For the sake of argument, let's say God exists

[Lion Hearted Man]

Animals do not have a human "will".

I wouldn't go as far as to call it "animal will" since I don't know how animals think. But I do believe there is a nonphysical component to the brain of the animals Hespera described.

We know a lot more about the brain than you think we do. There is no reason to believe any of it is nonphysical.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

It wasn't rhetorical, however you gave me an answer either way so it doesn't really matter.

Since my beliefs line up with the Christian God, then yes I think a sense of morality comes from the Bible.

Cultures don't evolve, they change. I don't believe in evolution, and no one can prove it so that's contradicting to what you have told me about beliefs. Evolution is a belief.

Been there, done that. It's the greatest show on earn, and the only game in town.

 

[Hespera]

Maybe they don’t know because they are relying on science to explain something nonphysical, so it makes sense they wouldn’t know.
It supports my argument more than it does yours.
It is a valid assumption since you cannot detect the “will” in the brain.
What you have are effects, not cause.

Can you or anyone re-create the human "will”? or a machine, perhaps, that can intentionally choose to act contrary to the way it was designed to act? a machine like this one?

This would show that you at least have an idea of what’s going on in the human brain regarding the human “will”.
I have no reason to believe there isn’t a nonphysical component to the brain of those animals you described. Call it “animal will” if you like, because it’s certainly not human.
It’s good to have a solid reference point in life to remind us of who we are and not think we are mere animals working off of mere electricity.
Evil is not just a matter of committing heinous crimes, it’s also a matter of not following God’s “will”.

There are some very “nice” people out there (perhaps you are one of them) who do not follow God’s “will”, and that’s not good enough.

From God’s perspective, “all our righteous acts are like filthy rags” - Isa 64:6.

you is one terribly confused bird.

 

[Greg1234]

Maybe they don’t know because they are relying on science to explain something nonphysical, so it makes sense they wouldn’t know.

I would say that will overlaps as it is also a property of the physical mind. The material mind with its own will is heavily inclined towards materialistic principles based on cause and effect and attraction. When it is exalted or left unchecked, it takes over, overcomes, and the person becomes what is referred to as a slave not only to the physical mind, but also its will. It's a carnal type of blissfulness, or the "wide path", and is primarily what Peter was talking about when he said,

These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
​

 

[SkyWriting]

Originally Posted by SkyWriting

The Bible has no lies in it so the God of the Bible won out.
​

Now that's funny.

It is an ongoing process of discovery. Not something my own church believes.

 

[SkyWriting]

But there's not really any behaviour demonstrated by humans that is not demonstrated by animals to some degree. We can see the neurons firing in the brain when someone is hungry, to create the "will" to find food, or the "will" to find a mate when they are fertile. There's no need for anything nonphysical, and no evidence that such a thing exists.

Common ancestor? Maybe.
A Human Ancestor for the Apes? « Anthropology.net

Clearly there is no truth in that statement. The "need" for a nonphysical source of life could not be better documented.

Existence is sufficient proof that there was a first cause.
Steven Hawking covered this.

 

[sandwiches]

Common ancestor? Maybe.
A Human Ancestor for the Apes? « Anthropology.net

Clearly there is no truth in that statement. The "need" for a nonphysical source of life could not be better documented.

Existence is sufficient proof that there was a first cause.
Steven Hawking covered this.

It's possible there was a physical first cause. No evidence of anything ever being created by nonphysical means exists.

 

[Doveaman]

But there's not really any behaviour demonstrated by humans that is not demonstrated by animals to some degree.

Humans are capable of having the “will” to destroy all life on the planet simply by the press of a few buttons. What animal do you know of that is capable of having the “will” to do such a thing?

We can see the neurons firing in the brain when someone is hungry, to create the "will" to find food, or the "will" to find a mate when they are fertile.

You see neurons firing in the brain in response to hunger and fertility, but the “will” to find food or a mate is not caused by those neurons firing in the brain, this is why we can “will” ourselves to choose not to find food or a mate despite the hunger and fertility.

There's no need for anything nonphysical, and no evidence that such a thing exists.

My claim is that the human “will” is nonphysical and there is no evidence for it apart from our experience of it in our minds and its effects on our brain and body.

It is for you to falsify my claim by showing that the human “will” is physical in nature or is generated by a physical process.

God’s “will”, which is also nonphysical, works similarly within the Christian’s mind; we cannot determine the evidence for God’s “will” apart from the experience of it in the Christian’s mind and its effects on the Christian’s brain and body, “For it is God who works in you to will and to do according to His good purpose.” - Phil 2:13

 

[Doveaman]

We know a lot more about the brain than you think we do. There is no reason to believe any of it is nonphysical.

Well, no one is denying that you know some things, nor is anyone claiming that a part of the brain is nonphysical. The claim is that there is more to the human mind than just a physical brain and that there is no conclusive evidence that the human “will” is physical in nature or is generated by a physical process. You are yet to demonstrate this.

 

[Doveaman]

you is one terribly confused bird.

Does this mean you have conceded?

 

[Doveaman]

No evidence of anything ever being created by nonphysical means exists.

Like I said before, the nonphysical human "will" create things. This post you are reading was created by my own "will".

 

[Hespera]

Humans are capable of having the “will” to destroy all life on the planet simply by the press of a few buttons. What animal do you know of that is capable of having the “will” to do such a thing?
You see neurons firing in the brain in response to hunger and fertility, but the “will” to find food or a mate is not caused by those neurons firing in the brain, this is why we can “will” ourselves to choose not to find food or a mate despite the hunger and fertility.
My claim is that the human “will” is nonphysical and there is no evidence for it apart from our experience of it in our minds and its effects on our brain and body.

It is for you to falsify my claim by showing that the human “will” is physical in nature or is generated by a physical process.

God’s “will”, which is also nonphysical, works similarly within the Christian’s mind; we cannot determine the evidence for God’s “will” apart from the experience of it in the Christian’s mind and its effects on the Christian’s brain and body, “For it is God who works in you to will and to do according to His good purpose.” - Phil 2:13

It is for you to falsify my claim by showing that the human “will” is physical in nature or is generated by a physical process.

Ok lets see, you claim to have something for which there is zero evidence.

Then you think its true unless someone can prove it isnt.

Works for Atlantis, Nessie, and the secret alien base in the Bermuda triangle.

Again, the 'prove a negative" fallacy. When will it end.

 

[Hespera]

Does this mean you have conceded?

perhaps, i the sense that Im convinced you are somewhere beyond reach.

 

[Ar Cosc]

Humans are capable of having the “will” to destroy all life on the planet simply by the press of a few buttons. What animal do you know of that is capable of having the “will” to do such a thing?

That's just a product of more complex thought processes. Animals are perfectly capable of having the will to kill, and the intelligence to create tools. Nuclear weapons are just an extension of this.

You see neurons firing in the brain in response to hunger and fertility, but the “will” to find food or a mate is not caused by those neurons firing in the brain, this is why we can “will” ourselves to choose not to find food or a mate despite the hunger and fertility.

You've no proof of this. When we resist the urge to find food or sex, different neurons fire. There are many evolutionary explanations for things such as altruism and self-control.

My claim is that the human “will” is nonphysical and there is no evidence for it apart from our experience of it in our minds and its effects on our brain and body.

It is for you to falsify my claim by showing that the human “will” is physical in nature or is generated by a physical process.

God’s “will”, which is also nonphysical, works similarly within the Christian’s mind; we cannot determine the evidence for God’s “will” apart from the experience of it in the Christian’s mind and its effects on the Christian’s brain and body, “For it is God who works in you to will and to do according to His good purpose.” - Phil 2:13

But there's no evidence for it, and no need for it. You can assert there is some sort of nonphysical "will" all you want, but without evidence, it's just another Russell's Teapot.

 

[sandwiches]

Like I said before, the nonphysical human "will" create things. This post you are reading was created by my own "will".

It is physical. It's a series of electrical signals that eventually lead to muscles contracting and other physiological responses. The post was written by a combination of your extremities and technology, not your will.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Like I said before, the nonphysical human "will" create things. This post you are reading was created by my own "will".

You saying it doesn't make it true. The post we are reading was created by computers, servers, and the Internet.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Well, no one is denying that you know some things, nor is anyone claiming that a part of the brain is nonphysical. The claim is that there is more to the human mind than just a physical brain and that there is no conclusive evidence that the human “will” is physical in nature or is generated by a physical process. You are yet to demonstrate this.

Is there a non-physical "will" that governs urinary excretion? Or do the kidneys do it through natural processes?

Is there a non-physical "will" that governs the heart's pacemaker? Or does it operate due to physical laws?

There is no reason to believe that consciousness is any different than anything else our body does. There is a physical reason.

And this is a GOOD THING...because physical reasons can be altered with physical therapies. If the kidney had a "will" governing it, our diuretics wouldn't work. Understanding the natural way something works in the human body means that we can treat it when something goes wrong. You people who demand that we reserve a spot for the spiritual are getting in the way of tomorrow's therapies.

 

[Hespera]

It is physical. It's a series of electrical signals that eventually lead to muscles contracting and other physiological responses. The post was written by your hands, not your will.

he wants you to prove that is ALL there is to it. Kind of like you have to prove that your TV only works with hardware and electricity.

Can you prove there is not an immaterial "TV will" in there?

or that your car doesnt have feelings?

He thinks this is a completely legit argument to make.

Why it is that anyone with access to "Truth' -god, bible, all of reality and the angles on his side- would have nothing better to work with than simple fallacies is one of them mysteries.

 

[HosannaHM]

You saying it doesn't make it true. The post we are reading was created by computers, servers, and the Internet.

I believe he means "created", Which would mean the post itself is derived from his mind.

If no one had some form of will to be on this forum, then no one would be on it. There has to be a desire. Talent is another factor that is difficult to explain.

 

[Doveaman]

It is physical.

Prove it.

It's a series of electrical signals that eventually lead to muscles contracting and other physiological responses. The post was written by your hands, not your will.

My hands move in response to the electrical signals generated through my brain by my "will". Therefore my "will" did it.