Everyone must evaluate the evidence for themselves and arrive at their own conclusions:

Personally, I typically find life to be challenging enough in the here and now, and do therefore generally conclude that what may, or may not have occured thousands, or millions, or billions, or infinitely long ago to be (for the most part) beyond the current scope of certainty.

There is however a type of seduction that does attempt to 'reveal deep dark mysteries', and give mortal man an inflated sense of certain knowledge when / where certainty does not practically / realistically exist.

Not that it's wrong to ponder, or have a theory, or even a hope / belief...but to think we know such things for sure, which are so far beyond us - would seem to inicate a premature conclusion at best.

Logically we are created beings, by a highly intelligent Designer / Creator...for we are far too complex and delicately balanced to have 'sprung up' out of happenstance.

The idea that some are fallen from spirit to flesh, sounds more applicable to the fallen angels than to mankind. Some may think we are one and the same...but that doesn't really make much sense, or fit with Scripture. Some may believe we are some sort of hybrids, based rather loosely on - Genesis 6:4 To which I say - perhaps.

In these types of things - it appears one of the main dangers is in thinking we know things we really don't.

Psalms 131:1 + Colossians 2:18
 
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Subduction Zone

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Personally, I typically find life to be challenging enough in the here and now, and do therefore generally conclude that what may, or may not have occured thousands, or millions, or billions, or infinitely long ago to be (for the most part) beyond the current scope of certainty.

But yet you rely on that knowledge every day.

There is however a type of seduction that does attempt to 'reveal deep dark mysteries', and give mortal man an inflated sense of certain knowledge when / where certainty does not practically / realistically exist.

This looks like a claim that you can't even begin to support.

Not that it's wrong to ponder, or have a theory, or even a hope / belief...but to think we know such things for sure, which are so far beyond us - would seem to inicate a premature conclusion at best.

Logically we are created beings, by a highly intelligent Designer / Creator...for we are far too complex and delicately balanced to have 'sprung up' out of happenstance.

Sorry, you do not seem to understand what logic is or how we know that man evolved either. At best you have an argument from ignorance fallacy.

The idea that some are fallen from spirit to flesh, sounds more applicable to the fallen angels than to mankind. Some may think we are one and the same...but that doesn't really make much sense, or fit with Scripture. Some may believe we are some sort of hybrids, based rather loosely on - Genesis 6:4 To which I say - perhaps.

That is only your personal prejudice speaking to you. Can you support this claim with valid evidence?

In these types of things - it appears one of the main dangers is in thinking we know things we really don't.

Psalms 131:1 + Colossians 2:18

Quoting from the Bible does not help your case in this part of the forum very much at all. Reliable evidence is your best weapon in a debate here.
 
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wayfaring man

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According to the Buddhist teaching, there is no Creator God. Instead, the universe has always existed in some form.

What if the 'form' the universe existed in was 'without form and void'. Genesis 1:2

Could something in such a state give itself form and substance ?

Does the hole in a tooth fill itself in ?

Does the empty sink fill it's own basin ?

Nay, it's takes another - one who has power over that which is 'without form and void'. One who is with form and inviolate. a.k.a God, The Creator, The Great Spirit, etc.
 
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pat34lee

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What makes you think that the pyramids were that difficult to build? A valid source would hlep a bit when you make such a claim.

The fact that we probably couldn't duplicate the precision of the Great Pyramid today should tell you something. Look at the following page and see some of the tools they supposedly used and the end products that would take computer guided tools with diamond or carbide cutters today.
Large Stone Boxes In Ancient Egypt: Not Made As Tombs - Hidden Inca Tours

Or try googling something like "Proof of ancient stoneworking technology."
 
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wayfaring man

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But yet you rely on that knowledge every day.



This looks like a claim that you can't even begin to support.



Sorry, you do not seem to understand what logic is or how we know that man evolved either. At best you have an argument from ignorance fallacy.



That is only your personal prejudice speaking to you. Can you support this claim with valid evidence?



Quoting from the Bible does not help your case in this part of the forum very much at all. Reliable evidence is your best weapon in a debate here.

Your claims are also subjective, therefore your finding fault is hypocritical.
 
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Subduction Zone

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The fact that we probably couldn't duplicate the precision of the Great Pyramid today should tell you something. Look at the following page and see some of the tools they supposedly used and the end products that would take computer guided tools with diamond or carbide cutters today.
Large Stone Boxes In Ancient Egypt: Not Made As Tombs - Hidden Inca Tours

Or try googling something like "Proof of ancient stoneworking technology."
I asked for a reliable source. You gave me garbage. Can you support your claims with a reliable source?
 
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Subduction Zone

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Your claims are also subjective, therefore your finding fault is hypocritical.

Wrong again. My claims are testable and confirmable. That beats unsupported claims any day of the week.
 
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AvgJoe

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According to the Buddhist teaching, there is no Creator God. Instead, the universe has always existed in some form.

To date, all key scientific and philosophical evidence points away from an eternal universe and toward an eternal Creator. From a scientific standpoint, honest scientists admit the universe had a beginning, and whatever has a beginning is not eternal. In other words, whatever has a beginning has a cause, and if the universe had a beginning, it had a cause. The fact that the universe had a beginning is underscored by evidence such as the second law of thermodynamics, the radiation echo of the big bang discovered in the early 1900s, the fact that the universe is expanding and can be traced back to a singular beginning, and Einstein’s theory of relativity. All prove the universe is not eternal.
 
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Dharma Flower

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I am not going to get into a heated debate with you, since I am not trying to convince anyone to my religious belief, but I will respond to some of your points, since you seem friendly.

Also, "lower life forms" is a vast misinterpretation of evolutionary biology. There's no lower, or higher, in evolution. There is no ladder or scale to rank things in evolution.

It's a figure of speech that even mainstream scientists use in their literature from time to time. All living beings have Buddha-nature, and therefore they are all equal in that sense. There's always a chance that your cat or your goat was your mother in a past life. Other species are only "lower" in the sense of possessing lower intelligence compared to ourselves.

Cremo and Thompson took long discredited and/or outright fraudulent findings, claimed that the original descriptions were accurate and then claimed that everyone that disagreed these descriptions were victims of confirmation bias. Even when confronted with fresh radio-carbon and paleomegnetic dating evidence, they continued to cling to their original conclusions. See the examples of the Reck skeleton, Laetoli footprints, Castenedolo skull and the 'Java Man' homo erectus discoveries.

Forbidden Archeology has about 900 pages of documented evidence. Unless you've read it for yourself, I will assume that you are just passing along second-hand opinions from what others have said regarding the book. In the meantime, there is a condensed version freely available online:
The Hidden History of the Human Race free download - Krishna Path

In the first pages of the book, one can see some of the praise and recognition that Forbidden Archeology received from mainstream sources.

This in no way challenges evolutionary biology. What it does suggest is that archaic hominins were tool users, specifically knapped stone.

Actually, that depends on one's interpretation. Please let me explain.

Based on the discovery of these stone tools, mainstream scientists have re-worked their understanding of Australopithecines, which they didn't previously believe possessed the ability to create and make use of these tools.

One might as well, based on the same discovery of stone tools, believe that modern humans appeared in the world millions of years sooner than mainstream science currently accepts. Please let me know if I am not making this point clearly.
 
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Dharma Flower

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well, a lot of the ancient wonders if my memory is right that scientists still don't know how they were made. Like the ancient pyramids, and a lot of megalithic monuments.

Yes, that is correct. The inventions that Forbidden Archeology mostly focuses on, however, are stone tools and other primitive objects found in the fossil record millions of years before mainstream science would predict.
 
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