For the apostles only?

[Zeena]

upon whom the ends of the world are come..

Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

 

[1whirlwind]

Revelations 7:4-8 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, from the tribe of Asher 12,000, from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

Of the twelve tribes only two, the "house of Judah"...Judah and Benjamin, are Jews. The other ten are the ten lost tribes, the lost sheep of the "house of Israel." All twelve are Israel but not all are Jews. The tribes are still split today. Where are the lost tribes...those Christ came for? He found us.

This is us Christians:

Revelations 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Those are the Gentiles. We may or may not be Gentiles. We may or may not be of Israel. The important point is...we are among those in white robes.

If Zion is spiritual tell me what of this?:

Ezekiel 40:2 In visions of God he took me to the land of Israel and set me on a very high mountain, on whose south side were some buildings that looked like a city.

Ezekiel 43:6 While the man was standing beside me. I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. He said: 'Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Isrealites forever ...

King James...

Ezekiel 40:2-4 In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south. And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate. And the man said unto me, Son of man, behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears, and set thine heart upon all that I shall shew thee; for to the intent that I might shew them unto thee art thou brought hither: declare all that thou seest to the house of Israel.


Ezekiel 43:7 And He said unto me, Son of man, the place of My throne, and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and My holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
​

Ezekiel is shown a vision of the millennial temple. Is it literal or is it spiritual?

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him My new name.
​

The Holy Spirit has not brought me to understand anything other than the literal meaning of scripture. I suppose to those of you with more insight, I am without the Spirit?

Your translation is a bit different from the King James for He doesn't "live among the Israelites forever" but He "will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever."
​

1 John 4:12-13 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and His love is perfected in us. Hereby know we that we dwell in Him, and He in us, because He hath given us of His Spirit.

4:15-16 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

We first learn the literal, the milk and then....the spiritual, the meat. He feeds us as we are ready and only He knows when. Be open to the spiritual meaning from Him and others.....
​

John 4:23 God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Zeena]

John 4:23 God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.

Amen.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Quick question on the gospels. When Jesus makes the numerous promises to the disciples, is he speaking to them only? All of the statements concerning prayer and faith...are these directed at them exclusively? You know, faith of a mustard seed; moving mountains; believe you have received what you pray for, and it will be yours; I will do whatever you ask in my name, you may ask for me anything in my name, and I will do it, and so on. A lot of folks like to recall these verses to prove that we have amazing power in Christ, but can we adopt these promises for ourselves?

I guess I'm asking, how do we know when something said to the disciples applies to us as well?

Well .. if it doesn't apply to me i might as well tear those pages out ..

 

[NatalieJan777]

upon whom the ends of the world are come..

Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

I do not know what biblical translation you are using, but mine says:

Ephesians 3:21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations for ever and ever! Amen

Paul is speak about GOD who yes is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

Revelation 21:6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.

And this world shall come to an end and a new one created because HE says so.

Revelations 22:18-19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, GOD will add to him the plaques described in this book. And if anyone takes away from this book of prophecy, GOD will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are describe in this book.

Zion is GOD's holy city, it is not his holy people.

 

[NatalieJan777]

Of the twelve tribes only two, the "house of Judah"...Judah and Benjamin, are Jews. The other ten are the ten lost tribes, the lost sheep of the "house of Israel." All twelve are Israel but not all are Jews. The tribes are still split today. Where are the lost tribes...those Christ came for? He found us.

Please show this to me biblically:

Those are the Gentiles. We may or may not be Gentiles. We may or may not be of Israel. The important point is...we are among those in white robes.

All will take on the name Isreal.

Isaiah 44:5 One will say, 'I belong to the LORD'; another will call himself by the name of Jacob; still another will write on his hand, 'The LORD's,' and will take the name Israel.

[/INDENT]Ezekiel is shown a vision of the millennial temple. Is it literal or is it spiritual?

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him My new name.
​

It is and will be literal, I know this with all my heart. What is a Pillar? Is Jesus speaking to only the Church at Philadelphia? Personally I believe HE is talking to all believers. If we overcome we will become a pillar (Victory) and will be given a new name, and that new name will be Israel.

Trophy of Victory is what a pillar is. Bible Dictionary: Pillar

I am not arguing that GOD does not dwell within us, this is true, but there will be an end of this world. It is biblical fact that cannot be denied. FYI I was raised on KJV but use NIV for a second reference.

I know GOD is spiritual and we must worship him in spirit and in TRUTH!

It is HIS truth we must worship HIM in and not our own.

 

[1whirlwind]

I do not know what biblical translation you are using, but mine says:

Ephesians 3:21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations for ever and ever! Amen

Paul is speak about GOD who yes is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

Revelation 21:6 He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.

And this world shall come to an end and a new one created because HE says so.

Revelations 22:18-19 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, GOD will add to him the plaques described in this book. And if anyone takes away from this book of prophecy, GOD will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are describe in this book.


Zion is GOD's holy city, it is not his holy people.

Who is the bride of Christ?

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:9-10 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

 

[Bro_Sam]

Quick question on the gospels. When Jesus makes the numerous promises to the disciples, is he speaking to them only?

If you're a born again Christian and seeking to grow daily in the grace and knowledge of the Lord, then you are one of His disciples, just as much as the Disciples in the Bible.

Just to clarify, your title says "Apostles", but your OP says "Disciples". You're know they're not the same thing, right?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The church is the bride of Christ . Paul points that out clearly in his letters .

was there something about what he said about the bride that made it unclear?

curious .

 

[1whirlwind]

The church is the bride of Christ . Paul points that out clearly in his letters .

was there something about what he said about the bride that made it unclear?

curious .

No, it's quite clear. The church is the bride and...as John shows us....the bride /church is the holy city. In other words, the holy city isn't a literal city.

 

[1whirlwind]

Please show this to me biblically:

Of the twelve tribes only two, the "house of Judah"...Judah and Benjamin, are Jews. The other ten are the ten lost tribes, the lost sheep of the "house of Israel." All twelve are Israel but not all are Jews. The tribes are still split today. Where are the lost tribes...those Christ came for? He found us.

Jew /Ju-dah / Jew-dah.

The twelve tribes split into two factions when the son of Solomon began to reign. The ten northern tribes are the....house of Israel. The two tribes that remained in Jerusalem are Judah and Benjamin. They are the...house of Judah. All twelve are Israel but not all are Jews.

The house of Israel was taken captive by the Assyrian and two hundred years later the house of Judah was captured by the king of Babylon. The house of Judah returned...the house of Israel didn't. Where are they?

Jesus instructed His disciples to.....

Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
​

And He Himself....

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
​

Who carries His name today? Christ/Christian.

All will take on the name Isreal.

Isaiah 44:5 One will say, 'I belong to the LORD'; another will call himself by the name of Jacob; still another will write on his hand, 'The LORD's,' and will take the name Israel.



It is and will be literal, I know this with all my heart. What is a Pillar? Is Jesus speaking to only the Church at Philadelphia? Personally I believe HE is talking to all believers. If we overcome we will become a pillar (Victory) and will be given a new name, and that new name will be Israel.

Natalie, the point is...the pillar is NOT a literal pillar. It is spiritual. The temple is not literal, it is spiritual. The holy city isn't literal, it is spiritual.

Trophy of Victory is what a pillar is. Bible Dictionary: Pillar

I am not arguing that GOD does not dwell within us, this is true, but there will be an end of this world. It is biblical fact that cannot be denied. FYI I was raised on KJV but use NIV for a second reference.

I know GOD is spiritual and we must worship him in spirit and in TRUTH!

It is HIS truth we must worship HIM in and not our own.

Yes, there will be a literal end to this age...not the world but this age.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

No, it's quite clear. The church is the bride and...as John shows us....the bride /church is the holy city. In other words, the holy city isn't a literal city.

well it is in one sense .. and it isn't in another sense

it is a living city perhaps

Ephesians 2

22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

 

[1whirlwind]

well it is in one sense .. and it isn't in another sense

it is a living city perhaps

Ephesians 2

22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

Yes, we live, are spiritually alive, because He dwells in us, abides in us, walks in us. Some are His mount Zion, others His city of Jerusalem....all are Israel.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yes, we live, are spiritually alive, because He dwells in us, abides in us, walks in us. Some are His mount Zion, others His city of Jerusalem....all are Israel.

Zion means parched place .

Zion is the fulfillment of dry ground .

The dry ground is the will of God that reveals to us that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God

and yes . all in the new covenant are ones in whom "God prevails"

 

[NatalieJan777]

Who is the bride of Christ?

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:9-10 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Isaiah 62:1-12 For Zion's sake I will not keep silent, for Jerusalem's sake I will not remain quiet, till her righteousness shines out like the dawn, her salvation like a blazing torch. The nations will see your righteousness, and all kings your glory; you will be called by a new name that the mouth of the LORD will bestow. You will be a crown of splendor in the LORD's hand, a royal diadem in the hand of your God. No longer will they call you Deserted, or name your land Desolate. But you will be called Hephzibah, and your land Beulah; for the LORD will take delight in you, and your land will be married. As a young man marries a maiden, so will your sons marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you. I have posted watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem; they will never be silent day or night. You who call on the LORD, give yourselves no rest, and give him no rest till he establishes Jerusalem and makes her the praise of the earth.The LORD has sworn by his right hand and by his mighty arm: "Never again will I give your grain as food for your enemies, and never again will foreigners drink the new wine for which you have toiled; but those who harvest it will eat it and praise the LORD, and those who gather the grapes will drink it in the courts of my sanctuary." Pass through, pass through the gates! Prepare the way for the people. Build up, build up the highway! Remove the stones. Raise a banner for the nations. The LORD has made proclamation to the ends of the earth: "Say to the Daughter of Zion, 'See, your Savior comes! See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him.'" They will be called the Holy People, the Redeemed of the LORD; and you will be called Sought After, the City No Longer Deserted.

He is talking about HIS HOLY CITY the NEW JERUSALEM, also refered to in OT as ZION (Jerusalem) when he references the earthly city to HIS HOLY CITY that will come from Heaven. This is a literal city. If HE ever meant for us not to take it literally, he would have said MY dwelling place is now in my Holy People and not in MY HOLY CITY.

 

[NatalieJan777]

How I know with all my heart it will be literal and not spiritual is because I believe Christ Jesus.

Luke 24:36-44 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you." They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have." When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence.

He was the first to be raise in the imperishable flesh, and those who believe in HIM will take on the glorified bodies as well.

1 Corinthians 15:51 - 54 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

You might as well give up on conviencing me differently, because I believe the witness of the Holy Scriptures.

It will be a literal City and those who overcome will be clothed with literal imperishable bodies.

 

[1whirlwind]

Zion means parched place .

Zion is the fulfillment of dry ground .

The dry ground is the will of God that reveals to us that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God

and yes . all in the new covenant are ones in whom "God prevails"

I didn't realize that but...yes Zion is indeed the fulfillment of dry ground. That is so fascinating! (However, I don't see the meaning of dry ground as you do).

Mankind is dry ground. We are formed and/or created from the earth/ground. Some, not all, of the dry ground receives moisture from the "former rain" and becomes clay that can be molded. At the end of days God sends the "latter rain" to some of them and they are His very elect, His saints, His firstfruits, His man child....His spiritual Zion. They are the apostles and prophets His Spirit speaks to and through. They receive the latter rain, which is the spiritual understanding of the written word and....they in turn allow that Word to pour from them on the dry gound.

Hosea 6:3 Then shall we know, IF we follow on to know the LORD: His going forth is prepared as the morning; and He shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for He hath given you the former rain moderately, and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
​

That latter rain is to give spiritual food and water....truth, to a people that are experiencing famine (parched ground) because the Word of the Lord isn't being spoken. Instead it is the word of man being heard...

Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

Jeremiah 13:15 Hear ye, and give ear; be not proud: for the LORD hath spoken.

Micah 6:9 The LORD's voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it.
​

The Lord's voice is in His mount Zion, in His prophets and apostles, His man child, His witnesses. They ARE "the rod" for Jesus dwells in the rod. His Words, His voice, are heard from His Zion and they "crieth unto the city." The city is Jerusalem and she is His "living city" of believers...she is the church and is experiencing a famine for "hearing the words of the Lord." They/we must "be not proud" and HEAR His voice.

 

[1whirlwind]

Isaiah 62:1-12 For Zion's sake I will not keep silent, for Jerusalem's sake I will not remain quiet, till her righteousness shines out like the dawn, her salvation like a blazing torch. The nations will see your righteousness, and all kings your glory; you will be called by a new name that the mouth of the LORD will bestow. You will be a crown of splendor in the LORD's hand, a royal diadem in the hand of your God. No longer will they call you Deserted, or name your land Desolate. But you will be called Hephzibah, and your land Beulah; for the LORD will take delight in you, and your land will be married. As a young man marries a maiden, so will your sons marry you; as a bridegroom rejoices over his bride, so will your God rejoice over you. I have posted watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem; they will never be silent day or night. You who call on the LORD, give yourselves no rest, and give him no rest till he establishes Jerusalem and makes her the praise of the earth.The LORD has sworn by his right hand and by his mighty arm: "Never again will I give your grain as food for your enemies, and never again will foreigners drink the new wine for which you have toiled; but those who harvest it will eat it and praise the LORD, and those who gather the grapes will drink it in the courts of my sanctuary." Pass through, pass through the gates! Prepare the way for the people. Build up, build up the highway! Remove the stones. Raise a banner for the nations. The LORD has made proclamation to the ends of the earth: "Say to the Daughter of Zion, 'See, your Savior comes! See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him.'" They will be called the Holy People, the Redeemed of the LORD; and you will be called Sought After, the City No Longer Deserted.

He is talking about HIS HOLY CITY the NEW JERUSALEM, also refered to in OT as ZION (Jerusalem) when he references the earthly city to HIS HOLY CITY that will come from Heaven. This is a literal city. If HE ever meant for us not to take it literally, he would have said MY dwelling place is now in my Holy People and not in MY HOLY CITY.

The holy city and His holy people are one and the same. He did tell us....

11 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[1whirlwind]

How I know with all my heart it will be literal and not spiritual is because I believe Christ Jesus.

Luke 24:36-44 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you." They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have." When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence.

He was the first to be raise in the imperishable flesh, and those who believe in HIM will take on the glorified bodies as well.

1 Corinthians 15:51 - 54 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

You might as well give up on conviencing me differently, because I believe the witness of the Holy Scriptures.

It will be a literal City and those who overcome will be clothed with literal imperishable bodies.

We are literal people, we will have literal imperishable bodies and we are His city. Being spiritual doesn't mean we float around like ecotoplasm. Consider the angels. They are seen, they speak, they eat, they walk. They are spiritual beings but they have mass. We are they...they are us. When we physically die our spiritual body steps out and returns to the Father.

We too shall be "flesh and bones." No longer flesh and blood.

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
​

We are to give our blood as atonement. We are to be spiritually crucified with Him while in a flesh body...to be flesh and bones!

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


​

 

[NatalieJan777]

Jew /Ju-dah / Jew-dah.

The twelve tribes split into two factions when the son of Solomon began to reign. The ten northern tribes are the....house of Israel. The two tribes that remained in Jerusalem are Judah and Benjamin. They are the...house of Judah. All twelve are Israel but not all are Jews.

The house of Israel was taken captive by the Assyrian and two hundred years later the house of Judah was captured by the king of Babylon. The house of Judah returned...the house of Israel didn't. Where are they?

GOD did not divide the Kingdom, man did.

This does not biblically prove anything to me, I need chapter verse, etc....

Read Ezekiel 37:28

Ezekiel 37:22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms.