for the agnostic.....

[Par5]

43 years, 4 months of experience.

What!! You've experienced 43 years and four months in the lake of fire Wow!

 

[TLK Valentine]

For years we've heard that Huxley said---

It's not likely God can be known.

Yet, in Jeremiah 24:7, we read---- I will give them a heart to know me.

So..... I have to wonder.....

Why would you believe a guy who's been dead now for a good 140 years, when God clearly stated that he will give you what you need to know him?

Because the person who wrote that God said that has been dead now a good 2,500 years...

Jesus said in John 17:3, that eternal life consists of knowing God, and Jesus whom God sent.

I've debated quite a few creationists over in the science forums... and some of them are quite fond of the "were you there?" argument.

Assuming for the moment that he did indeed say this, what of it? It's still a matter that must be taken on faith, not fact.

And just so that we're clear here......

None of us knew if God was real before we started following Jesus. Sure, we'd heard stories, maybe even grew up in church, but those were someone else's stories. that was someone else's history.

I would suggest that you still don't "know" He is real -- you believe He is real based on an experience you had which convinced you to your satisfaction. Agnostics such as myself have had no such experience; certainly nothing that has convinced us to the same extent as, say, yourself -- and just so we're clear here..... it would do you no good to describe your own experience as convincing evidence; revelation is pretty much the ultimate "you had to be there" moment.

In Isaiah 40:12, we read that God holds the cosmos in the span of his hand. Anyone have any idea just how big the cosmos is? It's a lot bigger than the 13.8 billion light years we're told how old it is..... size of the universe - Google Search

The universe is BIG. It would be difficult for anyone to look up at the night sky and not come to that conclusion.

I don't see how this fact supports your thesis.

According to Isaiah 57:15, we read that God inhabits eternity, and yet dwells with the humble and contrite.....

Odd for the infinite to dwell over the infinitesimal.

We further read in Hebrews 7:25 that God saves ALL who come to him through Jesus Christ.

And we further read in Matthew 7:21 that this is not necessarily the case.

Come to Jesus and find out for yourselves.

Jesus said he won't turn away anyone who comes to him.

As an agnostic, I'm waiting for an experience that convinces me that there is truth to it. It would be dishonest to myself -- and to God, if it turns out that He exists -- for me to simply go through the motions without sincerely believing.

 

[muichimotsu]

For years we've heard that Huxley said---

It's not likely God can be known.

Yet, in Jeremiah 24:7, we read---- I will give them a heart to know me.

So..... I have to wonder.....

Why would you believe a guy who's been dead now for a good 140 years, when God clearly stated that he will give you what you need to know him?

Jesus said in John 17:3, that eternal life consists of knowing God, and Jesus whom God sent.

And just so that we're clear here......

None of us knew if God was real before we started following Jesus. Sure, we'd heard stories, maybe even grew up in church, but those were someone else's stories. that was someone else's history.

In Isaiah 40:12, we read that God holds the cosmos in the span of his hand. Anyone have any idea just how big the cosmos is? It's a lot bigger than the 13.8 billion light years we're told how old it is..... size of the universe - Google Search

According to Isaiah 57:15, we read that God inhabits eternity, and yet dwells with the humble and contrite.....

We further read in Hebrews 7:25 that God saves ALL who come to him through Jesus Christ.

Come to Jesus and find out for yourselves.

Jesus said he won't turn away anyone who comes to him.

If all you're going to utilize is the bible, that's literally circular logic, you're appealing to the very thing that already has the thing you're trying to argue for as accepted, but that isn't sound reasoning

If your god was obvious, we wouldn't have several monotheistic religions that disagree about what "God" entails and the revelations disagreeing to boot

And Huxley being more recent doesn't make him less valid in the same way that the Bible being, let's be generous, 2000 years old, maybe 2500, the oldest texts being roughly 500 BCE, iirc, doesn't make it MORE valid, that's more fallacious reasoning

 

[Ophiolite]

For years we've heard that Huxley said---
"It's not likely God can be known."
Yet, in Jeremiah 24:7, we read---- I will give them a heart to know me.
So..... I have to wonder.....
Why would you believe a guy who's been dead now for a good 140 years, when God clearly stated that he will give you what you need to know him?

I can (and indeed do) agree with Huxley, not because he made that statement, but because I arrived at the same conclusion before I was even aware of Huxley. (As to belief, see my reply to your third quote below.)

As stated, I've been at this for several decades now, and have actually been talking with atheists, agnostics, etc... online, for the past 2 decades, and have paid very close attention to their claims, lack of claims, ideas, lack of ideas, professions, and lack of professions. I've examined their ideas, and found them to be based entirely on a lack of knowledge, a lack of experience, and a lack of awareness, or understanding.

It is this level of hubris on the part of other Christians that contributed to my first reservations about my faith. Something you could well benefit from by reflecting on, but seem likely to avoid.

Let's see if you are a blind faith kind of person.
Do you believe in the big bang?
Do you believe in evolution?
Do you really think that what "science" claims took place millions and billions of years ago actually happened?

I don't believe in the Big Bang.
I don't believe in evolution.

I do accept that the Big Bang offers us the best current explanation for a mutltitude of observations.
I do accept that evolutionary theory offers us the best current explanation for a mutltitude of observations.

If new evidence, or improved interpretations of the current evidence comes along, then I'll lean to acceptance of those new positions.

I certainly accept as most probable the various conclusions (provisional as always) of science regarding events in the past. This is especially true within aspects of the Earth's pre-history which I have invested considerable personal time in investigating, directly and indirectly.

I have a disparaging view of the concept of "belief". It has all the appearance of a simplistic, naive convenience that avoids the need for challenging and uncomfortable thinking. That - obviously - is a personal view.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

For years we've heard that Huxley said---

It's not likely God can be known.

Yet, in Jeremiah 24:7, we read---- I will give them a heart to know me.

So..... I have to wonder.....

Why would you believe a guy who's been dead now for a good 140 years, when God clearly stated that he will give you what you need to know him?

Jesus said in John 17:3, that eternal life consists of knowing God, and Jesus whom God sent.

And just so that we're clear here......

None of us knew if God was real before we started following Jesus. Sure, we'd heard stories, maybe even grew up in church, but those were someone else's stories. that was someone else's history.

In Isaiah 40:12, we read that God holds the cosmos in the span of his hand. Anyone have any idea just how big the cosmos is? It's a lot bigger than the 13.8 billion light years we're told how old it is..... size of the universe - Google Search

According to Isaiah 57:15, we read that God inhabits eternity, and yet dwells with the humble and contrite.....

We further read in Hebrews 7:25 that God saves ALL who come to him through Jesus Christ.

Come to Jesus and find out for yourselves.

Jesus said he won't turn away anyone who comes to him.

Anyone can claim some kind of divine revelation, but that doesn't mean that it in itself is an absolute truth that must be taken at face value. This is also a form of circular reasoning, where you're basically trying to use the Bible to prove the Bible.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

For years we've heard that Huxley said---

It's not likely God can be known.

Yet, in Jeremiah 24:7, we read---- I will give them a heart to know me.

So..... I have to wonder.....

Why would you believe a guy who's been dead now for a good 140 years, when God clearly stated that he will give you what you need to know him?

Where did you establish that God clearly stated anything? You quoted a book which was written by a human being.

Jesus said in John 17:3, that eternal life consists of knowing God, and Jesus whom God sent.

The author of John was anonymous and wrote his story 60 years later in another language. It is clearly a second-hand source (at best) and no original sources are provided.

And just so that we're clear here......

None of us knew if God was real before we started following Jesus. Sure, we'd heard stories, maybe even grew up in church, but those were someone else's stories. that was someone else's history.

I've never found a Christian that actually follows Jesus, and furthermore, I don't see the connection between following Jesus and knowing that God is real.

In Isaiah 40:12, we read that God holds the cosmos in the span of his hand. Anyone have any idea just how big the cosmos is? It's a lot bigger than the 13.8 billion light years we're told how old it is..... size of the universe - Google Search

Other religions suppose that the universe is the dream of a creator. Is that something you find to be convincing?

According to Isaiah 57:15, we read that God inhabits eternity, and yet dwells with the humble and contrite.....

Why do you keep quoting Isaiah? He had a mental disorder. He walked around butt naked for years. He ordered people to watch him have sex with a prophetess.

We further read in Hebrews 7:25 that God saves ALL who come to him through Jesus Christ.

And when you go to church you're pressured to open your wallet. It's just another scam.

Come to Jesus and find out for yourselves.

How does one come to Jesus, and how does this make me actually know I'm saved, and what is it I'm saved from?

Jesus said he won't turn away anyone who comes to him.

Seems desperate. I'd rather that there be entrance requirements to keep the riffraff out.