For creationists: give me your arguments against evolution.

[AV1611VET]

It'll take a lot more than evolution to get me to reject the Bible.

What would it take?

What did it take you?

 

[AV1611VET]

Freedom is the freedom to believe that 2 + 2 = 5.

Indeed.

Two couples in a church equal five persons.

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Daniel 3:24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Did you know there were nine people on the Ark?

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you know you are doing it, answering a question with a question,

I am?

... perhaps you know exactly what you are doing.

I do?

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Do you know you are doing it, answering a question with a question, perhaps you know exactly what you are doing.

A match made in heaven.
Nadia meet AV

 

[FreedByte]

What did it take you?

Absence of evidence for one religion over another.

 

[SkyWriting]

Well, that doesn't square with the cosmology the clerics were defending. It still allows for a moving sun and accepts a rotating earth. Those are the things the clerics denied, based on scripture. And they were wrong to do that, they were just as sincere in their day as the evolution deniers are today, they had exactly the same justification, and so we see how empty that same justification really is. It fails today as it did then. They fail to see that today as they failed to see that then.

I'm not sure who wrote the history book you worship and wallow in.
Go ahead and bath in sins of the what you read as history. Enjoy.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

I'm not sure who wrote the history book you worship and wallow in.
Go ahead and bath in sins of the what you read as history. Enjoy.

Don't you hate it when all the facts are against you?

 

[AV1611VET]

Don't you hate it when all the facts are against you?

Nope.

Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Me, earlier:

Don't you hate it when all the facts are against you?

Nope. . . . .

Well, I suppose that explains things.

 

[bhsmte]

Don't you hate it when all the facts are against you?

And to watch those defense mechanisms pop into action, to protect from these facts.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, I suppose that explains things.

Should I hate it when "facts" point to the Gospels being written anonymously and centuries after the crucifixion?

Should I let those "facts" get in the way of my beliefs?

Should I hate it when "facts" point to a local Flood, and not a global one?

Should I let those "facts" get in the way of my beliefs?

Should churches preach from the Bible, or Scientific American?

 

[bhsmte]

Should I hate it when "facts" point to the Gospels being written anonymously and centuries after the crucifixion?

Actually decades after the crucifixion. It is true, we only have copies of the gospels, starting centuries after the crucifixion.

Should I let those "facts" get in the way of my beliefs?

That is up to you.

Should I hate it when "facts" point to a local Flood, and not a global one?

Up to you.

Should I let those "facts" get in the way of my beliefs?

Up to you.

Should churches preach from the Bible, or Scientific American?

It depends on the church, since they all preach different things.

 

[AV1611VET]

That is up to you.

Up to you.

Up to you.

Then I won't hate it when facts get in the way.

Facts can take a hike.

 

[bhsmte]

Then I won't hate it when facts get in the way.

Facts can take a hike.

That would be your choice.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Then I won't hate it when facts get in the way.

Facts can take a hike.

I will pray for you.

 

[AV1611VET]

I will pray for you.

Thank you!

 

[Loudmouth]

So "the only explanation for the differences that makes any sense is genetic descent."

And the only explanation for the similarities that makes any sense is genetic descent?

Hmmm. I'm stuck.
It seems that everything needs to fit your assumptions and faith right away.

We don't need to assume that life falls into a nested hierarchy. That is an observed fact. We also don't need to assume that evolutionary mechanisms would produce a nested hierarchy because we can observe that very thing in real populations.

The observations fit the mechanisms. Fact.

 

[justlookinla]

We don't need to assume that life falls into a nested hierarchy. That is an observed fact. We also don't need to assume that evolutionary mechanisms would produce a nested hierarchy because we can observe that very thing in real populations.

The observations fit the mechanisms. Fact.

Complex, functional and information-rich machines require a designer/creator. Fact!

 

[WirSindBettler]

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Or who shut in the sea with doors when it burst out from the womb, when I made clouds its garment and thick darkness its swaddling band, and prescribed limits for it and set bars and doors, and said, ‘Thus far shall you come, and no farther, and here shall your proud waves be stayed’?

Have you commanded the morning since your days began, and caused the dawn to know its place, that it might take hold of the skirts of the earth, and the wicked be shaken out of it? It is changed like clay under the seal, and its features stand out like a garment. From the wicked their light is withheld, and their uplifted arm is broken.

Have you entered into the springs of the sea, or walked in the recesses of the deep? Have the gates of death been revealed to you, or have you seen the gates of deep darkness? Have you comprehended the expanse of the earth? Declare, if you know all this."

-Job 38:4-18 ESV

“For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

-John 5:46-47

And what did Moses say? Read Genesis!

Really, the issue of evolution comes down to whether or not you believe:

“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”

-2 Timothy 3:16-17

To believe in evolution, one must believe in the survival in the fittest, and that death is necessary to create modern life. By affirming this, you deny Scripture when it says:

“Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned - To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.”
-Romans 5:12-14

As for those who propose the Day-Age theory of what they deem “Theistic Evolution,” let’s find out what a “day” roughly constitutes.

If Abraham was called at the age of 75, and my Lutheran Study Bible from CPH marks this call as c. 2091 BC (lets get rid of the c. so that we can hypothesize this math), then Abraham must have been born in 2166 BC.

Now Terah fathered Abram at the age of 70, so he was born in 2236 BC. Nahor fathered Terah at the age of 29, so he was born in 2265 BC. Serug fathered Nahor at the age of 30, so he was born in 2295 BC. Reu fathered Serug at the age of 32, so he was born in 2327 BC. Peleg fathered Reu at the age of 30, so he was born in 2357 BC. Eber fathered Peleg at the age of 34, so he was born in 2391 BC. Shelah fathered Eber at the age of 30, so he was born in 2421 BC. Arpachshad fathered Shelah at the age of 35, so he was born in 2456 BC. Shem fathered Arpachshad at the age of 100, so he was born in 2556 BC. Noah fathered Shem at the age of 500, so he was born in 3056 BC. Lamech fathered Noah at the age of 182, so he was born in 3238 BC. Methuselah fathered Lamech at the age of 187, so he was born in 3425 BC. Enoch fathered Methuselah at the age of 65, so he was born in 3490 BC. Jared fathered Enoch at the age of 162, so he was born in 3652 BC. Mahalalel fathered Jared at the age of 65, so he was born in 3717 BC. Kenan fathered Mahalalel at the age of 70, so he was born in 3787 BC. Enosh fathered Kenan at the age of 90, so he was born in 3877 BC. Seth fathered Enosh at the age of 105, so he was born in 3982 BC. Adam fathered Seth at the age of 130, so he, by this logic, was created in 4112 BC.

Let’s put the “Scientific” age of the Earth at 4.54 Billion Years for the sake of Argument. Subtract 6,127 years from Adam to the present, (4,540,000,000-6127) and you get 4,539,993,873 years left unaccounted for. Let’s say that this is how long God took to create the Earth.

As Science says that Humans in their present form appeared roughly 36,000 years ago, I will instead substitute in 6,127 years, giving evolution a bit of a leeway, in order to calculate the length of one “day” in God’s eyes.

Thus, a single “day” in God’s eyes, would be roughly equivalent to the modern human notion of 648,570,553 (rounded) years. OK.

So if a “day” is 648,570,553 years, and the Bible is at least “inspired” by God, as its inerrancy was thrown out the window with this exercise, then Methuselah, the oldest man in the Bible, with a recorded age of 969 years, was in reality, 229,389,676,037,805 years old (353,685 days multiplied by the “day” of 648,570,553 years).

Methuselah was roughly 229 trillion years old. That’s roughly 50,526 times as old as Earth. Wow. This is all hypothetical, as God has not really given me the years, but you get the point.

See how this logic has to work?

Again . . .

"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding"

-Job 38:4

 

[Split Rock]

Really, the issue of evolution comes down to whether or not you believe:

“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”

-2 Timothy 3:16-17

No, the issue of evolution comes down to whether or not you accept that science is the best tool to explain the natural world (and universe) around us. The choice you are making is to instead belief in a fallible interpretation of scripture written by fallible men, simply because it is the bible. A book meant to be a theological guide not a natural history guide.

To believe in evolution, one must believe in the survival in the fittest, and that death is necessary to create modern life. By affirming this, you deny Scripture when it says:

“Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned - To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.”
-Romans 5:12-14

Do organisms die today or not? Are there more organisms born than can be sustained by the environment or not? Is there or is there not competition between populations of organisms today? Its called reality.

As for those who propose the Day-Age theory of what they deem “Theistic Evolution,” let’s find out what a “day” roughly constitutes.

If Abraham was called at the age of 75, and my Lutheran Study Bible from CPH marks this call as c. 2091 BC (lets get rid of the c. so that we can hypothesize this math), then Abraham must have been born in 2166 BC.

....

Let’s put the “Scientific” age of the Earth at 4.54 Billion Years for the sake of Argument. Subtract 6,127 years from Adam to the present, (4,540,000,000-6127) and you get 4,539,993,873 years left unaccounted for. Let’s say that this is how long God took to create the Earth.

As Science says that Humans in their present form appeared roughly 36,000 years ago, I will instead substitute in 6,127 years, giving evolution a bit of a leeway, in order to calculate the length of one “day” in God’s eyes.

Thus, a single “day” in God’s eyes, would be roughly equivalent to the modern human notion of 648,570,553 (rounded) years. OK.

So if a “day” is 648,570,553 years, and the Bible is at least “inspired” by God, as its inerrancy was thrown out the window with this exercise, then Methuselah, the oldest man in the Bible, with a recorded age of 969 years, was in reality, 229,389,676,037,805 years old (353,685 days multiplied by the “day” of 648,570,553 years).

Methuselah was roughly 229 trillion years old. That’s roughly 50,526 times as old as Earth. Wow. This is all hypothetical, as God has not really given me the years, but you get the point.

This is a misrepresentation of what Day-agers believe. They see the word used for "day" (yom) in GEN 1 to be an indeterminate amount of time. Therefore it makes little sense to average it all out and claim that is what constitutes a "day" in GEN or even worse in other parts of the bible. In other contexts, "yom" does mean a 24 hr day.

See how this logic has to work?

See what how easy it is to knock down a straw man of your own making?