For the apostles only?

[NatalieJan777]

We are literal people, we will have literal imperishable bodies and we are His city. Being spiritual doesn't mean we float around like ecotoplasm. Consider the angels. They are seen, they speak, they eat, they walk. They are spiritual beings but they have mass. We are they...they are us. When we physically die our spiritual body steps out and returns to the Father.

We too shall be "flesh and bones." No longer flesh and blood.

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
​

We are to give our blood as atonement. We are to be spiritually crucified with Him while in a flesh body...to be flesh and bones!

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


​

So we will spiritually digest the literal food that we eat?

 

[NatalieJan777]

The holy city and His holy people are one and the same. He did tell us....

11 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

What Paul is speaking about here in Corinthians is in reference to being seperated from this world while living in this world.

2 Corinthians 6:17 "Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you."

and Jesus prayed for this as well on our behalf:

John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.

Here on earth HIS SPIRIT abides in us in a miniscule amount, when we are made imperishable it will be in an abundance.

Future Glory of Zion (which means to me, it is not here yet):

Isaiah 54:11 - 15 "O afflicted city, lashed by storms and not comforted, I will build you with stones of turquoise, your foundations with sapphires. I will make your battlements of rubies, your gates of sparkling jewels, and all your walls of precious stones. All your sons will be taught by the LORD, and great will be your children's peace. In righteousness you will be established: Tyranny will be far from you; you will have nothing to fear. Terror will be far removed; it will not come near you. If anyone does attack you, it will not be my doing; whoever attacks you will surrender to you."

See also the description of the New Jerusalem in Revelations 21.

I know Ezekiel's reference of the city to be literal, as well as that in Revelations 21 because in measuring it, literal scales are used. Why would literal scales be used to define something spiritual? Ezekiels prophecy to me is more like a blue print, where as in Isaiah and Revelations color is added.

 

[1whirlwind]

GOD did not divide the Kingdom, man did.

This does not biblically prove anything to me, I need chapter verse, etc....

Read Ezekiel 37:28

Ezekiel 37:22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms.

Natalie, the quote from Ezekiel is future and in it you find reference to the two houses. The two sticks are the two houses and they shall be one in His hand but...we aren't yet there.

Ezekiel 37:16-17 "Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
​

The two sticks will be joined before the end of this age. His children will be sealed to the truth before the second Advent.

 

[1whirlwind]

So we will spiritually digest the literal food that we eat?

We spiritually digest His Word...it is our food. Is He literal bread? Is He literal wine?

 

[1whirlwind]

What Paul is speaking about here in Corinthians is in reference to being seperated from this world while living in this world.

2 Corinthians 6:17 "Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you."

and Jesus prayed for this as well on our behalf:

John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.

Here on earth HIS SPIRIT abides in us in a miniscule amount, when we are made imperishable it will be in an abundance.

Future Glory of Zion (which means to me, it is not here yet):

Isaiah 54:11 - 15 "O afflicted city, lashed by storms and not comforted, I will build you with stones of turquoise, your foundations with sapphires. I will make your battlements of rubies, your gates of sparkling jewels, and all your walls of precious stones. All your sons will be taught by the LORD, and great will be your children's peace. In righteousness you will be established: Tyranny will be far from you; you will have nothing to fear. Terror will be far removed; it will not come near you. If anyone does attack you, it will not be my doing; whoever attacks you will surrender to you."

See also the description of the New Jerusalem in Revelations 21.

I know Ezekiel's reference of the city to be literal, as well as that in Revelations 21 because in measuring it, literal scales are used. Why would literal scales be used to define something spiritual? Ezekiels prophecy to me is more like a blue print, where as in Isaiah and Revelations color is added.

We are the "sparkling jewels" and "precious stones" of His city. It is ALL SPIRITUAL in meaning.

Malachi 3:17 And they shall be Mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up My jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

 

[NatalieJan777]

We spiritually digest His Word...it is our food. Is He literal bread? Is He literal wine?

This is how we partake of HIM now, Literal bodies in a literal world. I am looking for proof that the New Jerusalem not yet here, will be different then this. I personally do not believe that it will, other than the evil one will be omited therefore we will have a lack of resistance to following GOD and our bodies will be glorified.

Jesus' Imperishable body ate of literal food of this world. I am not trying to be difficult, I just disagree that HIS HOLY CITY are HIS PEOPLE, if this were true HE would have come right out and said so and not seperated them (His People/His Holy City) as HE does in so many references of scripture.

In Ezekiel 34 HE goes about speaking of how HE will shephard HIS own sheep he will judge between them. Just as Jesus says, my sheep know my voice and they listen. Here it is written in Ezekiel 34:31 You my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, are people, and I am your God, declares the Sovereign Lord.

I want to see where HE says you my Holy City are my people, and I am your God. This is what I need for you to show me for me to believe, if you cannot do this, I simply cannot believe that.

 

[NatalieJan777]

We are the "sparkling jewels" and "precious stones" of His city. It is ALL SPIRITUAL in meaning.

Malachi 3:17 And they shall be Mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up My jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

Malachi 3:3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness.

This does not mean that the Levites are gold and silver does it?

Malachi 3:16-17 Then those who feared the LORD talked with each other, and the LORD listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the LORD and honored his name. "They will be mine," says the LORD Almighty, "in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him.

This in no way says what you claim it say's.

 

[Jpark]

Never mind.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I didn't realize that but...yes Zion is indeed the fulfillment of dry ground. That is so fascinating! (However, I don't see the meaning of dry ground as you do).

Mankind is dry ground. We are formed and/or created from the earth/ground. Some, not all, of the dry ground receives moisture from the "former rain" and becomes clay that can be molded. At the end of days God sends the "latter rain" to some of them and they are His very elect, His saints, His firstfruits, His man child....His spiritual Zion. They are the apostles and prophets His Spirit speaks to and through. They receive the latter rain, which is the spiritual understanding of the written word and....they in turn allow that Word to pour from them on the dry gound.

Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, IF we follow on to know the LORD: His going forth is prepared as the morning; and He shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for He hath given you the former rain moderately, and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
​

That latter rain is to give spiritual food and water....truth, to a people that are experiencing famine (parched ground) because the Word of the Lord isn't being spoken. Instead it is the word of man being heard...

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Jeremiah 13:15 Hear ye, and give ear; be not proud: for the LORD hath spoken.

Micah 6:9 The LORD's voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it.
​

The Lord's voice is in His mount Zion, in His prophets and apostles, His man child, His witnesses. They ARE "the rod" for Jesus dwells in the rod. His Words, His voice, are heard from His Zion and they "crieth unto the city." The city is Jerusalem and she is His "living city" of believers...she is the church and is experiencing a famine for "hearing the words of the Lord." They/we must "be not proud" and HEAR His voice.

Dry ground as in the waters being parted .

and there being dry ground

and the nations being parted .

and the dry ground forming .

Red Sea, Jordan with Joshua, Jordan with Elijah, Jordan with Jesus ending up in the desert ..

but day three was not over .

the seed bearing plants needed to bear fruit .

thus the cursed fig tree .

and thus the passing on of the Kingdom to a nation bearing the fruit thereof.

the people of Jesus Christ are that nation .

 

[1whirlwind]

Malachi 3:3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness.

This does not mean that the Levites are gold and silver does it?

Yes Natalie....we are His gold and silver. He refines us.

1 Corinthians 3:11-13 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

11 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

The gold and silver is refined in the fire but the wood, hay and stubble is...burned! Honour and dishonour. There is no honour or dishonour in literal gold.

Malachi 3:16-17

Then those who feared the LORD talked with each other, and the LORD listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the LORD and honored his name. "They will be mine," says the LORD Almighty, "in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him.

This in no way says what you claim it say's.

It is not what I say Natalie. He tells us that we are His Jewels. We are His treasured possession. We are also His "trees of righteousness," we are His Zion, we are His holy city.

 

[LogosRhema]

true, buy you know what i'm saying. for instance, he gave the 12 power to heal. we can not do this. so how do we know what does/does not apply to us?

The gift of healing is a gift that carries a lot of responsibility. The apostles did not receive this gift until after several years into Jesus' ministry. I tend to believe that because they walked so close with Him that they were aligned with His purposes and could be trusted with a gift with such potential good. It would be very harmful to give a 6 year old a gun, its foolishness. Likewise, healing, being that it is such a useful tool, I'm going to stand firm and say it can only be trusted with those who are REALLY aligned in the purposes of Christ. Not to say those younger/weaker in the faith can't pray and recieve healing... but the gift itself to flow freely requires one who is consistent, firm, and strong in their relationship with God. The two shall become one idea.

 

[1whirlwind]

This is how we partake of HIM now, Literal bodies in a literal world. I am looking for proof that the New Jerusalem not yet here, will be different then this. I personally do not believe that it will, other than the evil one will be omited therefore we will have a lack of resistance to following GOD and our bodies will be glorified.

Jesus' Imperishable body ate of literal food of this world. I am not trying to be difficult, I just disagree that HIS HOLY CITY are HIS PEOPLE, if this were true HE would have come right out and said so and not seperated them (His People/His Holy City) as HE does in so many references of scripture.

In Ezekiel 34 HE goes about speaking of how HE will shephard HIS own sheep he will judge between them. Just as Jesus says, my sheep know my voice and they listen. Here it is written in Ezekiel 34:31 You my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, are people, and I am your God, declares the Sovereign Lord.

I want to see where HE says you my Holy City are my people, and I am your God. This is what I need for you to show me for me to believe, if you cannot do this, I simply cannot believe that.

I can't make you believe Natalie. I can share what is revealed to me and then it is between you and our Father.

 

[1whirlwind]

Dry ground as in the waters being parted .

and there being dry ground

and the nations being parted .

and the dry ground forming .

Red Sea, Jordan with Joshua, Jordan with Elijah, Jordan with Jesus ending up in the desert ..

but day three was not over .

the seed bearing plants needed to bear fruit .

thus the cursed fig tree .

and thus the passing on of the Kingdom to a nation bearing the fruit thereof.

the people of Jesus Christ are that nation .

Yes, we are that nation!

 

[NatalieJan777]

Yes Natalie....we are His gold and silver. He refines us.

1 Corinthians 3:11-13 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

11 Timothy 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

The gold and silver is refined in the fire but the wood, hay and stubble is...burned! Honour and dishonour. There is no honour or dishonour in literal gold.



It is not what I say Natalie. He tells us that we are His Jewels. We are His treasured possession. We are also His "trees of righteousness," we are His Zion, we are His holy city.

The Levites are not gold and silver they are decendants of the tribe of Levi. They are people, the refining of them is "spiritual" but they themselves are not gold and silver.

Here is what GOD SAYS "They will be mine," says the LORD Almighty, "in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. If "they will be mine" = "make up my treasured possession" then this sentence would be written totally different.

In your reference of 1 Corinthians 3:11-13 Paul is saying that anything not of GOD built upon the foundation of Christ will not stand, only that which is of GOD will stand in that day. The day of judgement, in other words if we make up a tradition that is not founded in the word of GOD that tradition will burn up, but if we honor the Word of God and do what HE says, none of it will burn up.

1 Timothy 2:20 again the same concept, we can add traditions of man to our house but all that will be respected in the end will be that which is noble and of GOD.

 

[NatalieJan777]

I can't make you believe Natalie. I can share what is revealed to me and then it is between you and our Father.

ditto

 

[Zeena]

Zechariah 13:8-9
8And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. 9And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

 

[1whirlwind]

ditto

That is very true. We are each responsible for hearing and seeing (understanding, accepting or denying) what we are given.

Proverbs 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out My spirit unto you, I will make known My words unto you.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
​

Consider that all with the ability to read can...read the words, read the letter. It is the Spirit that "will make known My words," meaning...the deeper revelation of the written word, the spirit of the word.

11 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
​

For that reason He tells us...

1 Thessalonians 5:19-21 Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
​

 

[NatalieJan777]

Isaiah 25:6-9 On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine--the best of meats and the finest of wines. On this mountain he will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers all nations; he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove the disgrace of his people from all the earth. The LORD has spoken. In that day they will say, "Surely this is our God; we trusted in him, and he saved us. This is the LORD, we trusted in him; let us rejoice and be glad in his salvation."

Isaiah 65:18-25 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy. I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more. "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the works of their hands. They will not toil in vain or bear children doomed to misfortune; for they will be a people blessed by the LORD, they and their descendants with them. Before they call I will answer; while they are still speaking I will hear. The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD.

Since our existence in HIM will be spiritual and not literal, perhaps you can interpret what the meaning of each of these words in the above biblical references ared and then tell me why GOD describes HIS People and HIS Holy Mountain as seperate entities?

 

[1whirlwind]

Isaiah 25:6-9 On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine--the best of meats and the finest of wines. On this mountain he will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers all nations; he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove the disgrace of his people from all the earth. The LORD has spoken. In that day they will say, "Surely this is our God; we trusted in him, and he saved us. This is the LORD, we trusted in him; let us rejoice and be glad in his salvation."

Isaiah 65:18-25 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people a joy. I will rejoice over Jerusalem and take delight in my people; the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more. "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. They will build houses and dwell in them; they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit. No longer will they build houses and others live in them, or plant and others eat. For as the days of a tree, so will be the days of my people; my chosen ones will long enjoy the works of their hands. They will not toil in vain or bear children doomed to misfortune; for they will be a people blessed by the LORD, they and their descendants with them. Before they call I will answer; while they are still speaking I will hear. The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD.

Since our existence in HIM will be spiritual and not literal, perhaps you can interpret what the meaning of each of these words in the above biblical references ared and then tell me why GOD describes HIS People and HIS Holy Mountain as seperate entities?

The words have spiritual meanings for literal things. As He is the Bread, the Rock, Wine, the Morning Star, the Lamb, etc...they are symbolic of our Saviour.

The words jewels, earth, sheep, lambs, Jerusalem, Zion, stones, trees, etc. are symbolic of us. Mountains are nations, olive trees and candlesticks are the witnesses...and on and on and on.

Isaiah 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat; for as the days of a tree are the days of My People, and Mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
​

The elect are Zion and His People Jerusalem. The man child...the church.

 

[NatalieJan777]

The words have spiritual meanings for literal things. As He is the Bread, the Rock, Wine, the Morning Star, the Lamb, etc...they are symbolic of our Saviour.

The words jewels, earth, sheep, lambs, Jerusalem, Zion, stones, trees, etc. are symbolic of us. Mountains are nations, olive trees and candlesticks are the witnesses...and on and on and on.

Isaiah 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat; for as the days of a tree are the days of My People, and Mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
​

The elect are Zion and His People Jerusalem. The man child...the church.

Thank you for your time As if the bible isn't complicated enough without knowledge of all these symbols. I have no worries, I am sure what I do not know will be made known to me if it is really all that important for me to know in the age to come. God Bless!