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Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Hethatreadethit, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. Hethatreadethit

    Hethatreadethit ClintR Supporter

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    If there are any well educated Jews or Israelis, I would like to learn from them about basic requirements that are necessary to build the New Temple. As a Gentile, you may look down upon me, but if your familiar with the prophets, you know that there will be Gentiles, that are allowed to help build the walls of the Temple.

    Isa 60:10 And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.

    I only suspect that this will please God even more than carnal sacrifice:

    Psa 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
    Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
    Psa 51:18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
    Psa 51:19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

    I have great concern for you my friends, that your process of doing this reconstruction may bring back a serious controversy from your early years of temple sacrifice:

    Mic 6:1 Hear ye now what the LORD saith; Arise, contend thou before the mountains, and let the hills hear thy voice.
    Mic 6:2 Hear ye, O mountains, the LORD'S controversy, and ye strong foundations of the earth: for the LORD hath a controversy with his people, and he will plead with Israel.
    Mic 6:3 O my people, what have I done unto thee? and wherein have I wearied thee? testify against me.
    Mic 6:4 For I brought thee up out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of servants; and I sent before thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam.
    Mic 6:5 O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.
    Mic 6:6 Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?
    Mic 6:7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
    Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

    I believe the Messiah is needed now, more than ever to bring to light this and all controversies.

    Deu 17:8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose;
    Deu 17:9 And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment:
    Deu 17:10 And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:
    Deu 17:11 According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.
    Deu 17:12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.
    Deu 17:13 And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously.

    I also know that there will need to be a purification, and this will require LIVING WATER, and a perfectly red heifer. A purification from death, and what my question would pose now:
    If there is a purification from death, will the outcome of this temple be eternal life?
    For the HOPE of ISRAEL, this must be the only outcome, for anything else will just end up the return to wrath.

    Most sincerely from your human brother:

    Hethatreadethit
     
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  2. AmazingGraceCountry

    AmazingGraceCountry New Member

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    Hi, I do not fully understand you, I think you want to build a temple, so why, and where, and is this temple your project, or Gods, a building is nothing, its what people do that matters, God wants a relationship with each of us, He does not state we have to be in a specific building, so is there no place for your people to gather and worship, you mention a lot of walls, walls need not have a thing to do with a temple, there are walls everywhere, mostly for wrong reasons, like man divided up the earth and continues to fight over it.
     
  3. Hethatreadethit

    Hethatreadethit ClintR Supporter

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    Your right, you do not understand:

    Isa 59:9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
    Isa 59:10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.
    Isa 59:11 We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us.

    Maybe you need to do a little more research. Do you have a Strongs, then look up wall, or walls and do a word search, and this method worked for me and still does. Need a open mind away from world doctrine's and a heart willing to search for the truth, and most of all the S.O.G.
     
  4. AmazingGraceCountry

    AmazingGraceCountry New Member

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    Hi, I am new here, and have read through some posts, I find a lot of people are concerned about all sorts of things that are really not of God, I should have responded to your post by suggesting you seek the Lord, have faith, and He will light up your path.
    Below is the full chapter you took from, and again, walls nor building temples have nothing to do with what is written in these verses, they are about man, sins and salvation, unless you are building wall between yourself and salvation, or are talking about the temple which is your own body.
    Jesus paid it all, no walls needed, have faith.

    Isa:59:1: Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
    Isa:59:2: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
    Isa:59:3: For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.
    Isa:59:4: None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
    Isa:59:5: They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
    Isa:59:6: Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.
    Isa:59:7: Their feet run to evil, and they make hast to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths.
    Isa:59:8: The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
    Isa:59:9: Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
    Isa:59:10: We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.
    Isa:59:11: We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us.
    Isa:59:12: For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;
    Isa:59:13: In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
    Isa:59:14: And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
    Isa:59:15: Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
    Isa:59:16: And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
    Isa:59:17: For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.
    Isa:59:18: According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.
    Isa:59:19: So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
    Isa:59:20: And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
    Isa:59:21: As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
     
  5. Hethatreadethit

    Hethatreadethit ClintR Supporter

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    I did address this to Jews only. JUST let me ask you this:
    Do you have walls in your mind that separate good from evil?
     
  6. AmazingGraceCountry

    AmazingGraceCountry New Member

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    No, I am not a Jew, and no, I have no walls in my mind to
    separate good from evil, I have faith and trust in God that
    he will protect me from evil.
    You know better than me, that God's chosen people are the Jews,
    so why not reciprocate His love and obey Him, look through the bible,
    no civilisation that ever opposed His will survived, there is a message
    in there.
     
  7. AmazingGraceCountry

    AmazingGraceCountry New Member

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    Oh, I do apologise for not seeing the importance of answering your question and
    me not a Jew.
    I answered your question because I can see no problem with either
    building walls or temples, as long as its for Good, and I could see no connection
    between your references in scripture to your question, grasping for walls that are not there, may be try grasping for something that is always there, like God,
    sacrifice a heifer, all old testament, Jesus made the last and ultimate sacrifice.
    Regarding intelligent Jews, no one needs to be intelligent to build a wall or temple,
    and sacrificing a heifer, won't achieve anything good, He said, it is done.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  8. Hethatreadethit

    Hethatreadethit ClintR Supporter

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  9. Hethatreadethit

    Hethatreadethit ClintR Supporter

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    Faith and Love, always the answers, but what does that mean. Without knowledge of the importance of a parachute, I jump out of a plane having faith, and where does that get me, Faith and love have meaning to me, but I find their commonly used by people who have no other answers.
     
  10. AmazingGraceCountry

    AmazingGraceCountry New Member

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    Well I gave some answers that speak of more than faith and love.

    I would advise not to jump out of a plane unless you have a working
    parachute, I had few scares with mine, oddly enough because I had
    faith in another human to pack it, never did that again, there are many
    mentions in the bible of to trusting in no man, I also
    read in the bible that it is wrong to take a life, so please do not jump,
    the saying goes, Thou shalt not kill, that includes yourself.
    The bible also tells of fools, so be careful of what you think up.
    Psalm 118:8
    It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man.
    Jeremiah 17:5
    Thus says the Lord: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the Lord".

    The bible is a great collection of books, full of great examples of what to do
    and not to do, examples of what happens to those who ignore, and chose to
    do things their way. If God is not in it, what ever it is is to be avoided.

    Regarding your comments about faith and love always being the answer,
    you are correct, just imagine how peaceful the world would be if people
    had faith in God, and loved one another, as to what faith and love means,
    if you need to ask that then you do not know the Lord or His ways, for Jesus
    spoke of this may times.

    Regarding people not having answers, again you are right, God has the answers,
    and so we should trust in Him to supply, (seek and ye shall find, ask and you shall receive), the bible is full of answers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  11. AmazingGraceCountry

    AmazingGraceCountry New Member

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    And am not commenting any further, out of respect for you wanting answers
    from Jews only.

    Regards & Blessings to you and yours.
     
  12. Hethatreadethit

    Hethatreadethit ClintR Supporter

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    ok, thanks
     
  13. L'hitraot

    L'hitraot New Member

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    If you read Ezekiel 40-48 The Temple that will come down has already been made.
    God is building His Church Body with all of us who are in Christ we are living stones, by in large the Church age is made up primarily of Gentile Believers with a few Jews thrown in by Gods good pleasure.
    God is not calling any of us to accomplish tasks only He can accomplish.
    We are to have faith in Yeshua-Jesus trusting in His finished work, and we are to do good deeds born out of the love we have for Jesus our Savior..
    When the thousand year reign of Christ begins we will be busy with all He has for us at that time,
     
  14. Hethatreadethit

    Hethatreadethit ClintR Supporter

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    If G-d is building His Church Body, who's doing the foot work? I believe there is yet a major work of G-d, which is of course:

    Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    You sound like He has met His quota, and that's it, quitting time.
    You think G-d has left behind the Jews for good? What about what Paul says:

    Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
    Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
    Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

    It's G-d who turns hearts.

    Pro 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

    This is a good scripture to know when it seems a problem might be insurmountable, to overcome.
     
  15. L'hitraot

    L'hitraot New Member

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    Hethatreadethit,
    You said;
    As a Gentile, you may look down upon me, (Very presumptuous yet with that attitude it would be easier ...to look down on you if it weren't for my walk with Jesus)
    but if your familiar with the prophets, you know that there will be Gentiles, that are allowed to help build the walls of the Temple.

    Isa 60:10 And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.
    ~
    So reconcile those passages and these passages and let me know what you come up with :)
    If Jesus said He is building it and those passages say the Gentiles will build the walls... what's the answer?
    ~
    “In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3“If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. 4“And you know the way where I am going.” 5Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?” 6Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
    ~~~~~~~
    You said;
    You sound like He has met His quota, and that's it, quitting time.
    You think G-d has left behind the Jews for good? What about what Paul says:
    ~~~~~~
    You have no idea who I am you have never met me.. and yet you make such a bold statement about my beliefs concerning the Doctrine of Israel.
    My family on both sides is Jewish, I am thankful God is not finished with Israel.
     
  16. Hethatreadethit

    Hethatreadethit ClintR Supporter

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    Hi,

    I did not intend to bring a contention between Jew/Gentile, and it was a "in general" statement, and I know that God commanded the Jews to love the strangers that were among them.

    I have a Jewish commentary on Isaiah 60:10 by Judaica Books:

    Just as the Israelites will not build the Temple, neither will they build the walls of
    Jerusalem, but the gentiles will build them. - [Ibn Ezra]

    Anyway, I do not want to make a big deal about it, cause doing the work of G-d and building up (not tearing down) is good.

    How do the Jews feel about a person who leaves the Jewish faith to become a Christian?

    Answer to your question:
    Believers are the tabernacle and they are built into the "walls of salvation":

    Isa 60:18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

    These are spiritual happenings and the carnal mind will have trouble with this and the idea of a wall.

    I have a question for you:
    What is the hope of Israel:

    I must get ready for work, but I would like to go further here if Your willing?

    Sincerely
    Hethatreadethit
     
  17. Hethatreadethit

    Hethatreadethit ClintR Supporter

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    I was rushed to answer my reply this morning and I thought more on your question though it is very vague, and I have more to say .

    Christ was lifted up to draw all men to Him. He told His disciples that He would have to go away so that the Spirit of truth would come to them. In burnt offerings, the Head is offered first and the rest of the body follows. He also established "the clean place" where the ashes are poured out, but rather, in His case, where death would be swallowed up by life.

    He came to fulfill the law and the prophets which was the blueprint for His abode. He will dwell in His people, and the tabernacle is made of fruitful branches. His people shall dwell in Him.
     
  18. SBC

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    There is an organization that has been preparing "things" for the third Temple for some time.

    You can read of their goals and accomplishments on their web page.

    They are called; The Temple Institute.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
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  19. Hethatreadethit

    Hethatreadethit ClintR Supporter

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    Thanks
     
  20. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    U R Welcome
     
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