for husbands and wives, headship?

[peterc]

Marriage is teamwork...decisions are made together. You have got to let this in-charge stuff go or you'll be divorced in two years

 

[Warrior Poet]

OK.

But men and women IMO, then, are the same. You are referring to "roles" and labels that are different. Men and women need different things agreed, she wants to shop for clothes and i will buy books, personal experience im referring too, if you are happy placing that upon her and yourself. Thats fine. . Its just not for me. It seems that you focus in the differneces more then the similaities its like you dwell on what seperates the two. (Given I dont know you....but i know what i read when you post) I think what you are missing is that each relationship the "roles" wont be the same the situations will differ from one married couple to the other...ITS THE BEAUTY OF IT ALL...... as in what Blessed75 said...her man is perfectly fine letting her make the decision. That doesnt make him less of a man or not fulfilling his "role". In their relationship it is his "role". That is biblical as well. Knowing your "role" and being happy with it.

The man is the head but the woman is the neck she gets to make the head turn whichever way she wants....I love that.

Edit: I dont want my wife to let me represent her...i want us to represent us...not me for her or her for me....this is essentially why i cant and wil never agree with your point.

Warrior Poet

 

[DaveKerwin]

One flesh means you represent each other

When her and I have kids, I want ONE voice as the final say with decisions. I could care less if it were her voice and she said "I spoke with your father and we ....."

Think of it like the presidency. George Bush is the front man, but surely he does not make decisions alone. If he was honest, he would probably tell you that his advisors clue him in on what should be done, and he does that. But if there was something that he (as the leader) felt was absolutely necessary, he would use that God given authority. Can you imagine what our country would be like if AL Gore was co-president, ewww. Having more than one head does not make sence. Another thought; if God gave me a daughter one day who was getting married, when the pastor asks who gives this woman to be married, I will reply "Her Mother and I." I would not just say that I do, rather both of us, because I would speak for my wife as the head of our family.

 

[Warrior Poet]

Another thought; if God gave me a daughter one day who was getting married, when the pastor asks who gives this woman to be married, I will reply "Her Mother and I." I would not just say that I do, rather both of us, because I would speak for my wife as the head of our family.

And I WOULD NEVER compare a marriage to the presidency....LOL.

And I would have my wife stand by me and this is what I would say:

WP: "I do"
Mrs. WP: "As do I"


Warrior Poet

 

[Bookman]

I find it extremely interesting that we have so many couples who basically edge their way around the headship question and say that neither is the head, that they work as a team...and at the same time there are more divorces among Christians than non-Christians. Hmm. Could there be a correlation between Christians' marriages breaking up and their eagerness to live according to how they want to instead of what the Word teaches?

But before you flame me, I'm not advocating husband abuse...in fact, as an earlier poster noted, husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church. The truth is that few Christian husbands do practice this kind of sacrifical love. If they did, I think it would be easier for wives to submit. But in any event, Christian marriages are in deep trouble and I think it's in part because we read the Word and then go ahead and run our marriages according to our own preconceived notions.

My wife acknowledges me as head...but without her, I would be a mighty poor head. She's wise, wonderful and an excellent help mate. I couldn't make it without her. She's the best!

 

[marthag003]

my husband is the "head" of our family. this doesnt bother me...i think God will hold husbands responsible for what goes on in their families...and i dont want this responsibiliy. people think the bible says for husbands to be a "dictator" over their wives. and that it not what the bible says.

although if a husband insists he is the "boss" then i would recommend a salary for the wife.

 

[Dawn Marie]

We decide together, but if a decision HAD to be made that was for the best of my family, I would be trusted to make that decision.

I never understood this. That sounds to me like "women aren't capable of making important decisions"...

 

[snoopy2]

My understanding is that 'Headship' = final arbiter; just as the Bible should be the final arbiter for Christian life, marriage, worship etc. etc. etc., whether PC in contemporary society or not .

 

[Flipper]

I find it extremely interesting that we have so many couples who basically edge their way around the headship question and say that neither is the head, that they work as a team...and at the same time there are more divorces among Christians than non-Christians. Hmm. Could there be a correlation between Christians' marriages breaking up and their eagerness to live according to how they want to instead of what the Word teaches?

I was thinking about that, but not in exactly the same way you are. I am flamed by many of my Christian friends for saying that my husband and I work as a team and that our marriage works and we are extremely happy - they say that we are living as we want and not what the Word teaches, etc. etc... I find it very interesting, well, disturbing rather, that those same people flaming me and telling me that we aren't handling our marriage as it says in Ephesians 5, also have serious problems in their marriages.

 

[P3nguin1]

it means I see them no better then me and I no better then them eqaul in purpose and "role". Especially in marriage.

That is biblical as well. Knowing your "role" and being happy with it.

Biblically our roles are quite different and well defined. We are not equal in our role (although we are equal as persons), in fact we have two separate and distinct roles according to the Bible.

"22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[2] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless." Eph. 5:22-27


Your words may be very PC, and many people "of the world" would like to think that man and women have the same role in marriage, but it is simply not Scripture. If it is not Scripture, then it is simply wrong. Tell me, how can you read the above passage and say that a clearly defined "Head" of the family does not exist?

And as humorous as the neck forcing the head to turn, well it just dosnt follow the analogy, unless you think Christ (the head) can be turned by the Church (us).

 

[P3nguin1]

I never understood this. That sounds to me like "women aren't capable of making important decisions"...

It isn't saying that at all. Allow me to quote a post of mine from a similar discussion:





God knows us better than we know us.

God knows what is good for us FAR better than we know what is good for us.

The Bible seems to point out some "gender roles" in the form of separate instructions for a husband and a wife. If you look at those roles as a whole they are fully equal and fully complimentary.

In short, wives are instructed to be submissive to their husbands. All this really means is that you need to put his needs above yours.

Husbands are instructed to love their wives as Christ loved the Church. Christ loved the Church so much that He gave His life up for it. In short that means putting your wifes needs above your own.

Both instructions are the same goal, just a different way of acheiving it.

If a man is fufilling his role as a Husband, as stated in the Bible, then his wife would honestly have NO problem being "submissive" because she trusts that his decision will be the best choice for the entire family, not for his gratification.

A "real man" will always consider his personal feelings third (Gods will first, her needs second) and will never make a decision without consulting the other half of his flesh.

When "push comes to shove" a decision needs to be made and if you cant agree one person has to make it. A "real man" will keep in mind that his tie breaking vote does not mean it always has to go his way. A loving attitude would be to let her win just as often as you do.

A real man picks and chooses his battles becaue with the power of being head of the house comes the great responsibility of putting your family's needs above your own.

 

[Warrior Poet]

Your words may be very PC, and many people "of the world" would like to think that man and women have the same role in marriage, but it is simply not Scripture. If it is not Scripture, then it is simply wrong. Tell me, how can you read the above passage and say that a clearly defined "Head" of the family does not exist?

Just very PC huh...
If you need to apply the "roles" and have them drawn out and enforced be my guest. I know my "role"...I dont need to point it out to anyone biblical backing or not. Im not going to presume myself better then someone...especially my wife or "head" over her...wether thats biblical or not. I guess accroding to you I am sinning then and going againist Christ....right. I still find it weird that Christ himself never referred to himself as the "head". He said alot of stuff that wasnt one of them. This doesnt imply he isnt....he just never straight out said it. Nor does he ever say he is better then anyone.

Well you are having the same issue Dave did in the other thread I said I wont go around calling myself the "head" if she, my wife, views me as such fine I dont ask for the title....or the label....or defined as such....but i will act with responsibilty in my marriage. I also find this particular paragraph...and the "if its not in scripture" remark odd given your current living situation......not a personal attack of any kind... just irony I guess *shrug*

And as humorous as the neck forcing the head to turn, well it just dosnt follow the analogy, unless you think Christ (the head) can be turned by the Church (us).

No i dont think so but I do think the defining of "head" would be relevant at this point. I see two clear definitions. Its something in the two threads I have discussed this in has no one has defined what the "head" is ....just its "role".

If Christ is the head of the church as I belive He is...we worship Him, praise Him, give Him what we have, We turn our lives over to the "Head", and Pray to the "Head". We live for the "Head"....the "Head" is our everything. Thats how the church views the head taken literally..... in action and in "role".

If thats the defined "head"....i dont want my wife to see me as the "head"....i dont want any of that.

IMO the "Head" is love, joy, sacrifice, eqaulity,fair, caring, "dying" to ones self and for ones self for the good of others (or other in the realm of marriage)....All the great attributes that make Christ what He is as the "Head"....and incidently what people dislike about Him so much.

Thats the "Head" I see that is being talked about in the quoted scripture. You are to submitt to those attributes not to a role....again in my non-biblical thinking i see a defined "head".....i see it in her...and i hope she see that in me. Perfect partners, where the head is attributes of Christ not man or woman or defined "roles".

Thats how i do it.

If its not how you or other do it thats fine with me.

Warrior Poet

 

[Warrior Poet]

Biblically our roles are quite different and well defined. We are not equal in our role (although we are equal as persons), in fact we have two separate and distinct roles according to the Bible.

The Bible seems to point out some "gender roles" in the form of separate instructions for a husband and a wife. If you look at those roles as a whole they are fully equal and fully complimentary.

???????

Warrior Poet

 

[JillLars]

We cannot just say "person" and think that it all is the same. Men are different from women. Women have inherent needs that men do not, and vice versa.

I disagree. Unless you are talking about the things society tells us we need (like different clothes, ect.) men and women do have the same inherent needs. Ever heard of Maslow's hierarchy?

 

[charligirl]

my husband is the "head" of our family. this doesnt bother me...i think God will hold husbands responsible for what goes on in their families...and i dont want this responsibiliy. people think the bible says for husbands to be a "dictator" over their wives. and that it not what the bible says.

although if a husband insists he is the "boss" then i would recommend a salary for the wife.

lol

 

[charligirl]

One flesh means you represent each other

When her and I have kids, I want ONE voice as the final say with decisions. I could care less if it were her voice and she said "I spoke with your father and we ....."

Think of it like the presidency. George Bush is the front man, but surely he does not make decisions alone. If he was honest, he would probably tell you that his advisors clue him in on what should be done, and he does that. But if there was something that he (as the leader) felt was absolutely necessary, he would use that God given authority. .

I agree both make the decision,....Men and women are very different and have different strengths and weaknesses and God made us that way. For example (and I am generalising here) If you have a situation where you have anumber of options to choose from the man generally cannot cope with 10 options... the woman however can. Women can multitask, multithink and whittle down from , say, 10 to 3 options. That is her forte... however, once it comes to making the final decision on which of the 3, women often stumble. Decision making is the man's forte.. he can make a final decision from 3 and so both women and man have used their strengths together to make a decision.

 

[peterc]

It seems that many of you are preoccupied with power rather then making a marriage work. Okay lets say your in charge, without opposition of any kind, you need not discuss anything, how does that make your marriage better..workable?? How long before your wife leaves you because you treat her like a subordinate??

 

[DaveKerwin]

I still find it weird that Christ himself never referred to himself as the "head". He said alot of stuff that wasnt one of them. This doesnt imply he isnt....he just never straight out said it. Nor does he ever say he is better then anyone.


Warrior Poet

REALLY? You know, that is very interesting because the Jesus that I read about claimed his authority over the church. Here are three verses from only one gospel account. Please note that Jesus was KNOWN to have authority, and he SAID HIMSELF that he has authority. In Matt7, the church heard him speak with authority, and they treated his as an authority. In Matt9, Jesus goes beyond that and claims authority over all, doing a miracle to prove it. Lastly in Matt28, Jesus once again tells the people (aka the church) that ALL authority has been given to him. See for yourself!



Matthew 7: 28-29a
When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, because he taught as one who had authority

Matthew 9:6
But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...." Then he said to the paralytic, "Get up, take your mat and go home."

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."


WP, he did straight up say it, you just read it. While Jesus was a gentle man, he was also a man to exert his authority. What do you have to say to this?

 

[DaveKerwin]

I disagree. Unless you are talking about the things society tells us we need (like different clothes, ect.) men and women do have the same inherent needs. Ever heard of Maslow's hierarchy?

I am not talking about society or about maslow, I am talking about what he who created us had to say. Did you ever read the first section of Genesis and observe how God made Adam and Eve at different times, to do different things?

I find that men and women have many of the same needs, yet some gender specific needs as well.

 

[DaveKerwin]

I find it extremely interesting that we have so many couples who basically edge their way around the headship question and say that neither is the head, that they work as a team...and at the same time there are more divorces among Christians than non-Christians. Hmm. Could there be a correlation between Christians' marriages breaking up and their eagerness to live according to how they want to instead of what the Word teaches?

But before you flame me, I'm not advocating husband abuse...in fact, as an earlier poster noted, husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church. The truth is that few Christian husbands do practice this kind of sacrifical love. If they did, I think it would be easier for wives to submit. But in any event, Christian marriages are in deep trouble and I think it's in part because we read the Word and then go ahead and run our marriages according to our own preconceived notions.

My wife acknowledges me as head...but without her, I would be a mighty poor head. She's wise, wonderful and an excellent help mate. I couldn't make it without her. She's the best!

Great post.