For the sake of argument, let's say God exists

[Doveaman]

Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. In other words, I don't need to waste my time on your claims if you don't have a shred of evidence for them. It's like asking me to disprove the existence of pink unicorns in space...

Fair enough. Then your claim is dismissed.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Fair enough. Then your claim is dismissed.

I'm not making a claim. YOU ARE.

Doveaman: biology and science can take a hike. there is a nonphysical human will!!
Me: please show me your evidence.
Doveaman: you show ME the evidence that I'm wrong.
Me: that's not how this works.
Doveaman: I win.
Me: *facepalm*

 

[Hespera]

That’s because they are.
But aren’t emotions generated by the brain? Why act contrary to the way the brain tell us to feel and act? If you feel those cravings, yearnings and longings, why resist them? Why deny the body its natural desires by acting morally instead?
Everybody has an explanation but no demonstration. Typical.
And yet you cannot show my idea to be false.

]That’s because they are

They 'are" what? Your answer makes no sense.

But aren’t emotions generated by the brain? Why act contrary to the way the brain tell us to feel and act? If you feel those cravings, yearnings and longings, why resist them? Why deny the body its natural desires by acting morally instead?

ok, some l unrelataed rhetorical questions, totally unresponsive to waht I said.

Everybody has an explanation but no demonstration. Typical.
And yet you cannot show my idea to be false

So show us a demo of your mystical non physical will.

what is typical is this ridiculous "cant prove it isnt so" which applies equlaly to the secret alien base in the bermuda triangle, and is among the most worthless and inane of argument.s

A person with a shred of pride in their ability to think should be embarrassed touse it.

 

[Doveaman]

Your claims are without support; why dont you just admit that you dont know how human will is generated, instead of pretending you do?

I have a prediction that is presently holding up -- Scientists will never be capable of understanding how the human mind works because they are relying only on the physical to explain something that is not entirely physical.
.
"There is a spirit in man"

"The spirit is willing, but the body is weak"

"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him?"

"The body without the spirit is dead” - Job 32:8, Matt 26:41, 1 Cor 2:11, James 2:26.

 

[Delphiki]

It is talking about the nonphysical element of the human mind that generates the human "will".

Again, you are making a claim without any support. Can you please show me how it's about psychics?
What I’m asking you is -- Can you manipulate those brain activities you claim to understand so that they behave in such a way as to cause a human being to desire to bake a chocolate cake on Christmas day and freely choose to share that cake with their neighbors? After all, this is what the human “will” does. If you cannot even recreate the physical processes in the brain which you claim to understand, then how can you even know that they produce the human “will”?

Well as long as you move the goal posts to say that "will" is simply thinking of specific details of premeditation.

Technology isn't quite at that level of sophistication to create thoughts that specific (chocolate cake, Christmas, neighbors), however, general emotions can be artificially reproduced in humans (hunger, selflessness) using a technique called TMS. There's even a helmet built in a lab using technology similar to TMS designed to give people the feeling they are in the presence of God -- and it actually works. We can do this because scientists have a well enough understanding of the brain to do so.

It stands to reason that a feeling as general as an increased desire for survival (which would be the will to live) may also be artificially produced. In fact, many drugs and other things that increase the excretion of adrenaline would be doing just that.

If I claimed that the images generated on your computer screen were cause by a physical process, this physical process can be shown and demonstrated to reproduce those images on your screen.

This is because the screen is created, and created by intelligent beings (humans). We know how they are built and how they work because we build them. The reason we know how it works is completely different than how we've developed our understanding of how the human brain works.

Why don’t you just admit you don’t understand how the human “will” is generated, because you seem like you are on a boat cruise on a river in Egypt.

Perhaps if you defined what you mean by "will" and stick with the same definition, you might get a clear answer. When I hear "will", I think it means a desire to succeed or live. You are now apparently saying that carrying out a series of specific planned actions (like baking and sharing cookies on xmas) is "will" -- which is simply a matter of organizing cognitive steps from memory.

 

[Doveaman]

I'm not making a claim.

Your claim is that the human "will" is generated by physical processes in the brain.

Claim dismissed!

 

[Delphiki]

Your claim is that the human "will" is generated by physical processes in the brain.

Claim dismissed!

You still haven't clearly defined what you mean by "human will".

 

[Hespera]

I have a prediction that is presently holding up -- Scientists will never be capable of understanding how the human mind works because they are relying only on the physical to explain something that is not entirely physical.
.
"There is a spirit in man"

"The spirit is willing, but the body is weak"

"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him?"

"The body without the spirit is dead” - Job 32:8, Matt 26:41, 1 Cor 2:11, James 2:26.

never mind, you dont seem capable of an actual response to anything, just repeat one of your lines, then chant from the bible.

 

[sandwiches]

It is talking about the nonphysical element of the human mind that generates the human "will".

Again, you are making a claim without any support. Can you please show me how it's about psychics?

What I’m asking you is -- Can you manipulate those brain activities you claim to understand so that they behave in such a way as to cause a human being to desire to bake a chocolate cake on Christmas day and freely choose to share that cake with their neighbors? After all, this is what the human “will” does.

If you cannot even recreate the physical processes in the brain which you claim to understand, then how can you even know that they produce the human “will”?

If I claimed that the images generated on your computer screen were cause by a physical process, this physical process can be shown and demonstrated to reproduce those images on your screen.

Why don’t you just admit you don’t understand how the human “will” is generated, because you seem like you are on a boat cruise on a river in Egypt.

I assumed you realize that some processes are more complex than others. And while we can't currently manipulate the processes of the brain FULLY, we have no reason to assume these processes unlike any other processes are anything bu physical, unless you have some evidence that shows they are more than physical.

So, you have yet to do three things:
1) Define "human will"
2) Show that this "human will" exists
3) Show evidence that this "human will" is nonphysical.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

I have a prediction that is presently holding up -- Scientists will never be capable of understanding how the human mind works because they are relying only on the physical to explain something that is not entirely physical.
.
"There is a spirit in man"

"The spirit is willing, but the body is weak"

"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him?"

"The body without the spirit is dead” - Job 32:8, Matt 26:41, 1 Cor 2:11, James 2:26.

I have a prediction that is presently holding up -- Theists will never be capable of understanding how the human mind works because they are relying on the bible to explain something that man didn't entirely understand when it was written.

snip*biblegibberish*snip

 

[super animator]

I have a prediction that is presently holding up -- Theists will never be capable of understanding how the human mind works because they are relying on the bible to explain something that man didn't entirely understand when it was written.

snip*biblegibberish*snip

You generalize a group of people based on some random user?

 

[CaliforniaSun]

You generalize a group of people based on some random user?

Trollsgetswhatstrollswants.

Did you honestly think his statement deserved anything better?

 

[Ar Cosc]

How do you know this is not true?

How do I know there aren't literal windows in the sky, behind which are vast reservoirs of water, and every time it rains it's because somebody opens one of these literal windows, allowing the water to escape? Now you're just being ridiculous. If you honestly don't know how rain works, you have no place on a "physical and life sciences" discussion board.

 

[sandwiches]

Your claim is that the human "will" is generated by physical processes in the brain.

Claim dismissed!

You're misunderstanding the claim, Doveaman. The claim is as follows: We see neurons, we see brain, we see electric signals. Nothing else. All of those things are physical, right?

We do NOT see the process of "human will" any more than we see the process "brewing" in a brewery, right?

Now, you're claiming that "human will" somehow transcends what we can detect. Can we test this idea?

So, to summarize: We CANNOT, we are UNABLE TO, we are INCAPABLE of detecting anything that isn't physical and therefore, we CANNOT make a claim regarding the nonphysical. That's the claim.

If you believe you have evidence of the nonphysical, please present it, as we seem to be missing it at the moment.

 

[Lion Hearted Man]

Your claim is that the human "will" is generated by physical processes in the brain.

Claim dismissed!

I still don't even know what you mean by "will"! You need to provide evidence that your supernatural "will" exists. It doesn't matter if there is a physical reason (though I think there is), because even if we don't know a physical reason, the lack of a physical reason does not mean you are automatically right. You need evidence for your claims.

 

[mzungu]

Nope, I’m predicting science will never replace my claim since they are relying only on the physical to explain something that is not entirely physical – the “human mind”.
Biology class can take a hike.

Unless your biology teacher can give a repeatable demonstration of what he taught you so as to reproduce the human “will” I have no reason to believe that what you are trying to teach me is the truth. Like I said, anybody can give an explanation, but few can give a demonstration.

Define "Will"

 

[ATTC]

How many Greco-Roman-Egyptian-Norse Gods said thou shall put no other God before me? How many dare make that claim?

You add Biblical Historocity to the mix and it's not even a close race for what text could have the claim for being the inspired word of God.

 

[Inan3]

I see a lot of people claiming something as complex as the life here on earth must have a creator. Now my question is for those who claim the God of the Bible is the one. How do you make the leap from there having to be a creator, to the creator being the God of the Bible?

Because the God of the Bible is the ONLY God and He has said that He was the Creator of all. The only leap is to believe what God says. Not hard!! It's a leap of faith and that is enough!!

Oh, and by they way, you have it backward. First we believe the God of the Bible and then we believe what He says about being the Creator.

 

[Nostromo]

How many Greco-Roman-Egyptian-Norse Gods said thou shall put no other God before me? How many dare make that claim?

Do you think other Gods actually exist?

 

[mzungu]

How many Greco-Roman-Egyptian-Norse Gods said thou shall put no other God before me? How many dare make that claim?

How many Greco-Roman-Egyptian-Norse Gods said stone to death any disobedient child?