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Call it what you will, they were warned of the consequences but that didn't answer my question. Do you think God was wrong in His treatment?It was punishment, not discipline. This is the cursing He promised to bring on His people for being obedient.
God there may have been the Holy Spirit that does not forgive blasphemy. Apparently the Father is the example we're supposed to follow. Ezekiel relayed similar messages, so it wasn't just Jeremiah.So the Lord said to me, “Do not pray for the welfare of this people. When they fast, I am not going to listen to their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and grain offering, I am not going to accept them. Rather I am going to make an end of them by the sword, famine and pestilence.”
— Jeremiah 14:11-12
God commanded Jeremiah to not pray for the people. That violates what I’ve seen some argue as God being all-loving.
I’m calling it what it was. It’s all throughout the book. And there’s a huge difference. And no, God was not wrong.Call it what you will, they were warned of the consequences but that didn't answer my question. Do you think God was wrong in His treatment?
That the idea that God loves everyone equally and tries to save everyone is not found in scripture as a whole.Then what is it exactly that you are trying to say?
Aha! Well that is not what I was getting from your OP so I'm glad I persisted in asking. I thought you were trying to say God is not all good. I agree God does not love all equally. "Equally" being the operative word in the equation. We all begin from an equal platform as God loves all in that He seeks only the highest and best for us without respect to who or what we are (or may become) but there are consequences to rejecting Him. I think sometimes people confuse the statement "God is Love" to mean "God is Affectionate".That the idea that God loves everyone equally and tries to save everyone is not found in scripture as a whole.
The equal platform is that we are all born in sin and deserve eternal punishment.Aha! Well that is not what I was getting from your OP so I'm glad I persisted in asking. I thought you were trying to say God is not all good. I agree God does not love all equally. "Equally" being the operative word in the equation. We all begin from an equal platform as God loves all in that He seeks only the highest and best for us without respect to who or what we are (or may become) but there are consequences to rejecting Him. I think sometimes people confuse the statement "God is Love" to mean "God is Affectionate".
I don't believe we can say we "deserve" eternal punishment as it was Adam's sin that brought us into this position. It is true however that even if by some miracle we never committed any personal sin of our own, without God's grace, we would still end up in eternal torment. Ignorance is not an excuse.The equal platform is that we are all born in sin and deserve eternal punishment.
Yes.Ah, just some loving discipline like death, famine and captivity.
We deserve eternal punishment because of imputed sin. We receive an eternal reward because of imputed righteousness. This is Romans 5.I don't believe we can say we "deserve" eternal punishment as it was Adam's sin that brought us into this position. It is true however that even if by some miracle we never committed any personal sin of our own, without God's grace, we would still end up in eternal torment. Ignorance is not an excuse.
Obviously though, because we are born dead spiritually, it is guaranteed we will sin and warrant punishment.
The only way one could truly say we "deserve" eternal punishment is if we were all born evil but we are not, we are born sinners. We are born amoral when it comes to good and evil.
The wages of sin is spiritual death, not eternal punishment.
It is, actually.Yes.
death is not bad in and of itself is it?
The wages of sin is spiritual death not the lake of fire. We are not born into the position of deserving the lake of fire and it was Adam's sin which dragged us all into spiritual death not any of our personal sins.We deserve eternal punishment because of imputed sin. We receive an eternal reward because of imputed righteousness. This is Romans 5.
Every sin is a rejection of God. So everyone deserves eternal punishment.The wages of sin is spiritual death not the lake of fire. We are not born into the position of deserving the lake of fire and it was Adam's sin which dragged us all into spiritual death not any of our personal sins.
The only way to actually deserve the lake of fire is to reject God and His Christ. That doesn't alter the fact, if not for God's grace, we would have not avoided the lake of fire but we would have had no understanding as to why we ended up there. As it stands now, those who end up in the lake will know exactly why they are there.
Just as a point of clarification, when you say deserve, I understand it to mean something one has earned.
Death is the way the saved get to go home to their rest and the lost quit doing bad stuff, so how is that "bad"?It is, actually.
Sin is the result of rejecting God. When one's own desire is given precedence over the word of God then one will sin.Every sin is a rejection of God. So everyone deserves eternal punishment.
Because death is an enemy, and the last enemy Christ will defeat before He returns.Death is the way the saved get to go home to their rest and the lost quit doing bad stuff, so how is that "bad"?
You’ve made the act of rejecting God to be unsinful.Sin is the result of rejecting God. When one's own desire is given precedence over the word of God then one will sin.
James 1:15
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
We are not condemned (to the lake of fire) because we are sinners, we are condemned because we reject God. We are born spiritually dead. This means we do not know God and have no capacity to know Him. You cannot reject what you do not know. The Lord begins His work of revealing Himself with creation (Rom.1:18-21) and continues to draw those who learn from Him to the Christ. (Jn.6:44&45)
No idea how you work that out. The scripture tells us the act of sin results from putting our desires first (Jms.1:15) and in that process we reject God's truth. We see this clearly in the Garden. We are not born rejecting God in our soul. The sin nature resides in the flesh. (Rom.7:23) This is due to our inheritance from Adam. It is only when the mind is set on the flesh that we are led astray into unrighteousness. But, as I said before, because we are born spiritually dead it is guaranteed we will be led astray and sin.You’ve made the act of rejecting God to be unsinful.
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