For the sake of argument, let's say God exists

[Nathan Poe]

Scientists cannot explain the human "will", they can only explain the effects it has on the brain. They see the effects it has on the brain, but not the cause. The "will" works through the brain but it is independent of the brain. This is why scientists have no explanation for the human "will", just as they have none for God's "will".

You just love making stuff up, don't you?

The human "will" as you call it can be easily effected by such trivial physical things such as drugs, alcohol, and head trauma -- all of which effect the brain's chemical balance.

Independent of the brain, you say? Try again.

 

[sandwiches]

Scientists cannot explain the human "will", they can only explain the effects it has on the brain. They see the effects it has on the brain, but not the cause. The "will" works through the brain but it is independent of the brain. This is why scientists have no explanation for the human "will", just as they have none for God's "will".

Human will is not independent of the brain any more than an operating system is independent of a computer. They're both the results of the processes of their respective machines.

 

[Ar Cosc]

Saying that the human mind is magic that just happens to work through the brain is like saying the human circulatory system is magic that just happens to work through the heart

 

[wensdee]

And creationists wonder why con men love creationists.

 

[Hespera]

Saying that the human mind is magic that just happens to work through the brain is like saying the human circulatory system is magic that just happens to work through the heart

That is essentially how all of physiology was once thought to work.

They have retreated to the innermost functions of the human mind now, for a lsta stand.

 

[Hespera]

And creationists wonder why con men love creationists.

psst! wanna buy a authentic Paluxy man track?

 

[Gracchus]

psst! wanna buy a authentic Paluxy man track?

Get your Holy Water, a blend from the well of Zam Zam, the pool of Siloam, the Ganges river, and spring at Lourdes! (For a slight addtional charge we will add three drops passed by the Dalai Lama.)

 

[Doveaman]

Here is a physical structure, with chemical and electrical activity. When those activities cease, the "will" ceases too. Like a car.

There is no evidence that those chemical/electrical activities create urgings, cravings, wants and desires.

The chemical/electrical activities are the means through which the urgings, cravings, wants and desires are transmitted, not created.

 

[Doveaman]

The human "will" as you call it can be easily effected by such trivial physical things such as drugs, alcohol, and head trauma -- all of which effect the brain's chemical balance.

Independent of the brain, you say?

Yes, independence in the sense that the “will” works through the brain so that we can become aware of it and act in response to it.

The brain is simply a communication pathway between the nonphysical “will” and the physical "body". If the brain is damaged then the communication pathway is disrupted which can cause us to think and act unstable.

 

[Doveaman]

Human will is not independent of the brain any more than an operating system is independent of a computer. They're both the results of the processes of their respective machines.

The operating system is software (analogous to the nonphysical "will") and the computer is the hardware ((analogous to the physical "body").

 

[Doveaman]

Saying that the human mind is magic that just happens to work through the brain is like saying the human circulatory system is magic that just happens to work through the heart

If you can provide substantial evidence that the human "will" is physical I would be happy to have a cup.

 

[sandwiches]

If you can provide substantial evidence that the human "will" is physical I would be happy to have a cup.

If you have evidence that human will is nonphysical I'd love to see it, considering that we've never seen anything nonphysical.

 

[Ar Cosc]

If you can provide substantial evidence that the human "will" is physical I would be happy to have a cup.

Can you give me a cup of your faith?

I suppose you must be an atheist then!

 

[Hespera]

There is no evidence that those chemical/electrical activities create urgings, cravings, wants and desires.

The chemical/electrical activities are the means through which the urgings, cravings, wants and desires are transmitted, not created.

Id be seriously surprised if anyone doing neural research agreed, but...

Two questions.

Are you capable of admitting that there is no evidence for your statement in bold there.

do you think that earthworms and amoeba also have 'will" of your nonphysical sort.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Yes, independence in the sense that the “will” works through the brain so that we can become aware of it and act in response to it.

The brain is simply a communication pathway between the nonphysical “will” and the physical "body". If the brain is damaged then the communication pathway is disrupted which can cause us to think and act unstable.

OR -- the brain generates energy in a particular pattern whcih you choose to call "will."

 

[Doveaman]

If you have evidence that human will is nonphysical I'd love to see it,

Does this mean you have no evidence of it being physical?

I do know that the urgings, cravings, wants and desires created from the human "will" are all nonphysical but yet they have a real effect on our brain and body.

considering that we've never seen anything nonphysical.

Just like we've never seen the human "will", we only experience it just as the Christian experience God’s "will".

 

[Doveaman]

Can you give me a cup of your faith?

Nope, just as you cannot give me a cup of your human "will". I can only observe its effects on your brain and body just as you can only observe the effects of God’s “will” on the brain and body of the Christian.

 

[Doveaman]

Id be seriously surprised if anyone doing neural research agreed, but...

Maybe they do. Maybe they don’t. Do you have any research papers on the study of the human “will”?

Two questions.

Are you capable of admitting that there is no evidence for your statement in bold there.

I think it’s a safe assumption for the moment considering that the human “will” has been experienced but never physically detected apart from its effects on the human brain and body.

Since the human "will" has never been physically detected but has an effect on the human body we can assume that its effect on the human body is achieved through the chemical/electrical activities of the human brain.

do you think that earthworms and amoeba also have 'will" of your nonphysical sort.

I don’t have a clue. I’m only speaking of man created in God’s image. Only man has a human “will” that is somewhat similar in nature to God’s divine “will”. And we are all faced with the freedom of “will” to choose to follow God’s “will” or our own human “will”.

This is why for the Christian, “he does not live the rest of his earthly life for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God.” - 1 Peter 4:2.

 

[Doveaman]

OR -- the brain generates energy in a particular pattern whcih you choose to call "will."

OR -- you choose to have it backwards. Why would the brain generate a particular output unless it received a particular input?

It makes more sense that the human brain would receive a particular input from the human “will” which generates a particular energy pattern output in the brain which the human body then responds to.

The nonphysical desire of the human “will” generates a particular energy pattern in the human brain. This energy pattern then ‘drives’ the human body to achieve the desire of the human “will”.

We act in our body in response to our brain in accordance with our “will”.

 

[sandwiches]

Does this mean you have no evidence of it being physical?

I do know that the urgings, cravings, wants and desires created from the human "will" are all nonphysical, but yet they have a real effect on our brain and body.

We have evidence that, like every single other known process, "human will" emerges from physical components. So, where's your evidence that it's nonphysical that contradicts everything we know of processes, electrical signal, chemistry, etc?

Just like we've never seen the human "will", we only experience it just as the Christian experience God’s "will".

Yes, an human will comes from physical components. What physical components does God emerge from?