For the sake of argument, let's say God exists

Darkeonz said:

I find it weird you won't give me a straight answer

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"There was a crooked man
And he walked a crooked mile
And he found a crooked six-pence
On a crooked stile.
He had a crooked cat
Which caught a crooked mouse,
And they all lived together
In a little crooked house!"

So why expect a straight answer?

Darkeonz said:

I see a lot of people claiming something as complex as the life here on earth must have a creator. Now my question is for those who claim the God of the Bible is the one. How do you make the leap from there having to be a creator, to the creator being the God of the Bible?

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The same way as they came up with the idea that there is a God and it does things like creating, You read the bible.

Golden Yak said:

Or rather, 'why is He more believable than the others?'

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Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

AV1611VET said:

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

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Circular reasoning

Darkeonz said:

Quoting the bible doesn't answer that question

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Doesn't answer that question for who? you?

The emphasis of the OP is on the experience of the answerer, not the inquisitor -- is it not?

Lion Hearted Man said:

Circular reasoning

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Yup -- just like fossils date the rocks, which date the fossils in them.

Darkeonz said:

You say you believe in the bible and then use a verse from the bible to show us why you believe it.

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What do you want me to do? say I believe in the Bible, then use a verse from the Koran?

AV1611VET said:

Yup -- just like fossils date the rocks, which date the fossils in them.

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Too bad it doesn't really work that way.

Telling truth to take a hike again, AV?

Nathan Poe said:

Too bad it doesn't really work that way.

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As long as you guys think it does though, that's all that matters, isn't it?

AV1611VET said:

As long as you guys think it does though, that's all that matters, isn't it?

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Only one thinking it is you.

Darkeonz said:

Let me try and make it even more simple.

If you had NEVER heard about the bible or christianity, and came across the book. What thoughts would have went through your head that made you say "I think this book is really gods word"

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I don't know -- I've never been in that situation.

I would guess though and say that the Bible bears witness with our spirit which, in tripartite theology, gives us God-consciousness.

When I see an atheist in particular, or a non-believer in general, I see much more than they do.

I see a person 'on the run' from the promptings of the Holy Ghost to get saved.

This running away may manifest itself in many ways: but here, it manifests itself mostly in ridicule.

Like I've said before, when we're ridiculed, I don't necessarily think it's we who are the real target of the ridicule, as much as I think God is the One being ridiculed.

I see deep anger and resentment toward God in many of these posts.

And hiding behind a science book to hide from the Bible isn't going to help.

Darkeonz said:

I see a lot of people claiming something as complex as the life here on earth must have a creator. Now my question is for those who claim the God of the Bible is the one. How do you make the leap from there having to be a creator, to the creator being the God of the Bible?

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You're following a very similar line of questioning to my own, although obviously given the icons next to our names I made a few decisions of my own following the questioning.

When I was looking for that "something more to life" I considered the whole argument about a creator and concluded that, on the balance of probability, it was more likely that god/s existed (small g used on purpose, given at the time I didn't know what form the deity or deities took).

From there the rest of the journey for me was the kind of thing I can describe but not in the sense of being able to point to something specific and saying "look, there it is, you can see it too". The first time I set foot in a church in 15 years (excluding the usual weddings, funerals etc) was in September 2007. Previously I'd been sufficiently hostile to Christianity that I'd seriously considered burning every Bible I owned (I'd been given a few, and bought one for myself many many years previously), and yet the minute I set foot in that church I could sense an overwhelming sense of something peaceful in a way I just couldn't put into words. The reason I'd sought a church was simply because out of nowhere an instinctive desire to find some form of peace had come over me, also in a way it's impossible to put into words.

So there I was, standing in this church in my work clothes (pinstripe suit and all that) and for no apparent reason struggling not to just break down and cry. So I sat in that church, alone, trying to make sense of it all.

Curiously, when I approached that church I could feel the peace attracting me to it from some distance away. When I approached mosques and temples of other religions I felt nothing of the sort.

Until that time I regarded magick (the ways of the occult) as something to be used freely for personal gain, even if that "personal gain" meant using it to hurt others. People I knew who were open-minded about the existence of supernatural powers were typically quite taken aback at my attitude that if someone got in the way of the powers then it was just too bad for them. Obviously such an attitude is pretty much the exact opposite of the attitude of a Christian, which if anything makes the turnabout even more remarkable.

Since then I can describe things that confirm my faith in God (the God of the Bible) is well placed. I've seen things that can only be described as miraculous, even given the things I experienced during my time in the occult.

What I've described might or might not be something that specifically convinces you that the God I now worship, the God described in the Bible, is the one true God. But what I can say is that what I have seen is enough to convince me beyond any doubt at all that turning to Christ is the only option that's worth anything at all. Which reminds me of the story of the blind man healed by Jesus in John chapter 9. His words were, "One thing I know: that though I was blind, now I see."

One other thing, if I might quote a few verses from the Bible in the time leading up to Jesus being crucified. (Whether or not you accept the Bible as being any more than a piece of literature, the point will remain)

Joh 18:35-38 NKJV Pilate answered, "Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have You done?" (36) Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here." (37) Pilate therefore said to Him, "Are You a king then?" Jesus answered, "You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice." (38) Pilate said to Him, "What is truth?" And when he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, "I find no fault in Him at all.

Those words of Pilate in v38, "What is truth?" represent a question that repeats through time. The question I would put back to you is whether you want to find what is true or stay put in a state that may or may not be comfortable, if it is more comfortable than finding the truth.

If you truly want to find what is truth, seek it until you find it. Where truth is concerned there's no such thing as second best.

AV, do you believe that all atheists in this subforum are merely masquerading their non-belief as virulent anti-christianity? That is to ask: Do you believe that all atheists here are lying about their non-belief?

Skavau said:

AV, do you believe that all atheists in this subforum are merely masquerading their non-belief as virulent anti-christianity? That is to ask: Do you believe that all atheists here are lying about their non-belief?

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No.