For the Jews Only

[DennisTate]

Thank you for verifying the lack of integrity in your posts.
You twisted true and honest words into an attempted and misdirected, evil, false implication of your own.

The man from Uganda was basing his article almost completely on those five chapters....... and you didn't seem to want to take a serious look at the idea.

For the record... I was introduced to this topic back in the 1970's and I also flipped flopped back and forth on this topic as well... .it is kind of complicated. But Messiah Yeshua sure seems to want all the words of the Prophets taken seriously .... even the negative and scary ones like Isaiah 53.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Those who are abiding in Jesus, do not find any of YHWH's Word negative and scary.
Twisting prophecy since the 1970's doesn't make it any more real nor true, and trying to twist YHWH'S WORD to support a lie is nothing new - it has been going on for many centuries.

 

[DennisTate]

Those who are abiding in Jesus, do not find any of YHWH's Word negative and scary.
Twisting prophecy since the 1970's doesn't make it any more real nor true, and trying to twist YHWH'S WORD to support a lie is nothing new - it has been going on for many centuries.

I do find it interesting that some modern prophets have been given the name Cyrus in reference to President Trump..... if..... Messiah Yeshua Jesus wishes to set the stage for the fulfillment of Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 by the year 2030.... the 2000 year anniversary of his death, burial and resurrection... .then this might fit with Revelation 21 happening by the year 3030????

If..... we Christians are supposed to assist Jews in their desire to rebuild their Temple...... and if our missing this delays the fulfillment until the year 2070.... it is possible that millions of people may die who could be saved if we did not delay this prophecy.

This is important....... whatever the truth is on this.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yeah, old story. Same deception as it was years ago.

The truth? YHWH is delighted to reveal the truth - His Son Died, Crucified, for our sins. He won't withhold anything from those who love Him, who are called according to His Purpose.
Already , though, in the first couple centuries "many antichrists are among us" and
as Jesus always warned - there are many false teachers and false prophets. (today even more than then) ....

There's been so much deception for so long in so many lives, it will take time, YHWH Willing.... it will take time, for those entangled in so much deception, to be set free,
and only if they are willing. (or become willing)....

 

[DennisTate]

Those who are abiding in Jesus, do not find any of YHWH's Word negative and scary.
Twisting prophecy since the 1970's doesn't make it any more real nor true, and trying to twist YHWH'S WORD to support a lie is nothing new - it has been going on for many centuries.

Can you see anything wrong with the way that the late Grant R. Jeffrey deals with the Temple during the Millennium?

It looks logical to me!

"The Sacrificial System Will Continue

One of the most perplexing ideas to students of Scripture is the idea that God intends that the annual feasts, along with animal sacrifice, will continue into the Millennium. Many Christians who have studied the prophetic portions of Zechariah 14, Isaiah 66, and Ezekiel 40 - 48, which clearly describe these Millennial worship ordinations, are confused by the idea. They ask, "Didn't the sacrifice of Christ eliminate animal sacrifices forever?"

............"Only the complete sacrifice of Jesus could ever totally atone for our sins. However, God clearly demanded the sacrifices from Adam to Christ. Those sacrifices were acts of obedience to the direct command of God, as well as acknowledgements of one's own personal sinfulness and need for God's forgiveness. Animal sacrifices covered the sins of the people temporarily until the prophesied Messiah would come and offer Himself once and for all as the necessary atonement for sin. If animal sacrifice can never atone for sin, why would God allow Israel to resume such sacrifice in the Third Temple, prior to Armageddon, and then demand that Israel continue such sacrifice in the Millennium? There are two reasons why I believe this is true."

First, the early Jewish - Christian Church continued to offer sacrifices in the first century.".......



.......Second, New Testament writers used the legal sacrificial system to illustrate very important points concerning Christ's sacrifice on the Cross.......

..... These examples of the way early Jewish believers used God's law to teach great love when He sacrificed His only Son on the cross will be repeated during the Millennium." (Grant R. Jeffrey, Messiah, War in the Middle East and the Road to Armageddon, page 317, 318 and 319)

 

[L'hitraot]

Sorry stepping out of this thread...
There are views expressed here that leave me scratching my head in amazement.
It seems to me some here are really just entertaining themselves by being ridiculous...I'm not wasting my time on those who are not sincere in their search for a closer walk with Jesus.

 

[DennisTate]

Yeah, old story. Same deception as it was years ago.

The truth? YHWH is delighted to reveal the truth - His Son Died, Crucified, for our sins. He won't withhold anything from those who love Him, who are called according to His Purpose.
Already , though, in the first couple centuries "many antichrists are among us" and
as Jesus always warned - there are many false teachers and false prophets. (today even more than then) ....

There's been so much deception for so long in so many lives, it will take time, YHWH Willing.... it will take time, for those entangled in so much deception, to be set free,
and only if they are willing. (or become willing)....

What do you personally make of the fact that the testimony of
a young fifteen year old Israeli near death experiencer sounds remarkably
like these statements by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus?


Matthew 5:19

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."


Natan has me wondering if I personally should become even more Jewish and wear Noahide Tzitzit???????

 

[Hethatreadethit]

I know of a group that can probably answer many of your questions about this.


https://bneyyosefna.com/about-bney-yosef-children-of-joseph/articles-of-declaration/

Thank you.

 

[DennisTate]

What do you all think of this theory?

The Roots of Western anti-Judaism
The Roots of Western anti-Judaism
....

James is said to have died before the destruction of the second Temple. Early Christian tradition states that James was invited to speak at Passover before many Jews who did not believe Yeshua was Messiah. When James began to speak of the Passover and its relation to the work of Yeshua, he was killed. Shortly thereafter, the Temple was destroyed and many Christians (read: Jews and non-Jews who followed Yeshua) saw this as an abomination, and thus used the warning in Matthew 24:16 to flee to the mountains. It is estimated that about half of the Jews who believed that Yeshua was Messiah left and did not return.[10]

As this sect of Judaism began to spread geographically, and as those from areas outside of Judea became part of this movement, animosity beyond what already existed between the two groups began to grow. It wouldn’t be long before both sides, but perhaps mainly the Christians, began to pass decrees to make themselves appear less Jewish in appearance. For example, at the Council of Elvira[11] decrees were passed that tried to keep Jews and Christians apart by ordering the latter never to share a meal with Jews, never to marry Jews, never to use Jews to bless their fields, and that Christians were never to observe the Jewish Sabbath (of course, these decrees also serve to substantiate that Christians had been doing these things up until this point).[12]Slowly, over time, more decrees and similar teachings began to come together in such a way that there would eventually be no mistaking Judaism and Christianity. What was once a sect of Judaism became, at least in outward form, a new religion. And within that religion, the view that the Jews were “Christ Killers” was already gaining momentum. For example, in the homily Peri Pascha, Melito of Sardis (circa middle of the second century) wrote “The God has been murdered; the king of Israel has been put to death by an Israelite right hand.”[13] Another example, Justin Martyr (also circa middle of the second century), in his Dialogue with Trypho, A Jew, explains why the Jews have suffered exile and the destruction of the Temple, saying to his Jewish interlocutor “tribulations were justly imposed on you since you have murdered the Just One [Jesus].”[14]

 

[Hethatreadethit]

Are you saying that Isaiah chapter 42 - Isaiah 46 is a false prophecy?
........
One of the best arguments that I have ran into as to why
Christians should support the Orthodox Jewish community
in their desire to rebuild their Jerusalem Third Temple is
a statement by Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus:

Luke 24:25

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:"

So... all that the prophets have spoken would include Ezekiel chapters 40 - 48 that
clearly describe the restored Jerusalem Third Temple as part of the Era of Messiah / Moshiach.... .the millennial rule of Messiah over all the earth.

Also:
Luke 13:35

"Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

Was Ezekiel blessed?

Did Ezekiel come in the name of the Lord?

Is Christianity relatively desolate due to our having forgotten the words of the Prophets?

When all the clouds of confusion dry up, the return of Christ will enter into the minds of those who with one mind have joined the Lord and His righteousness.

Jer 51:50 Ye that have escaped the sword, go away, stand not still: remember the LORD afar off, and let Jerusalem come into your mind.

The world of MIND is the first place of building. The walls that the early Church built were breeched along time ago allowing for all types of confusion to enter and tread over what was then a pure message.

Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
Zep 3:10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.

With a pure language, and one consent (accord), the wall can be reconstructed, and that wall is the wall of our mind:

Pro 25:28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

A wall is not strong if it is constructed poorly and not bound together. Like a house divided, it will fall.
The walls of salvation are built on the righteousness of Christ through one gospel.

1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

It must be fire retardant:

Zec 2:5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.

For all those in the present world that say their Christians, why is there so much indifference; don't they all have the mind of Christ?

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Do they partake of the same altar?

Heb 13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

The altar was surrounded by walls, and Jerusalem is surrounded by mountains:

Psa 125:2 As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.

The light that guides the mind, according to Peter girds the mind:

1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

The Spiritual riches of God's word will gird your mind, ie, think on this.

Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Walls are created to separate us from our enemies, and the greatest enemy is against our mind and heart.

Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Luk 12:35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;

Christ being the chief cornerstone, will not be joined with stones whose integrity, have darkness.

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Many are confused when I write because I use both physical and spiritual thoughts but these ideas or visions are to make spiritual claims of the understanding that God has given me.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

You said;How do the Jews feel about a person who leaves the Jewish faith to become a Christian?
Jews who leave Judaism to accept Yeshua as their Messiah is going from one Jewish faith to another Jewish faith Yeshua is the Vine born in Israel gathering fruit all over the world
The Hope of Israel
is
the Hope of the World Jesus.

There are discrepancies. I tried to communicate on a Jewish forum and soon realized I was only welcome to listen, and not share ideas.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

What do you personally make of the fact that the testimony of
a young fifteen year old Israeli near death experiencer sounds remarkably
like these statements by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus?


Matthew 5:19

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."


Natan has me wondering if I personally should become even more Jewish and wear Noahide Tzitzit???????

If you have put on Christ, you don,t need a tzitzit. Interesting film.

 

[DennisTate]

If you have put on Christ, you don,t need a tzitzit. Interesting film.

That is an interesting comment.... you could be correct.... I am not so certain though????!

At least not for those of us who have a calling in life somewhat like Timothy.... who
like Paul was significantly sent to Jews.... and Paul advised that Timothy be circumcised.


Act 16:1

¶
Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:

Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.

Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

 

[DennisTate]

When all the clouds of confusion dry up, the return of Christ will enter into the minds of those who with one mind have joined the Lord and His righteousness.

Jer 51:50 Ye that have escaped the sword, go away, stand not still: remember the LORD afar off, and let Jerusalem come into your mind.

The world of MIND is the first place of building. The walls that the early Church built were breeched along time ago allowing for all types of confusion to enter and tread over what was then a pure message.

Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
Zep 3:10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.

With a pure language, and one consent (accord), the wall can be reconstructed, and that wall is the wall of our mind:

Pro 25:28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

A wall is not strong if it is constructed poorly and not bound together. Like a house divided, it will fall.
The walls of salvation are built on the righteousness of Christ through one gospel.

1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

It must be fire retardant:

Zec 2:5 For I, saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.

For all those in the present world that say their Christians, why is there so much indifference; don't they all have the mind of Christ?

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Do they partake of the same altar?

Heb 13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

1Co 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

The altar was surrounded by walls, and Jerusalem is surrounded by mountains:

Psa 125:2 As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.

The light that guides the mind, according to Peter girds the mind:

1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

The Spiritual riches of God's word will gird your mind, ie, think on this.

Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Walls are created to separate us from our enemies, and the greatest enemy is against our mind and heart.

Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Luk 12:35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;

Christ being the chief cornerstone, will not be joined with stones whose integrity, have darkness.

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Many are confused when I write because I use both physical and spiritual thoughts but these ideas or visions are to make spiritual claims of the understanding that God has given me.

I do believe that the city of Jerusalem of the year 2200 will astonish us.

Former Atheist and near death experiencer Howard Storm was shown the world of the year 2185 and it sure fitted with the predictions by Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets.

Reverend Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience

The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world.



And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition.



There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.



What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables.



People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine.



Animals lived with people, in harmony.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

That is an interesting comment.... you could be correct.... I am not so certain though????!

At least not for those of us who have a calling in life somewhat like Timothy.... who
like Paul was significantly sent to Jews.... and Paul advised that Timothy be circumcised.


Act 16:1

¶
Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:

Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.

Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

I like the way you think Dennis, kinda remind me of myself. I can see that you have the concept of spiritual law which is a great thing to have. Search and research, until your faith is convinced. do lots of word studies. I , would write down scriptures using a 5 subject note book comparing word used in one scripture to the similar word used in another scripture, and my thoughts would grow with understanding, thanks to God and His Spirit. At 18 notebooks latter, God has given me some great Gems of His Glory. This is my chief joy.
The Tzitzit is an optional commandment for those not under the law, but with this to think about: that the Jews did not profit from it, to remember the commandments, but through Christ and the SOG, remembrance of God's Commandments will be as faithful to you as you are to Them.

 

[Hethatreadethit]

I do believe that the city of Jerusalem of the year 2200 will astonish us.

Former Atheist and near death experiencer Howard Storm was shown the world of the year 2185 and it sure fitted with the predictions by Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and the minor prophets.

Reverend Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience

Your a spiritual man, there forefore lift up your head, look up. Only those who are looking up will see Christ and His return.

Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

This being a big reason for the difference between unbelieving Jew and a true Christian.

For those on Earth, it is necessary to look up to the spiritual, the Will of God. It shall be done on Earth as is done in Heaven. This is a duplication, just as a father to his son, or teacher to his student.

The Morning offering is to be duplicated by the evening offering, that is to those who do the will of God, the Sacrifice of Praise.

Exo 29:38 Now this is that which thou shalt offer upon the altar; two lambs of the first year day by day continually.
Exo 29:39 The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even:
Exo 29:40 And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering.
Exo 29:41 And the other lamb thou shalt offer at even, and shalt do thereto according to the meat offering of the morning, and according to the drink offering thereof, for a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

Think a lot on this, it will gladden your heart, there is great wisdom there and it embraces understanding. Then think about this, that the doing is according to the grain and drink offering, and doing is righteousness, according to the goodness of God (grain, wine, and oil). This is a sacrifice of righteousness.

Psa 51:18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
Psa 51:19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

This is not about animals, but rather men doing the will of God, an eternal offering to the likeminded in Christ.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

For god made known His will:

Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Blessing to you, sincerely:
Hethatreadetit